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re: Best MLB Manager
Posted on 8/14/09 at 9:22 pm to tubucoco
Posted on 8/14/09 at 9:22 pm to tubucoco
quote:thats not what i said cock gobbler. I just pointed out that he wasnt a great handler of egos.
so because he was a bad babysitter makes him a not so good manager?
ETA: and if you read my first fricking post in this thread youll see i have torre as the second best active manager
This post was edited on 8/14/09 at 9:23 pm
1
Posted on 8/14/09 at 9:23 pm to bwallcubfan
I would take Gardenhire, Jim Leyland, and Bobby Cox. I dont care that he didn't win but just 1 WS, he got them into playoffs as division winner 12 straight times.
Posted on 8/14/09 at 9:28 pm to Pilot Tiger
{cock gobbler} dude the insults aren't neccessary, I'm not dumpin you, I'm merely debating you about Torre not being able to coontrol the egos of certain players, he shouldn't have to do that, just manage his team, but when Shef, ARod and Giambe get out of control or don't perform up to their expectations, why does he have to take the hit for that?
cock gobbler.
cock gobbler.
Posted on 8/14/09 at 9:31 pm to tubucoco
quote:because hes the manager and the ultimate one responsible for how his team performs, especially with a $200+ million payroll.
why does he have to take the hit for that?
Posted on 8/14/09 at 10:05 pm to Pilot Tiger
Torre, Larussa, Cox, Scioscia, Leyland
Posted on 8/14/09 at 10:13 pm to Pilot Tiger
and so going back to what I said, he manages a team not babysits these guys to get them to perform, ridiculous, he got fired for ARod and Giambe both being incompetent in October, and that is not fair, plain and simple. next you'll be sayin he should have stepped in and batted for both.
This post was edited on 8/14/09 at 10:14 pm
Posted on 8/14/09 at 10:23 pm to tubucoco
Torre gets a slap in face because last years as a Yankee they had highest payroll and highest number of former all-stars and could do nothing.
Yet when Yankees were winning they were doing it with players who were not true superstars yet.
Overall he has continued to win during the regular season despite his flaws at handling a bullpen.
Any manager you look at close enough has flaws in their game plan, how they handle pitchers, defense, fundamentals, people can nitpick about anything with any coach.
Yet when Yankees were winning they were doing it with players who were not true superstars yet.
Overall he has continued to win during the regular season despite his flaws at handling a bullpen.
Any manager you look at close enough has flaws in their game plan, how they handle pitchers, defense, fundamentals, people can nitpick about anything with any coach.
Posted on 8/14/09 at 10:29 pm to tduecen
I agree with most of that, but the true sign of a good manager is taking a team with minimal talent and making them a winner, which is what he did with Jeter and co. early years. Steinbrenner and co. losing their minds like Jerry Jones and bringing in all these high priced vets, thus driving the cap thru the roof has nothing to do with Torre being a good manager.
This post was edited on 8/14/09 at 10:30 pm
Posted on 8/14/09 at 10:32 pm to tubucoco
Early years they had talent it was not minimal by any means.
David Cone
John Wettland
Tino Martinez
Scott Brosius/Wade Boggs
Jim Leyritz
Bernie Williams
Paul Oneill
Jimmy Key
Dwight Gooden
Kenny Rogers
Tim Raines
Daryl Strawberry
Ruber Sierra
lots of all-stars I see on that list
David Cone
John Wettland
Tino Martinez
Scott Brosius/Wade Boggs
Jim Leyritz
Bernie Williams
Paul Oneill
Jimmy Key
Dwight Gooden
Kenny Rogers
Tim Raines
Daryl Strawberry
Ruber Sierra
lots of all-stars I see on that list
Posted on 8/14/09 at 10:39 pm to tduecen
Cone and Gooden were more like role players then, and I'm not even sure about Raines and Straw being on those W Series teams, but all the rest weren't super duper players like your trying to make them out to be. Some past their prime, but still Torre made it all work and all of them come together, the situation with those "other" superstar players was a much different thing.
This post was edited on 8/14/09 at 10:40 pm
Posted on 8/14/09 at 10:47 pm to tubucoco
quote:
I'm not even sure about Raines and Straw being on those W Series teams
Learn you're Yankee history, they were on 96-98 Championships, also Cecil Fielder came along in 97.
quote:
Cone and Gooden were more like role players then
Cone a role player? He was one of our biggest assests to the team turning around.
96 when he was acquired 7-2 2.88 ERA
97 12-6 2.86 ERA
98 20-7 3.55 ERA
99 12-9 3.44 ERA
and 2000 is when he lost it at age of 37.
This post was edited on 8/14/09 at 10:49 pm
Posted on 8/14/09 at 10:47 pm to OH 58D
Joe Torre or Mike Soscia.
Posted on 8/14/09 at 10:50 pm to tduecen
alright duece,but you do know what i am trying to say about Torre, right?
Posted on 8/14/09 at 10:52 pm to tubucoco
He is a good manager, one of best active managers in the game today. While he has his flaws so does every manager. Anyone who wishes to use the talent argument against him, well every manager who has ever won had talent. You can not win without it, it is that simple.
Posted on 8/14/09 at 10:53 pm to Pilot Tiger
quote:
because hes the manager and the ultimate one responsible for how his team performs, especially with a $200+ million payroll.
Torre had DICK for a staff during that 2001-2007 era. Kevin Brown? Jaret Wright? Randy Johnson? Johnson was largely ineffective in his NY tenure. Carl Pavano? Mussina was good but jesus christ he can't carry a staff.
Posted on 8/14/09 at 11:01 pm to Srbtiger06
That shitty rotation those years also LARGELY contributed to his bullpen overwork. This was a bullpen that was also pretty shitty. He had VERY few effective relievers after the 00 and 01 teams. Did he overuse Proctor? Hell yeah but really he had no choice. When your head is always on the block like him you HAVE to try to win every game.
Posted on 8/14/09 at 11:05 pm to OH 58D
La Russa is the best imo. Year in, year out, the cardinals are a WS contender.
Posted on 8/14/09 at 11:08 pm to Srbtiger06
yeah, tha guy can only do so much.
Posted on 8/14/09 at 11:09 pm to Enfuego
LaRussa should have more rings if you know what I mean.
Posted on 8/14/09 at 11:10 pm to Srbtiger06
And we're going to throw Sciosia into this discussion POSSIBLY over Torre? Seriously?
Since 2000:
Scioscia
Wins: 1570
Losses: 871
Postseason Record: 16-20
AL Pennants: 1
WS Appearances: 1
WS Titles: 1
Torre
Wins: 1714
Losses: 597
Postseason Record: 45-41
AL Pennants: 3
WS Appearances: 3
WS Titles: 1
Better in EVERY category except WS titles and even then they're tied. All that in arguably the toughest division in baseball.
Since 2000:
Scioscia
Wins: 1570
Losses: 871
Postseason Record: 16-20
AL Pennants: 1
WS Appearances: 1
WS Titles: 1
Torre
Wins: 1714
Losses: 597
Postseason Record: 45-41
AL Pennants: 3
WS Appearances: 3
WS Titles: 1
Better in EVERY category except WS titles and even then they're tied. All that in arguably the toughest division in baseball.
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