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re: kobe 18 4th quarter points
Posted on 5/20/09 at 12:27 am to shel311
Posted on 5/20/09 at 12:27 am to shel311
do any of those stats contain plays made in the 3rd quarter to get your team back in it? plays made at the beginning of the 4th even? say if a player's team is down by 20 going into the 4th and he leads them with 15 points in 4 minutes to cut it to 4, is that counted in the clutchness stuff you posted?
clutchness can't be measured bc so much goes into it. lock down defensive possesions were bad shots are forced up, commanding double teams, making a pass, then that guy making a pass for a wide open layup are not counted. measuring clutchness can only be done to a degree.
clutchness can't be measured bc so much goes into it. lock down defensive possesions were bad shots are forced up, commanding double teams, making a pass, then that guy making a pass for a wide open layup are not counted. measuring clutchness can only be done to a degree.
1
Posted on 5/20/09 at 12:30 am to dutchdanish
quote:
Wow interesting sheets there. Don't see one for post season there, but dayamn I must say... Lebron.
Yea, I wish they had em for postseason as well.
Posted on 5/20/09 at 12:33 am to 2010LSU
quote:
do any of those stats contain plays made in the 3rd quarter to get your team back in it?
They have stats for the 3rd quarter overall, and Lebron was better.
quote:
plays made at the beginning of the 4th even?
Well, I posted stats for the entire 4th quarter, Lebron was better.
quote:
clutchness can't be measured bc so much goes into it
Some portions of it can't be measured, that is correct.
But you simply can't ignore just how much more dominant Lebron is in EVERY facet of the game in ALL 5 of those links.
Posted on 5/20/09 at 12:36 am to shel311
quote:
But you simply can't ignore just how much more dominant Lebron is in EVERY facet of the game in ALL 5 of those links.
no you can't, but you have to take them with a grain of salt. do you really want carmello shooting a last shot over lebron or kobe? i mean percentage wise he is superior, but no one is taking him 1st out of the three.
you also have to consider the team around them. like i said, if a player commands a double team, dishes it out into the paint, then that player dishes it for a wide open layup, that isn't counted. or if a player locks down their man for an entire quarter. or if a player makes passes that result in free throws.
lebron will be superior to just about everyone at every offensive stat because:
1. CLE runs everything thru him. he is the PG, he is the sole facilitator. carmello, billups, bryant, etc. don't have to do that.
2. he is bigger, faster, stronger. no one can matchup with him, thus he dominates at his role in 1.
This post was edited on 5/20/09 at 12:38 am
Posted on 5/20/09 at 12:40 am to 2010LSU
quote:
do you really want carmello shooting a last shot over lebron or kobe? i mean percentage wise he is superior, but no one is taking him 1st out of the three.
Let me ask this way, given that 5 years is a REALLY big sample size, why would you want Kobe taking that shot over Melo, considering 1 does it at like 27% and the other at 48%(or whatever it is.)
It's not like 1 flukie year, we're talking 5 seasons of Carmelo being MUCH better in that very situation. I think Kobe still gets credit for stuff he did a LONG time ago, but isn't nearly as good as it as he once was. Sure he is at times, but just not like he used to be.
quote:
. CLE runs everything thru him. he is the PG, he is the sole facilitator. carmello, billups, bryant, etc. don't have to do that
True, but if that is the case, I would argue that his FG% should be lower than Kobe's if his teammates are worse and he's commanding more attention. Yet, it's higher.
quote:
2. he is bigger, faster, stronger. no one can matchup with him, thus he dominates at his role in 1.
Right, which is why he is so good in those situations.
Posted on 5/20/09 at 12:47 am to shel311
quote:
Let me ask this way, given that 5 years is a REALLY big sample size, why would you want Kobe taking that shot over Melo, considering 1 does it at like 27% and the other at 48%(or whatever it is.)
bc you have no idea what goes into the sample size. maybe half of the shots melo took were layups off of a great pass from someone while playing the clippers? look at tonight for instance. carmelo disappeared in the 4th after a great game overall. billups, though statistically inferior percentage wise, gave the nuggs a 99-97 lead with one three and cut the lead to one with another. stats, while always reliable, can also be deceiving.
quote:
True, but if that is the case, I would argue that his FG% should be lower than Kobe's if his teammates are worse and he's commanding more attention. Yet, it's higher.
no one said his teammates are worse, but lebron does do more bc he is such a unique combo of skill and size. he has the best defensive team out of any of the those guys, and he has guys who consistently knock down open jumpers. while the lakers and nuggets hvae more streaky guys that can light u up, CLE has consistency. that is why lebron gets doubled so little during close games.
quote:
Right, which is why he is so good in those situations.
well yea. he has a better skill set/size combo than anyone in any sport. he should only improve his clutchness through time with improved outside shooting and free throws.
This post was edited on 5/20/09 at 12:49 am
Posted on 5/20/09 at 12:57 am to 2010LSU
quote:
bc you have no idea what goes into the sample size. maybe half of the shots melo took were layups off of a great pass from someone while playing the clippers?
I think the greater the sample size, the more likely this stuff averages out. I dont think such a HUGE difference in FG% can be explained by reasons like that with 5 years of sample size. Some of it, maybe but not that much.
quote:
that is why lebron gets doubled so little during close games
I don't know what games we're watching, but I see LEbron getting doubled more late in games than any other perimeter player in the game, bar none. He is simply unstoppable going to the rim 1 on 1, and i NEVER see teams give him 1 on 1 late in games.
quote:
he should only improve his clutchness through time with improved outside shooting and free throws
If he can get his FT% to 83 or 84% and continue to improve his jumps hot(Which improved a lot this year), the sky is the limit.
Posted on 5/20/09 at 1:03 am to shel311
people that hate on lebron's jumper are almost just hating now for the hell of it. he doesn't have a carmelo, kobe, ray allen type jumper, but he has one that 95% of the NBA would kill for. the only real problem with lebron's jumper is that he takes it too much.
free throws is primarily what holds this guy back from being the most dominate mother fricka on earth at all times, during all situations.
free throws is primarily what holds this guy back from being the most dominate mother fricka on earth at all times, during all situations.
Posted on 5/20/09 at 1:09 am to 2010LSU
quote:
free throws is primarily what holds this guy back from being the most dominate mother fricka on earth at all times, during all situations.
Yep, it'd be scary if he was shooting 85% or so from the line.
quote:
the only real problem with lebron's jumper is that he takes it too much.
I definitely agree with this. But in watching his 8 playoff games, it kinda made me wonder if he took more jump shots in the regular season just to save himself a bit from taking a beating.
Because once the playoffs started, I was seeing a completley different Lebron. Other than that 1 game where he went off from 3, he was looking to take it to the hole every single trip down the court, and is getting to the foul line MUCH more than he did in the regular season.
With this coming series with Howard in the middle, we'll see if Lebron is still attacking like he did in the 1st 2 series.
Posted on 5/20/09 at 1:22 am to shel311
she3llhaha all you do is throw out lebron and kobe stats to back up lebron. its like your life's mission.
Anyways awesome game kobe closing it out big win im going to say lakers in 6. I am very interested to see how lebron matches up with the magic. with rashard lewis on the outside, turkoglu with size and skill, and dwight howard at the rim they might have the recipe for success against the Cavs.
Anyways awesome game kobe closing it out big win im going to say lakers in 6. I am very interested to see how lebron matches up with the magic. with rashard lewis on the outside, turkoglu with size and skill, and dwight howard at the rim they might have the recipe for success against the Cavs.
Posted on 5/20/09 at 1:31 am to Lesticles08
turkadouche is too slow and goofy to even touch lebron. lewis has some decent length, but he's too soft.
their only hope is that howard's presence keeps lebron out of the lane, and lewis' length contests every lebron jumper
their only hope is that howard's presence keeps lebron out of the lane, and lewis' length contests every lebron jumper
Posted on 5/20/09 at 1:56 am to Lesticles08
quote:
she3llhaha all you do is throw out lebron and kobe stats to back up lebron. its like your life's mission.
you have 12 posts, and 11 of them are devoted to this topic, so...
Posted on 5/20/09 at 1:57 am to 2010LSU
quote:
their only hope is that howard's presence keeps lebron out of the lane, and lewis' length contests every lebron jumper
Yea, though they are pretty good with rotations and help D, so that could benefit them if they have to double Lebron.
I could be wrong, but I can see Howard getting into foul trouble in a couple of games due to Lebron going hard to the rim, and the refs favoring Lebron and him getting a few of those in between calls that could go either way.
Posted on 5/20/09 at 2:01 am to shel311
this series is tough bc both teams are primarily jump shooting teams. you have the stars that will get theirs regardless in lebron and dwight, but other than that, it is who makes shots. CLE has great team defense, and ORL has great team offense, but great offense always beats great defense. the winner of this series will be the team that shoots the best from the perimeter. that's why i look for guys like west/williams and turkalo/lewis to be the key in the series.
Posted on 5/20/09 at 10:30 pm to shel311
quote:
IF I showed you ALL those stats but just put PLayer A and Player B, you're gonna tell me you'd take Kobe's stats in the clutch???
Posted on 5/20/09 at 10:35 pm to 2010LSU
Kobe 
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