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Started By
Message
re: Playoff Bill set to go to the House
Posted on 12/9/09 at 1:10 pm to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 12/9/09 at 1:10 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
there is no monopoly
shite schools can join BCS conferences if they work at it
this is the BCS national championship
will this law make the AP poll illegal also?
More correctly, it's an oligopoly.
No they cannot, you dumbfrick.
It's the BCS MYTHICAL national championship.
No, but a championship bracket would make it obsolete, just as one isn't necessary in college basketball or baseball.
Please don't breed.
2
Posted on 12/9/09 at 1:11 pm to Baloo
quote:
Talk about restraint of trade
They are not restraining trade. Any one in those leagues is free to sell his skills to anyone else outside of those leagues. Saying the NBA is restraining trade is like saying a particular firm restrains trade because it hires associates and assigns them to a particular department and doesn't allow the departments to bid against each other. Oh and these leagues have unions that AGREED to the drafts in the current forms.
This post was edited on 12/9/09 at 1:14 pm
Posted on 12/9/09 at 1:11 pm to etm512
Still waiting for someone to argue against this:
quote:
Easy solution: have all the other conferences join up and have a game and call it the "Non-BCS National Championship". I mean if EVERYONE is so hard up on seeing these teams compete, then this should bring in all kinds of money and eliminate the bitching, right?
Posted on 12/9/09 at 1:12 pm to TIGERSandFROGS
quote:
No they cannot, you dumbfrick.
yes they can. it happened when the ACC expanded
the MWC is THIS close to becoming a BCS conference
quote:
It's the BCS MYTHICAL national championship.
no, it's the BCS national championship
quote:
No, but a championship bracket would make it obsolete,
meh. BCS > Playoffs
Posted on 12/9/09 at 1:12 pm to Baloo
quote:
Ummm.... you didn't take much antitrust law in law school, did you? The BCS conference by definition limit participation in a market, which raises lots of Sherman Act questions. The idea that "we're not a monopoly because we absorb the competition" is, um, er, illegal. That's what Ma Bell did. And when was the last time a BCS conference added a team from a non-BCS conference? Arguably South Carolina when the SEC expanded. But the "BCS cartel" was created AFTER they joined. No non-BCS team has been added since the invention of the BCS. Your argument, aside from being legally wrong, is also factually unsupported.
Agree with all of your points regarding Sherman anti-trust, but wanted to correct that the last time BCS teams were added was when the ACC raided the Big East, and the Big East raided CUSA.
Posted on 12/9/09 at 1:13 pm to TIGERSandFROGS
quote:
It's the BCS MYTHICAL national championship.
so Texas and Alabama aren't going to play and the winner isn't going to awarded a crystal football trophy? That's a myth?
No where have I seen championship defined as having to win multiple, extra games played after the completion of a season.
Posted on 12/9/09 at 1:16 pm to H-Town Tiger
Nondrafted college players are not members of the union. The union agreed to the draft (why wouldn't they, it doesn't affect their memebership?) The draft trampels the rights of those who were not party to the CBA.
And it's nothing like getting assigned to a different department. The NFL is made up of 32 teams, which are all owned separately. Fed Ex can't draft you and make you work for DHL. If you wish to play professional sports in this country, you have no say in where you get to play your trade and you have no bargaining leverage as you can only negotiate with the team that drafted you.
Your freedom of contract has been horribly infringed upon. But no one cares, really, as we do it out of "competitive balance". In fact, we hate when there is an actual free market in sports (witness people bitching about baseball). When it comes to sports, Americans are no good dirty Commies.
And it's nothing like getting assigned to a different department. The NFL is made up of 32 teams, which are all owned separately. Fed Ex can't draft you and make you work for DHL. If you wish to play professional sports in this country, you have no say in where you get to play your trade and you have no bargaining leverage as you can only negotiate with the team that drafted you.
Your freedom of contract has been horribly infringed upon. But no one cares, really, as we do it out of "competitive balance". In fact, we hate when there is an actual free market in sports (witness people bitching about baseball). When it comes to sports, Americans are no good dirty Commies.
Posted on 12/9/09 at 1:16 pm to etm512
quote:
Still waiting for someone to argue against this:
quote:
Easy solution: have all the other conferences join up and have a game and call it the "Non-BCS National Championship". I mean if EVERYONE is so hard up on seeing these teams compete, then this should bring in all kinds of money and eliminate the bitching, right?
Glad you wanted to show us again that you know nothing about how anti-trust works. Purely by it's nature, something that enjoys a monopoly will be able to outcompete any competitors. Them breaking off will only marginalize them and reduce their exposure.
As it is now, do you think that big BCS schools would be enjoying the success they have if not for the BCS? shite, BCS coaches practically admit to the monopoly every time they recruit against a non-BCS school by saying "you'll never even have a shot at playing for a national championship there".
Posted on 12/9/09 at 1:19 pm to TIGERSandFROGS
I'm gonna take a wild guess and say there are two antitrust lawyers on this thread.
Posted on 12/9/09 at 1:21 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
but the BCS lets the non-BCS into the money pool. hell the best non-BCS teams have an easier road and easier access to BCS money than an average BCS team. and this is even stronger now with BSU being rewarded for playing a 1AA team
Maybe some of the big BCS schools should man up and accept their offer to play anyone, anywhere, anytime for no compensation. Oh I know why, because then they can't knock BSU by saying they don't play anyone.
Non-BCS schools get about 1/4th the payout that BCS schools do, so your money argument is probably even stupider than all of your other ones.
Posted on 12/9/09 at 1:22 pm to Baloo
quote:
The idea that "we're not a monopoly because we absorb the competition" is, um, er, illegal
so if I want to open a McDonalds do they have to let me or they are violating Anti-trust law?
Besides just because something is "illegal" doesn't make it necessarily bad. And just because Congress passes a law that they say is "protecting" the marketplace, doesn't mean they are.
In any event What exactly is preventing the non-BCS conference from setting up a playoff system involving the MWC, WAC, CUSA, MAC, Sun Belt, etc as a competing National Championship?
Posted on 12/9/09 at 1:23 pm to Baloo
quote:
I'm gonna take a wild guess and say there are two antitrust lawyers on this thread.
Haha, no I'm not but that is an immense compliment and thank you for it.
I'm going to be a physician, but I read a lot of law because I probably should've been a lawyer.
Posted on 12/9/09 at 1:23 pm to Baloo
I was under the assumption that the NBA and NFL had antitrust exemptions similar to what baseball has. Is that correct?
And from talking to friends of mine who deal with antitrust issues, I've argued for years that non-BCS schools should attack the BCS from an antitrust angle.
And from talking to friends of mine who deal with antitrust issues, I've argued for years that non-BCS schools should attack the BCS from an antitrust angle.
Posted on 12/9/09 at 1:25 pm to TIGERSandFROGS
[quote]Glad you wanted to show us again that you know nothing about how anti-trust works. Purely by it's nature, something that enjoys a monopoly will be able to outcompete any competitors. Them breaking off will only marginalize them and reduce their exposure. [quote]
Not if their product was equal to that of the "competition". If it was then they could start their own little Non-BCS title game. Then, since they "deserve" to be in the same league because they are just as good, then everyone would tune in to watch because the product that they are selling (good football) would be there. Right?
Not if their product was equal to that of the "competition". If it was then they could start their own little Non-BCS title game. Then, since they "deserve" to be in the same league because they are just as good, then everyone would tune in to watch because the product that they are selling (good football) would be there. Right?
This post was edited on 12/9/09 at 1:27 pm
Posted on 12/9/09 at 1:25 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
so Texas and Alabama aren't going to play and the winner isn't going to awarded a crystal football trophy? That's a myth?
No where have I seen championship defined as having to win multiple, extra games played after the completion of a season.
The crystal football is AFCA Coaches Poll Trophy. It is not a mythical trophy, but this system is only slightly better than a system in which teams won championships by going undefeated and playing in a random bowl against random competition, as BYU did in their 1984 championship.
Posted on 12/9/09 at 1:27 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
so if I want to open a McDonalds do they have to let me or they are violating Anti-trust law?
That argument hurts the pro-BCS cause more than any other, as it admits that the BCS is a particular brand within I-A football...
quote:
Besides just because something is "illegal" doesn't make it necessarily bad.
Please name something illegal that is good.
quote:
And just because Congress passes a law that they say is "protecting" the marketplace, doesn't mean they are.
Please cite an example. BTW, do you even know what this bill is about?
quote:
In any event What exactly is preventing the non-BCS conference from setting up a playoff system involving the MWC, WAC, CUSA, MAC, Sun Belt, etc as a competing National Championship?
You mean essentially forfeiting all of the rights and privileges of being a member of Division I-A?
Posted on 12/9/09 at 1:29 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
but none carry the weight of the AP poll
the BCS is just another title given out every year
Then let them declare it the ACC/Big 10/Big 12/Big East/PAC 10/SEC inter-conference championship, because it's not a national championship.
Posted on 12/9/09 at 1:29 pm to Sophandros
Technically, only the MLB has an antitrust exemption. But the NFL sort of has one, that the courts apply when they want to. You can form a rival league and file an antitrust suit (See the USFL), but you probably can't sue the NFL and win if you're the Players Union on antitrust grounds. Sports antitrust is really friggin wierd. It makes no logical sense and it's just a mishmash of decisions on how the judge felt that day.
As for the McDonald's argument... um, the argument is that McDonald's can frnachise itself and owns the intellectual property of McD's. You can't infirnge on that. However, you CAN open a rival burger shop. The market CANNOT be "McDonald's" but it can be "fast food hamburger joints in a specific area".
And I have made no moral arguments about the evil of monopolies. I've just talked about the law. I'm not judging right or wrong. Different argument. I'm only saying whether it IS a monopoly, not whether that is bad.
As for the McDonald's argument... um, the argument is that McDonald's can frnachise itself and owns the intellectual property of McD's. You can't infirnge on that. However, you CAN open a rival burger shop. The market CANNOT be "McDonald's" but it can be "fast food hamburger joints in a specific area".
And I have made no moral arguments about the evil of monopolies. I've just talked about the law. I'm not judging right or wrong. Different argument. I'm only saying whether it IS a monopoly, not whether that is bad.
Posted on 12/9/09 at 1:30 pm to Baloo
quote:
Nondrafted college players are not members of the union.
Either is anyone before they go work for a union shop, but aren't they forced to join the union?
quote:
The NFL is made up of 32 teams, which are all owned separately. Fed Ex can't draft you and make you work for DHL.
Fed Ex and DHL are stand alone companies, the Dalls Cowboys are not. They are worthless without other NFL teams to play games against. Sports teams are franchises. If you work for McDonlads, they can tell you want store to work at, sports is not different.
quote:
If you wish to play professional sports in this country, you have no say in where you get to play your trade
This is false. If you don't like the NFL's rules, don't play there, jsut because they pay way more doesn't mean they have fewer rights.
.
quote:
When it comes to sports, Americans are no good dirty Commies
spare the hyperbole, I know you are smart enough to understand that private business making agreements is not the same as government control of production. If it was a law passed by congress that mandated the draft, then its socialism, if the 30 franchise owners and the union aregg to have a draft, its a private agreement.
Posted on 12/9/09 at 1:34 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
there is a reason they've never tried
CFB funds the athletic departments of just about every major university. it is the cash cow
Are you trying to argue that the BCS is in violation of anti-trust laws, because you just stated that the money schools gain from it directly bolsters universities involved, while others don't get that money...
I'm starting to think that you are a person in a public library wearing a tin-foil hat so the security cameras won't see your thoughts.
Edit: to fix words left out that made a sentence nonsensical.
This post was edited on 12/9/09 at 1:42 pm
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