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Started By
Message
re: This SB loss did NOTHING to affect Manning's legacy in a negative way
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:31 am to ballscaster
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:31 am to ballscaster
quote:
Does that reduce the amount of Pro Bowl appearances he made?
No. But had you ever heard of Ken Anderson before I brought him up just now? If so, you are one of a few.
quote:
You're wrong. Your argument is complete nonsense.
No, I'm right. Don't believe me? Conduct a social experiment. Ask random people on the street if they know who Jim Kelly is, then ask them if they know who Joe Montana is.
I guarantee you the vast majority of people will identify the 4-0 Super Bowl QB Joe Montana over the 0-4 Super Bowl QB Jim Kelly.
2
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:31 am to beauchristopher
quote:
yup.
don't see how they don't see it further proves peyton (MR.MVP) has a not so reflective playoff record..
and yes Manning is great, may be the best.. he had a great chance to really secure that tonight or further head into that direction, but he hurt his legacy a little.. believe as you wish tho.. what defines peyton manning?
How? If its about Superbowls he needs 5 more to pass Chuck Haley to become the best football player ever.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:31 am to Melvin
quote:Doesn't matter.
yeah you're right. This game will never be talked about negatively when discussing Manning's legacy.
quote:"You don't get it" isn't my argument. I already made my argument. You don't get it (the argument).
Keep saying I don't get it though. It's a solid argument.
Two weeks ago Manning qualified for the Super Bowl. That put him one more notch, regardless of how big or small that notch is, higher than he was before. After tonight's loss, he doesn't go down a notch since, win or lose, he still got to the "I got to the Super Bowl" notch. At worst, he stays right where he is. A win, of course, would have boosted him significantly higher, but this loss does not slide him lower.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:33 am to beauchristopher
quote:Whose legacy was hurt more tonight--Peyton Manning or, say, Ben Roethlisberger?
don't see how they don't see it further proves peyton (MR.MVP) has a not so reflective playoff record..
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:34 am to ballscaster
quote:
Doesn't matter.
If we're discussing whether or not Manning is a Top 5 QB it doesn't matter. But if we are discussing whether or not Peyton Manning is #1 all-time, it matters quite a bit.
quote:
Two weeks ago Manning qualified for the Super Bowl. That put him one more notch, regardless of how big or small that notch is, higher than he was before.
In your eyes, perhaps, but not in the eyes of the majority of the sports world. After the season Manning had this year he was EXPECTED to get to the Super Bowl this year. When you're trying to separate yourself from the Top 5 QBs to ever play the game, it isn't so much about making it to the championship game anymore. It's all about WINNING said game.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:36 am to RollTide1987
quote:I had, but it's irrelevant. We aren't talking about Ken Anderson. His name has never been in the record books as often as Manning's, and virtually no one has argued that they are on the same tier.
No. But had you ever heard of Ken Anderson before I brought him up just now? If so, you are one of a few.
quote:This has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
No, I'm right. Don't believe me? Conduct a social experiment. Ask random people on the street if they know who Jim Kelly is, then ask them if they know who Joe Montana is.
No, I'm right. Don't believe me? Conduct a social experiment. Ask random people on the street if they know who Jim Kelly is, then ask them if they know who Joe Montana is.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:37 am to RollTide1987
Since 1999 (when the Colts got good), Peyton Manning's record as a starting quarterback is 49-43 (53%) against teams who finished the season with a winning record.
Obviously, it is a team game. But maybe the fact that Peyton Manning has a mediocre playoff record wouldn't surprise people as much if they knew that his regular season record against above average teams isn't that spectacular either.
Obviously, it is a team game. But maybe the fact that Peyton Manning has a mediocre playoff record wouldn't surprise people as much if they knew that his regular season record against above average teams isn't that spectacular either.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:39 am to RollTide1987
quote:In that a win would enhance the argument that he is #1, yes, it matters, but you cannot argue that tonight's loss pushed him any further from #1 than he was the minute he qualified for SBXLVIII. The win two weeks ago made him an AFC Champion; after the loss tonight, he's still an AFC Champion.
But if we are discussing whether or not Peyton Manning is #1 all-time, it matters quite a bit.
quote:It's not up for a vote.
In your eyes, perhaps, but not in the eyes of the majority of the sports world.
quote:Irrelevant.
After the season Manning had this year he was EXPECTED to get to the Super Bowl this year.
quote:Also not what we're talking about. Obviously tonight's loss did not bring him any closer to #1, and equally obviously, tonight's loss did not push him any further.
When you're trying to separate yourself from the Top 5 QBs to ever play the game, it isn't so much about making it to the championship game anymore. It's all about WINNING said game.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:45 am to ballscaster
So if part of my criteria for judging a quarterback's legacy is their performance in big games, I'm a moron for letting his performance tonight affect my view on that subject?
Obviously, it's just a small part of a big puzzle, but it can't count for something?
You seem to be a bit stubborn on this. Like I said, making the Super Bowl is a big accomplishment, and he played well in some big games this season to get his team there, but in a very big game tonight he was very poor. I'm not willing to completely throw that out the window.
Nothing he did tonight will make me say he isn't a top 5 quarterback of all-time, but I can understand people feeling like he may have taken a small step back in terms of the GOAT argument.
Obviously, it's just a small part of a big puzzle, but it can't count for something?
You seem to be a bit stubborn on this. Like I said, making the Super Bowl is a big accomplishment, and he played well in some big games this season to get his team there, but in a very big game tonight he was very poor. I'm not willing to completely throw that out the window.
Nothing he did tonight will make me say he isn't a top 5 quarterback of all-time, but I can understand people feeling like he may have taken a small step back in terms of the GOAT argument.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:55 am to BayouBengals03
quote:
So if part of my criteria for judging a quarterback's legacy is their performance in big games, I'm a moron for letting his performance tonight affect my view on that subject?
Are Super Bowls the only games that qualify as big?
quote:
Obviously, it's just a small part of a big puzzle, but it can't count for something?
It must be a huge big part of the puzzle if it makes up for the massive disparity of Peyton's individual performance in "non big games" vs every other QB.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:59 am to hikingfan
Big Ben >>>>> Peyton Manning
Posted on 2/3/14 at 1:02 am to VerlanderBEAST
quote:
Are Super Bowls the only games that qualify as big?
No, as I said in my post.
quote:
It must be a huge big part of the puzzle if it makes up for the massive disparity of Peyton's individual performance in "non big games" vs every other QB.
I'm not comparing Peyton to every other quarterback. I'm comparing him to every other elite quarterback.
And like I posted, he's 49-43 since 1999 in games against teams who finished the season with a winning record. Is it that surprising that his playoff record isn't that great either?
Posted on 2/3/14 at 1:04 am to SabiDojo
Justin Tuck>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bruce Smith.
Ringz and Supabowl stats YO!!!!!
Ringz and Supabowl stats YO!!!!!
Posted on 2/3/14 at 1:06 am to VerlanderBEAST
Gus Frerrotte >>>>> Peyton Manning
Posted on 2/3/14 at 1:08 am to BayouBengals03
The people in this thread who get it...get it.
I don't pretend to fully understand Manning's lack of the it...but it's there.
Manning face is more than a joke on the internet. Sadly, it's a legacy as well. That defines him to a degree...and I stress, to a degree.
But it's real. It can't be ignored or brushed off.
As Prime Time said: "Manning gets all the praise in the world during the regular season because it's his offense and he calls the plays and he runs the show and he makes the decisions."
"And then suddenly in the post-season, the media say's...not his fault, his team sucks."
Probably in the 70's/80's this holds water...but not today when the QB controls so much...and how friendly the rules are to him and his targets.
Manning didn't die valiantly tonight...for a guy who supposedly outthinks his opponents, he got outthunk and outplayed.
Magic, Gretzky, Jordan...it matters what you do when it matters.
If 4/5 guys in a room wouldn't pick Manning as their go to guy in the most important game...that is legacy.
This doesn't mean that Qbs who won multiple Super Bowls - but were medicore - are better than Manning.
This is about elite of the elite comparison.
Even before this game, I'd never choose Manning as my go to guy.
There is something amiss with him. I know he cares...but he's not out to prove anything...and it shows in the big games. He grew up Archie's son - adored. What does he have to prove?
I sincerely believe, as great as he his and as smart mentally as he is, Manning isn't tough mentally.
I don't pretend to fully understand Manning's lack of the it...but it's there.
Manning face is more than a joke on the internet. Sadly, it's a legacy as well. That defines him to a degree...and I stress, to a degree.
But it's real. It can't be ignored or brushed off.
As Prime Time said: "Manning gets all the praise in the world during the regular season because it's his offense and he calls the plays and he runs the show and he makes the decisions."
"And then suddenly in the post-season, the media say's...not his fault, his team sucks."
Probably in the 70's/80's this holds water...but not today when the QB controls so much...and how friendly the rules are to him and his targets.
Manning didn't die valiantly tonight...for a guy who supposedly outthinks his opponents, he got outthunk and outplayed.
Magic, Gretzky, Jordan...it matters what you do when it matters.
If 4/5 guys in a room wouldn't pick Manning as their go to guy in the most important game...that is legacy.
This doesn't mean that Qbs who won multiple Super Bowls - but were medicore - are better than Manning.
This is about elite of the elite comparison.
Even before this game, I'd never choose Manning as my go to guy.
There is something amiss with him. I know he cares...but he's not out to prove anything...and it shows in the big games. He grew up Archie's son - adored. What does he have to prove?
I sincerely believe, as great as he his and as smart mentally as he is, Manning isn't tough mentally.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 1:12 am to Zamoro10
quote:
Manning didn't die valiantly tonight...for a guy who supposedly outthinks his opponents, he got outthunk and outplayed.
I still can't get over the audible on the first play of the game. It's the first play of the game. Shouldn't that be scripted?
quote:
This doesn't mean that Qbs who won multiple Super Bowls - but were medicore - are better than Manning.
This is about elite of the elite comparison.
Exactly. I'm not comparing him to every other quarterback. I'm comparing him to the elite quarterbacks in history.
quote:
Even before this game, I'd never choose Manning as my go to guy
Same.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 1:21 am to BayouBengals03
quote:
No, as I said in my post.
So what games qualify as big?
quote:
I'm not comparing Peyton to every other quarterback. I'm comparing him to every other elite quarterback.
Thew difference between every other elite QB's individual performance in whatever you consider non big games vs Peyton's is greater than the difference between who ever you consider the greatest big game performance QB and Peyton's
quote:
And like I posted, he's 49-43 since 1999 in games against teams who finished the season with a winning record. Is it that surprising that his playoff record isn't that great either?
I fail to see the correlation? The Giants for example have a horrible record vs winning teams but a great playoff record. Also no one over an extended period of time is going to have a great record vs winning teams
Posted on 2/3/14 at 1:33 am to Zamoro10
quote:
Zamoro10
Posted on 2/3/14 at 6:58 am to LL012697
I can't believe how many people refuse to acknowledge that part if Manning's legacy most certainly is a list of high profile chokes dating back to 0-4 vs Florida in college. If course he's had one if the greatest careers ever. But pretending that choking isn't a significant part if his legacy is just silly.
And Damn, it's been repeated over a long period of time. Some of u sound like the fans who still were making offensive line excuses for JJ during his senior year.
And Damn, it's been repeated over a long period of time. Some of u sound like the fans who still were making offensive line excuses for JJ during his senior year.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 7:00 am to SettleDown
He's a choker, always has been. Loved seeing him get his brains beat in last night.
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