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re: When watching Barry Sanders' highlights, how does one justify a better RB than him?
Posted on 7/22/17 at 10:40 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
Posted on 7/22/17 at 10:40 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
That's the point and as running backs dominating their peers, no running back in the 97 year history of the NFL dominated his generational peers in the running back position so thoroughly consistently than one James Nathaniel Brown during his era, there'd be seasons where he outgained the runnerups in league rushing by 800+ yards. The context is three yards and a cloud of dust, run to establish the pass mainly where everyone ran more and this dude was still clowning everyone to a massive extent! You talk about transcending eras, this dude was a GOLIATH with the primitive conditioning, medical and strength programs of the 1950s-1960s and could run around, past and through tacklers, his 22 year old self could probably play and thrive today in the NFL. Another point edgewise, he was durable and a hard worker like all the great running backs in not taking a down off and probably one of the fastest players ever. People talk about Randy Moss being the original freak, Jim Brown was the GODFATHER OF FREAKS with a better work ethic. Mic dropped.
This post was edited on 7/22/17 at 10:42 pm
1
Posted on 7/22/17 at 10:55 pm to ThePTExperience1969
quote:
That's the point and as running backs dominating their peers, no running back in the 97 year history of the NFL dominated his generational peers in the running back position so thoroughly consistently than one James Nathaniel Brown during his era
No shite...and I pointed out a lot of the reasons why he dominated his peers so much.
NFL wasn't officially segregated like Southern football but there were some quota's of only one black player per team.
It's never been more difficult to dominate in the NFL than it is today based on all-access for everyone - even players from around the globe...increase in population size...more competition.
Posted on 7/22/17 at 11:08 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
Well Adrian Peterson sure dominated fools in 2012 off the ACL tear by a factor of 400 yards that season and Megatron with his record year that same season by a factor of 300 yards so achieving such feats are possible but sustaining that dominance is difficult because yes the competition like in all sports has improved significantly with the evolution of everything I've articulated earlier. We can't change the circumstances of Jim Brown but if what was there was the curve then then he obliterated that curve big time therefore he was the greatest, I've already provided the definition for greatest but I don't think we'll likely see a player accomplish such longevity in domination against this modern competition because that curve has significantly risen.
Posted on 7/23/17 at 12:12 am to sms151t
quote:
Sanders is not even best 20 to play RB in Detroit
This statement is just ridiculous. Can you please back up your position with facts on why Billy Sims was even in the same league as Sanders?
Sims was obviously injury prone but if we take the games he played in and normalize just those games to a 16 game season, he'd average 1360 rushing yards a year and 11 TDs on 4.5 yards/carry. Hell, even if you took his first two years in the league (30 games), when he was at his best, you get 1461 rushing yards and 14 TDs on 4.57 yards/carry.
Over a 10 YEAR career, Sanders average 1525 yards and 10 TDs on 5.0 yards/carry. Sure, Sims was a more prolific receiver, but to the tune of only 19 yards/game. Sims also fumbled 40 times in 60 games...Sanders, 41 in 153 games.
So on the whole, Sims had approximately 30 games in a career that were close to the averages Sanders put up over 150+ games. He was a hell of a lot better though at coughing up the football.
Posted on 7/23/17 at 12:27 am to ChiSaint
1. Sims was better all around player and bigger and faster.
2. Sims had a way worse Team offensively around him. The knee injury crushed him. If you remember his QB was Danielskn and Hipple. His HC was Monte Clark which was even worse than Moeller.
3. You can't just use stats to judge them. But I'm sure we've spent whole thread defending Barry but bashing Emmit and others based off stats.
2. Sims had a way worse Team offensively around him. The knee injury crushed him. If you remember his QB was Danielskn and Hipple. His HC was Monte Clark which was even worse than Moeller.
3. You can't just use stats to judge them. But I'm sure we've spent whole thread defending Barry but bashing Emmit and others based off stats.
This post was edited on 7/23/17 at 12:31 am
Posted on 7/23/17 at 12:29 am to ChiSaint
Barry Sanders is a better running back than Billy Sims period, the numbers and accolades prove that immensely this dude's worse than Skip Bayless he just makes this statement and supplements it with NOTHING. Complete joke.
Posted on 7/23/17 at 12:32 am to ThePTExperience1969
Umm no he wasn't
You can't use stats only. Watch Billy and put him in a Run n Shoot he does better. I mean you have you even watched Sims or just gone off stats?
Billy Sims won a Heisman in a Wishbone that tells you how explosive he was.
Go look at his surrounding cast in Detroit and how bad they were before and after him.
You count the 3 years full he played he was at 1300 yds with that god awful offense in 82 was a strike and he hurt his knee in early part 5th year
You can't use stats only. Watch Billy and put him in a Run n Shoot he does better. I mean you have you even watched Sims or just gone off stats?
Billy Sims won a Heisman in a Wishbone that tells you how explosive he was.
Go look at his surrounding cast in Detroit and how bad they were before and after him.
You count the 3 years full he played he was at 1300 yds with that god awful offense in 82 was a strike and he hurt his knee in early part 5th year
This post was edited on 7/23/17 at 12:38 am
Posted on 7/23/17 at 12:40 am to sms151t
How many times was Billy Sims first-team all-pro? How many times was Barry Sanders first-team all-pro ie voted as one of the two best running backs in the entire league of 32 starting running backs? Barry didn't get hurt much, Barry had longevity, Barry helped his team to an NFC title game, Barry had a 5.0 average that Billy didn't have, Barry scored TDs at a higher rate than Billy, the objective of offensive football is to score and be efficient and Barry exceeds Billy in both those, plus he made spectacular plays. This argument is just silly.
Posted on 7/23/17 at 12:47 am to ThePTExperience1969
Never said Sims had better career said he was the better RB. Maybe you should watch Sims and not use your Smith argument vs Sanders with Sims vs Sanders.
Again context you claim to use is lacking.
Again context you claim to use is lacking.
This post was edited on 7/23/17 at 12:50 am
Posted on 7/23/17 at 12:52 am to ThePTExperience1969
Barry had:
25 150+ rushing yard games
26 7.0+ YPC games
21 multi-TD games
7 30+ carry games
153 games played
Emmitt had:
18 150+ rushing yard games
12 7.0+ YPC games
36 multi-TD games
14 30+ carry games
226 games played
Billy Sims:
6 150+ rushing yard games
3 7.0+ YPC games
8 multi-TD games
2 30+ carry games
60 games played
25 150+ rushing yard games
26 7.0+ YPC games
21 multi-TD games
7 30+ carry games
153 games played
Emmitt had:
18 150+ rushing yard games
12 7.0+ YPC games
36 multi-TD games
14 30+ carry games
226 games played
Billy Sims:
6 150+ rushing yard games
3 7.0+ YPC games
8 multi-TD games
2 30+ carry games
60 games played
This post was edited on 7/23/17 at 12:58 am
Posted on 7/23/17 at 12:57 am to sms151t
I've seen clips of both and they were talented for sure but to be considered the better running back that requires talent does it not? I'm not totally sure but I assume Sims was faster than Barry, Barry was arguably the quickest, most elusive running back the league has ever seen in its 97 year history and played the position better longer than Billy Sims so that offsets and surpasses in the quality department. I just expressed the actual definition of "better running back" bc this isn't the better athlete argument and Barry played the position of RUNNING BACK BETTER THAN Billy Sims. Case closed this isn't difficult.
Posted on 7/23/17 at 1:01 am to sms151t
I just indicated that Barry Sanders in his first five seasons was voted 1 of the 2 BEST RUNNING BACKS in the NFL more than Billy Sims was in his five seasons ie first-team all-pro honors dude just accept your argument loss and move on, you're embarrassing yourself.
Posted on 7/23/17 at 1:08 am to ThePTExperience1969
it's hard to say. I can't find any actual numbers for Billy Sims, but Barry was a physical freak
Barry's combine numbers:
5'8"
200 lbs
40- 4.39
Vert - 41.5" (still the highest vert for a RB [tied with current Saint Daniel Lasco])
Barry's combine numbers:
5'8"
200 lbs
40- 4.39
Vert - 41.5" (still the highest vert for a RB [tied with current Saint Daniel Lasco])
Posted on 7/23/17 at 1:12 am to ThePTExperience1969
You really are an idiot aren't you?
I don't know how to say this clearer. Sanders had a better team better offense for his style. Sims was a better RB. Put Sims in that offense and see what he does... sanders faced less people in box due to formations. Sims was a victim of being in Detroit and being hurt and having a strike shorten his career. Sanders had the better career, but Sims was the better back. I don't get you. You argued for 10 pages using Sanders wasn't as good as Smith using the same fricking argument you're using vs Sims.
Context and learn offensive football and realize that not everything can be based off a stat sheet.
Do you know why the Run n Shoot motioned and why they veered instead of arched
I don't know how to say this clearer. Sanders had a better team better offense for his style. Sims was a better RB. Put Sims in that offense and see what he does... sanders faced less people in box due to formations. Sims was a victim of being in Detroit and being hurt and having a strike shorten his career. Sanders had the better career, but Sims was the better back. I don't get you. You argued for 10 pages using Sanders wasn't as good as Smith using the same fricking argument you're using vs Sims.
Context and learn offensive football and realize that not everything can be based off a stat sheet.
Do you know why the Run n Shoot motioned and why they veered instead of arched
This post was edited on 7/23/17 at 1:16 am
Posted on 7/23/17 at 1:16 am to sms151t
How can someone be the better back when they didn't have the better career? Explain me that, I know it's unfair since Barry did play longer but in those respective 5 year periods, it's indisputable Barry had the better 5 years so had his career ended in 1994 his career would already be superior to Billy Sims' AND he helped lead the Lions to the NFC title game during that run.
Posted on 7/23/17 at 1:20 am to ThePTExperience1969
quote:
How can someone be the better back when they didn't have the better career?
Really??? So Bettis is better than Brown? Gore is better than Dorsett?
You need to go watch these guys play games and rejoin the conversation
This post was edited on 7/23/17 at 1:31 am
Posted on 7/23/17 at 7:10 am to ChiSaint
quote:
Sims also fumbled 40 times in 60 games
YOU NEED TO ACTUALLY WATCH SIMS!
Posted on 7/23/17 at 9:53 am to Paul Allen
He was a one trick pony. The greatest rb in NFL history IN THE OPEN FIELD. Detroit's offense was perfect for his running style. Other than that what was he? He lost more yards behind the line of scrimmage than any rb maybe in NFL history. He was a terrible blocker and receiver which is why he came out on 3rd downs. He even came out when Detroit was in the red zone.
If watching highlight runs is the measurement for what makes a great rb, then I guess Sanders is the greatest, but there is more to being a truly great all around rb than just the highlights.
If watching highlight runs is the measurement for what makes a great rb, then I guess Sanders is the greatest, but there is more to being a truly great all around rb than just the highlights.
Posted on 7/23/17 at 10:00 am to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
Emmitt Smith's oline was GREAT? How many of them are in the NFL Hall of Fame? ONE! That is Larry Allen and he came to the Cowboys in 1994 after Emmitt Smith had won three rushing titles behind a bunch of Plan B free agents and later draft picks.
Oh yeah, Barry Sanders had a very good oline as well. Kevin Glover and Lomas Brown were multiple time pro bowlers.
Oh yeah, Barry Sanders had a very good oline as well. Kevin Glover and Lomas Brown were multiple time pro bowlers.
Posted on 7/23/17 at 10:37 am to OU812
Glover and Brown were also all-pros ie acknowledged as the best o-linemen in the profession those particular seasons and those acknowledged seasons were with Barry
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