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Message
re: Industry response to Kodi, etc.
Posted on 12/27/15 at 4:07 pm to MintBerry Crunch
Posted on 12/27/15 at 4:07 pm to MintBerry Crunch
There are a bunch of fricking communists in this thread. The justification so far has been, "Those Hollywood types can spare the money." I guess you wouldn't mind someone taking $1 from your wallet every day. You can afford it, right? You have no right to expect others to respect your hard earned property.
0
Posted on 12/27/15 at 4:08 pm to LeonPhelps
quote:
Explain to me how it any different from stealing something from a gas station? Would you just shove some food into your pocket at a gas station and walk out?
Not that I agree with stealing films now. But what kid didn't use Napster or torrenting at least for some part of their life?
First, the difference is that gas station would lack the property to sell. Stealing movies and music isn't "stealing," because you aren't taking someone's property, or ability to sell that property. We're talking strictly about art/culture that is impossible to physically consume away from someone else.
Second, when I did torrent it was 99% of the time to either A) Catch something again B) Watch something that I had 0 Opportunity to watch
Did you live in a place like Baton Rouge up until maybe 2010, when there was no chance of getting an independent film in town? Now why is that the case? Because there wasn't a theater interested in carrying less than wide release films because the ROI wouldn't be there. So a bunch of different people made the decision to say that people couldn't watch something because it would be a bad business decision. Right? If it was a bad business decision to carry an independent film in town, then they clearly don't want my money, so then stealing, in that particular case, wasn't really stealing. It was going out of the way to watch something I couldn't pay to consume anyway.
Now, that was a specific case a few years ago where if you didn't live in LA, NY, Chicago, etc., there was a chance that 30% of movie releases every week wouldn't play anywhere near you. Things have changed slightly since then.
I also don't see the big deal in streaming something you've already paid to watch once. But that's me.
Now the people who literally using torrenting/streaming to replace the theater...that's a problem yes.
This post was edited on 12/27/15 at 4:15 pm
Posted on 12/27/15 at 4:08 pm to MintBerry Crunch
quote:
When they can do Hollywood Accounting and say that films like Return of the Jedi ($475mm Box Office, $32.5mm budget) never made a profit, then they can deal with piracy. No sympathy
This is a decent point
But like the OP said, this stuff mainly affects small budget indie movies
Posted on 12/27/15 at 4:10 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
Stealing movies and music isn't "stealing," because you aren't taking someone's property, or ability to sell that property.
You're taking something you didn't pay for. That's stealing
Posted on 12/27/15 at 4:12 pm to jg8623
quote:
You're taking something you didn't pay for. That's stealing
Of course it's stealing, yes. But not in the context of the gas station example. That's all I mean; those are two completely different situations.
This post was edited on 12/27/15 at 4:12 pm
Posted on 12/27/15 at 4:13 pm to Freauxzen
So because it's not a physical object it's different?
Posted on 12/27/15 at 4:14 pm to LeonPhelps
quote:
Explain to me how it any different from stealing something from a gas station? Would you just shove some food into your pocket at a gas station and walk out?
Technically, the gas station would be out the food, but there is no way of knowing if the watcher would have purchased a ticket/viewing of the movie if he did not get it for free. The store is out the cost and potential earnings of the food, the production company may be out the potential earnings, but also may not be.
Both are stealing, but the comparison made was awful.
This post was edited on 12/27/15 at 4:16 pm
Posted on 12/27/15 at 4:15 pm to Jcorye1
quote:
So because it's not a physical object it's different?
quote:
Technically, the gas station would be out the food, but there is no way of knowing if the watcher would have purchased a ticket/viewing of the movie if he did not get it for free. The store is out the cost and potential earnings of the food, the production company may be out the potential earnings, but also may not be.
Both are stealing, but the comparison made was awful.
Posted on 12/27/15 at 4:15 pm to Jcorye1
quote:
but there is no way of knowing if the watcher would have purchased a ticket/viewing of the movie if he did not get it for free
How do you know the gas station stealer would have bought it if he couldn't steal it?
Posted on 12/27/15 at 4:21 pm to LeonPhelps
Technically speaking...
Its not considered "stealing" unless you download said movies.
Its not considered "stealing" unless you download said movies.
Posted on 12/27/15 at 4:23 pm to Freauxzen
I've seen star wars TFA 3 times already at theatres in the first week. Will likely see it 5 more times before the run ends...I still would not download this illegally
Posted on 12/27/15 at 4:24 pm to jg8623
quote:
You're taking something you didn't pay for. That's stealing
Hope you've never borrowed a DVD and watched the movie. That'd be awkward.
Posted on 12/27/15 at 4:25 pm to CajunAlum Tiger Fan
Look, it's fairly simple:
If the industry wanted to eliminate stealing, it would be simple:
1) Release all movies everywhere at the same time, this is possible
2) Release movies on all formats, at the same time, this is also possible (was not 20 years ago)
3) Create more opportunities in this structure for benefits... Buy Blu Ray when movie comes out, get a free ticket to a theater. I'd probably pay $20 for a digital copy of something I really loved right up front if they gave me a movie ticket with it.
4) Stop forcing 3D on everything, particularly IMAX movies
The problem with something like film is that you have two competing ideals on an experience, the industry and the consuming public. Are movies REQUIRED to be seen in a theater? 90% of the time, no. But they continually focus on that export channel (thanks Soderbergh for trying to buck the trend), no matter the cost. There are some films I just don't want to see in the theater.
Now, with digital film technology, there is literally NO NEED for a 5 month wait between theater and home video, that's manufactured for specific profit-generating reasons. So they are creating the want. And when you have the means, like now, to satisfy that want without waiting, people will do that.
This is the path of least resistance, culture will always conform to take that path. Yes, back in the day with movies and film....you had to see stuff in the theater. There was no way to bring it home. Then when you COULD bring it home, that process took months to complete. Not anymore.
These things are easy.
These are profit motivated companies, their goal is to squeeze as many pennies as possible from each person for the stuff they create. But they make it really really hard to want to give them money.
If the industry wanted to eliminate stealing, it would be simple:
1) Release all movies everywhere at the same time, this is possible
2) Release movies on all formats, at the same time, this is also possible (was not 20 years ago)
3) Create more opportunities in this structure for benefits... Buy Blu Ray when movie comes out, get a free ticket to a theater. I'd probably pay $20 for a digital copy of something I really loved right up front if they gave me a movie ticket with it.
4) Stop forcing 3D on everything, particularly IMAX movies
The problem with something like film is that you have two competing ideals on an experience, the industry and the consuming public. Are movies REQUIRED to be seen in a theater? 90% of the time, no. But they continually focus on that export channel (thanks Soderbergh for trying to buck the trend), no matter the cost. There are some films I just don't want to see in the theater.
Now, with digital film technology, there is literally NO NEED for a 5 month wait between theater and home video, that's manufactured for specific profit-generating reasons. So they are creating the want. And when you have the means, like now, to satisfy that want without waiting, people will do that.
This is the path of least resistance, culture will always conform to take that path. Yes, back in the day with movies and film....you had to see stuff in the theater. There was no way to bring it home. Then when you COULD bring it home, that process took months to complete. Not anymore.
These things are easy.
These are profit motivated companies, their goal is to squeeze as many pennies as possible from each person for the stuff they create. But they make it really really hard to want to give them money.
Posted on 12/27/15 at 4:26 pm to HeadChange
quote:
Hope you've never borrowed a DVD and watched the movie. That'd be awkward.
Borrowed ANYTHING. Music. DVD. Heck, being that strict as a lot more consequences.
Posted on 12/27/15 at 4:27 pm to Freauxzen
I'll accept that it's not the best comparison; it was just the quickest one to make the point. And I do appreciate the thoughtful response rather than some overarching dismissal.
But to address your 2 primary reasons for torrenting a film.
A) Wanting to watch something again isn't valid justification to skip paying for it. If I want to go to a theme park I'd already visited bc it was a lot of fun, I don't have free range to sneak in the back. Don't see why movies should be different.
B) There are virtually no movies that you have 0 opportunity to watch. A few foreign films and super low budgets, maybe. But almost everything is available 6 months after original release on redbox. Be patient and wait for the product through the medium that the owner of the product offers it. My feeing is that just because a business doesn't offer a product at the exact venue you would find most ideal doesn't mean you have the right to take the product with no compensation.
I definitely get that there are some cases worse than others. But at the core of it, someone else is making the investment to create the film; they should have the right to determine how to distribute it. Cheating their offered channels of distribution feels wrong
But to address your 2 primary reasons for torrenting a film.
A) Wanting to watch something again isn't valid justification to skip paying for it. If I want to go to a theme park I'd already visited bc it was a lot of fun, I don't have free range to sneak in the back. Don't see why movies should be different.
B) There are virtually no movies that you have 0 opportunity to watch. A few foreign films and super low budgets, maybe. But almost everything is available 6 months after original release on redbox. Be patient and wait for the product through the medium that the owner of the product offers it. My feeing is that just because a business doesn't offer a product at the exact venue you would find most ideal doesn't mean you have the right to take the product with no compensation.
I definitely get that there are some cases worse than others. But at the core of it, someone else is making the investment to create the film; they should have the right to determine how to distribute it. Cheating their offered channels of distribution feels wrong
Posted on 12/27/15 at 4:28 pm to Tiger Ryno
quote:
I've seen star wars TFA 3 times already at theatres in the first week. Will likely see it 5 more times before the run ends...I still would not download this illegally
It depends on whether you think you have paid for the experience of the movie in singularity, or if that experience is something that is yours forever, regardless of how you get it. This gets into deep stuff.
Posted on 12/27/15 at 4:32 pm to Freauxzen
It is illegal to record said movies in theatres and post them on sites that are referenced by Kodi.
It is also illegal to download said movies.
If you do either of those things, you are breaking the law.
It is also illegal to download said movies.
If you do either of those things, you are breaking the law.
Posted on 12/27/15 at 4:34 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
Borrowed ANYTHING. Music. DVD. Heck, being that strict as a lot more consequences
Some people are too simple to understand this.
Posted on 12/27/15 at 4:38 pm to funnystuff
quote:
A) Wanting to watch something again isn't valid justification to skip paying for it. If I want to go to a theme park I'd already visited bc it was a lot of fun, I don't have free range to sneak in the back. Don't see why movies should be different.
That's a better comparison. But again, going to theme park again is a hard cost, I have to take attendant's time, use facilities, the facility has to be open, etc. I literally don't have to do anything else to watch a movie again.
I cannot duplicate the experience of the theme park without hard costs. There is no hard cost in duplicating the experience of the film.
quote:
B) There are virtually no movies that you have 0 opportunity to watch. A few foreign films and super low budgets, maybe. But almost everything is available 6 months after original release on redbox. Be patient and wait for the product through the medium that the owner of the product offers it. My feeing is that just because a business doesn't offer a product at the exact venue you would find most ideal doesn't mean you have the right to take the product with no compensation.
But that is their business decision, to not offer it to an ideal venue for each individual person. They don't offer at my venue when I want it because it MUST lose them money if they did.
They clearly don't want my money, otherwise they would take the risk and offer it. That's all I mean. If they wanted my money, they would do their best to get it to me, not pick and choose who gets something and at what time.
And we aren't talking about a limited edition Porsche. We're talking about a film, that can be streamed to people whenever they what. Creating arbitrary limitations is their choice. I think people finding ways around arbitrary limitations, while stealing, doesn't make them bad people.
quote:
they should have the right to determine how to distribute it.
And they have that right. But if they don't count someone willing to spend money, then that is on them. That person no longer counts as part of their pricing/revenue structure. Their math works out to say "These people are not seeing the film."
(And this is unique to the kind of product that could be be offered everywhere with internet at the same time simultaneously.)
This post was edited on 12/27/15 at 5:33 pm
Posted on 12/27/15 at 4:39 pm to boXerrumble
quote:
It is illegal to record said movies in theatres and post them on sites that are referenced by Kodi.
It is also illegal to download said movies.
If you do either of those things, you are breaking the law.
Actually, let me guess, so you've NEVER driven above the Speed Limit?? Ever?
This post was edited on 12/27/15 at 4:42 pm
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