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Freauxzen
| Favorite team: | Washington State  |
| Location: | Washington |
| Biography: | LSU Alumni (2004) UWM (2007), Born and raised in LA. Moved from a cushy public sector job in Education to a crazy, cutting-edge, job in a tech/education. Currently a Software Executive. |
| Interests: | Reading, Writing, Arithmetic, Sports (soccer player by nature), Movies, Arguing about random things, Useless Information |
| Occupation: | Software, Sales |
| Number of Posts: | 38504 |
| Registered on: | 2/14/2006 |
| Online Status: | Online |
Recent Posts
Message
quote:
I also wonder how it's possible for me to have such a starkly different perception of modern marriage than the people who have been posting in this thread.
We actually agree on a problem, in theory, it's the cause of it that is the fault. It's not the fault of men alone, or marriage or men getting more leisure time. You say it's marriage, until you said it was consumerism - like I said you were right.
The problem, in general is a lack of a cohesive value system that we all share - namely Christianity - which created a vacuum for consumerism to enter. Truly though, we value efficiency and comfort and the thing that bring that in spades is consumerism.
We value self-freedom, access to money and things and the ability to create our own tailored and customized experience of the world over God, family, nation and service. That's really the issue. Not marriage.
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quote:
If the senator would say can people who were born male get pregnant, she could just answer the question.
The only males are the people that are born males.
There's no difference. But I see why you want there to be one.
quote:
We’ve had people get sex changes for decades.
So it's normal? You must be super pumped a 16 year old can lop off her breasts before she can rent a car.
quote:
We always talk about freedom on this board, but apparently what we really want is freedom for the things that we agree with or are comfortable with.
There's no such thing as a woman that can be a man or vice versa, and expecting me to believe that there is, and to speak it - because words matter like you said - is not freedom at all.
re: 12th Grade Girls Are Far Less Likely Than Boys To Say They Want To Get Married Someday
Posted by Freauxzen on 1/15/26 at 12:06 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
In fact, the data says in terms of financial security it's a bigger gap than it used to be for unmarried vs marrieds.
Din ding ding.
One of the articles I linked said the marriage is wrong BECAUSE it is inequal.
cubs - If outputs for a traditional, faith-based marriage - and there is no conflicting data, they are more stable, have higher forms of happiness, economic outcomes for the family, etc. - what's the response there?
quote:
You are implying that the existence of the WNBA proves most women consume WNBA content. I’ve never watched a WNBA game nor have I had the desire to study it in any way. I imagine that’s true for most of the world. What kind of strong hold do you suppose the WNBA has on American culture?
It's the point that it's seen as female empowerment or as "successful," when it loses money and is propped by NBA dollars. But it is made "a thing," that can really stand on it's own. It's not a business, it's a charity.
quote:
we live in a capitalist society. Labor is valued through wages. Labor that does not produce wages is not valued. Domestic labor is gendered and provided for free within families.
But see, this whole entire reduction of familial life as both labor and a think that should be equated and monetized akin to a job...
It's just so cold. That's not what marriage is.
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No one is claiming this here. I’m arguing that men benefit far more than women benefit from marriage.
I mean you are saying women abandoning marriage is a good thing, because it's "inequal," if they keep doing that that yeah it's failed.
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Who cares if they can maximize their earning potential if they are married with kids? I care more about increasing my earning potential now that I have kids than before. I imagine most working parents care about maximizing their incomes.
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managing a household and raising kids. The unpaid domestic labor they are expected to provide.
quote:
Society would need to be restructured to be less materialistic and consumption-driven.
So here is the crux of your argument. And it's the right argument to have. Arguing about 3 hours of extra labor, or "unpaid" family labor, etc. is all a smokescreen.
And you're RIGHT here.
quote:
Fair. It seems that the media the average PT poster consumes is far more pro-feminist than what I have been exposed to, perhaps.
still being obtuse. we've already pointed out the WNBA and selective service in this thread. Again, you know what we are talking about. You can't be THAT dense.
quote:
A lot of what people reflexively label “feminism” looks to me more like downstream effects of broader cultural and economic shifts: dual-income households becoming a necessity, credential inflation, rising costs of living, delayed adulthood, a labor market that reshapes family life whether people want it to or not, etc. Those forces would have changed gender roles even if the word “feminism” had never existed.
I'd admit it's more complicated than "just feminism," but i don't think the breakdown of family was inevitable without feminism.
And it's pretty clear in a lot of places that Feminist propaganda is a powerful force in shaping cultural views on family.
quote:
Dismissing the real experiences of women (along with the data that demonstrates measurable imbalances in the distribution of domestic labor in heterosexual marriages) as "just emotions" is not reflective of the actual data.
I never said they were just emotions. But women are wired differently biologically.
Or do you really think there is no actual difference between men and women, and it's all a cultural construct in a male dominated existance?
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Marriage is another sacrifice women make for the greater societal benefit. Feminism didn't "teach" me that. Experience and observation did.
I'd argue, both should sacrifice. But we'd probably argue over what that sacrifice should be.
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Historically and presently, marriage has operated as a social institution that smooths over men’s instability, channels male risk-taking into acceptable forms, and produces order. Women supply much of the unpaid labor that makes that possible. Emotional regulation, domestic management, caregiving, social planning, and the invisible work of keeping a household and family coherent still fall primarily on women, even in supposedly egalitarian marriages.
You get over descriptive with what women do, while not describing what men do - creating a rhetorical imbalance to prove your point. But it's just obfuscation. Do you want domestic labor to be paid? why does it have to be qualified as "unpaid" labor?
Men, who work, have to deal with stress, emotional regulation at work and in work circles, leadership and management of people that are not families, planning, physical and hard labor, commutes, danger, physical risk.
you're going to say even working women have to deal with that - guess what - that's the whole problem. Put your list and my list together, then put both of those people in family, and of course there are complexities. the whole point of traditional marriage is that it's BETTER for those people to split those kinds of duties.
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Men are more likely to benefit from marriage through improved health outcomes
Men still live shorter lives on average.
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increased earnings
who cares if they are in a traditional marriage?
quote:
social legitimacy
Fixable problem, but again, what do you mean by social legitimacy? if you are speaking to value of a stay at home wife - that's feminist propaganda's fault and not men.
quote:
Women are more likely to experience increased workload and responsibility with less structural support.
increased workload from what?
quote:
You see it in who scales back at work when a child is sick, who remembers birthdays and appointments, who manages relationships with extended family
Some of these are simple conversations that good marriages need to navigate. Some are personal preferences.
quote:
who absorbs emotional fallout so the household keeps functioning.
Probably need some counseling. But at large I doubt this is so normal that it means marriage is a failed experiment.
quote:
Feminism didn't “teach” women to be skeptical of marriage. Women became skeptical because they paid attention.
Yet all data points to traditional, Christian marriages producing better outcomes across the board.
They have more stable marriages, better happiness outcomes, etc.
So explain the fact that the more you get away from that (stats that go from inter-faith marriages, all the way through homosexual arrangements being worse) the more marriage suffers?
quote:
They noticed that marriage, as currently structured
So how would you restructure marriage?
quote:
often asks them to give more than they receive
That's because they are told they should receive little, ie that having a job is more important than having kids. this is a cultural idea, driven mainly by feminists.
You Keep Saying feminist don't talk about about marriage, yet, one Google search (and all I typed was "feminism and marriage" I did not look specifically for articles denegrating marriage:
A Feminist Critique of Marriage
Marriage is Inherently misogynistic...
Married Couples Are Given Rights, And that's Not Fair (my words)
the Feminist case Against Marriage
Marriage is an inherently Unfeminist Institution
Heterosexual marriage is undeniably patriarchal (also I see where you get your "unpaid labor" critique - feminism. It's all over this one)
Same Sex Marriage is a Radical Feminist Iea
Why I don't want to get married - guess one of her answers: Feminism
Democrats want to unmoor objective truth so they can do what they want with the world and shape it in their own twisted image.
All of them.
All of them.
quote:
I was fooled into believing this version of the Fantastic Four would be one-off.
Just like they said female silver surfer wouldn't be THE silver surfer?
Yeah those people are way wrong.
re: Turns out that Caviezel bailed on “The Resurrection” sequel due to a reportedly low salary
Posted by Freauxzen on 1/13/26 at 3:43 pm to JasonDBlaha
quote:
I don’t blame Jim at all for walking away, if that is reportedly true.
I'd blame Gibson for the low ball. The two parters probably eclipse $1.0b together easily.
quote:
What does this mean? Was there an email? Newsletter? Some conference that feminism hosted that women all attended at some point? I’m serious.
You aren't serious. And if you are, then yeah this is a hard conversation. If you can't wrap your head around how certain kinds of ideas are intentionally codified into cultural and pushed through art, news, media, education etc., I can't help you.
I'd also ask, if feminism doesn't exist, then neither does a large cultural system that was built around men. That would also all be hogwash.
quote:
Heterosexual marriage is way too much work for women, imo.
What does this mean? And why does this only go one way?
quote:
Pretty much every woman married to a man that I know agrees with me. But I’m sure we’re all anomalies.
You aren't anomalies at all, you're women. You find a lot of solidarity in the emotional struggles of peers, particularly women, and will end up agreeing for comfort even if you don't totally agree or see this problem at the exact same level. You want to feel included and like someone listens, therefore, you will allow your emotions to be swayed so you can be "part of the pack." This is why trends are generally a feminine thing. Women, in general, have the same approach to fashionable things. This is all pretty predictable.
On the other hand, men argue about stupid stuff with each other, like who would win in a fight Bruce Lee or Mike Tyson, because men generally seek conflict. Men don't want to agree off the bat, to your point, this has shaped culture.
This is all biological and it's why trying to enforce all of these quotas and structures against real biology is just so chaotic for everyone.
quote:
jokes? I don’t know about that.
Yes, those are jokes. From MOST men. Are they not jokes for some? Sure. Are some marriages good and some bad? Sure. But again, saying that ALL men want to remove the right for women to vote and ALL marriages are inequal is just poor arguing.
quote:
Not really. Or at least this isn’t the brand of feminism discussed in modern academia. I’m the board’s liberal social justice warrior mascot (or villain?) and I’m a church-going married mother of three.
Yes it is. Abortion is still the number 1 female issue. Abortion is the purest form of a woman's freedom, and it is STILL presented and articulated as such.
But congrats for going against the trend. The very article posted here is continuing the idea, that you support, that marriage isn't worth it for women. So yes, detaching women from familial responsibility is still very much the goal of feminism.
quote:
Aren't there just a few factories that produce baby formula in the US? And they sell under different labels?
The illusion of choice.
re: Avengers Doomsday Fourth Teaser
Posted by Freauxzen on 1/13/26 at 2:30 pm to dawgfan24348
Just wanted to post and say this version of Namor still sucks. Bigtime.
Just as bad as She Hulk.
Just as bad as She Hulk.
I said it during the Kirk stuff.
If that event didnt change the Democrat party specifically how they talked, governed and talked to and about conservatives...
Then they were all complicit. Its not a Progressive thing. Its the modern Democrat party.
If that event didnt change the Democrat party specifically how they talked, governed and talked to and about conservatives...
Then they were all complicit. Its not a Progressive thing. Its the modern Democrat party.
quote:
What does this have to do with feminism though?
Because modern feminism told women that the only value was outside of the home to chase a career and that family, being a mom, was not worth it.
It's not the only driver, but I'd say modern feminism was at the forefront of breaking down the family. Lots of other things participated, but getting most women to stop thinking about life as a mother opened the door.
quote:
Misunderstanding. I meant that I think most modern husbands do see their wives as having agency and dignity.
So then why are we talking about this? Because only some men are assholes?
You've kind of said marriage isn't worth it for women at large and men get more value out of it than women. And that's why women are opting out.
quote:
Men get the luxury of being left alone?
In what sense?
quote:
Women seem to be blamed for everything.
You reacting generally to jokes on a male dominated message board.
quote:
You can see it in this thread - multiple people are blaming "feminism" for all sorts of societal ills but no one is willing to even define what feminisms is
As a cultural force, there are few more impactful in the modern age than feminism, and it is TOUGH to define because what started as post-suffrage access to the corporate sector has turned into a demand to equalize from all individual human inputs, all outputs - be it dollars, recognition, college degree attainment, and on and on.
Hilariously though, it's moved beyond equality into forced overrepresentation. I mean the caricature of the WNBA is a nice example of that.
Philosophically speaking it's much easier, feminism seeks to turn women into something other than mothers. That traditional family, and traditional "motherhood," is somehow repressive and that freedom exists in everything BUT motherhood.
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except to call it consumerism, which seems like a major misalignment.
I didn't say that's what it is, that's just the rational, and proved, endpoint.
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So feminism = consumerism?
kingbob just about crushed the response, but I'll ask the direct question:
If you aren't supporting a family, what is money for?
quote:
I think modern husbands do for the most part.
Modern husbands = 60% of them 80? 99%?
You think in all of those statistics of healthy traditional marriages that most of those women have husbands who don't see them with dignity and agency? Really?
So they are all lying to themselves?
quote:
Can one measure satisfaction or happiness in marriage?
Sure, but not with leisure time and hours worked.
And at best it's an estimation of effectiveness of marriage.
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I'll concede to this.
:cheers:
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he didn't tell me that and then go on a rant about how women shouldn't have the right to vote because the men who have governed the country for hundreds of years screwed it up, though.
The whole women shouldn't vote thing is mostly a joke, it should be either tax payers or land owners only. :lol:
quote:
Maybe society or culture doesn't value either sex? We just are self-absorbed and don't value each other in general?
See kingbob's post 100%
quote:
It seems that because men are physically stronger, they get more respect. But I'm open to the possibility that I haven't considered everything.
It's a big statement.
I mean the threat of physical danger is one of the most important mechanisms that drive nature. So yes, in a sense you are right. And there is no changing that.
Respect aside - I think "respect" and "value," are just really tough to define and articulate terms.
Correct me if I am wrong, you have this idea that men "get more acclaim," than women, maybe in all spheres, but specifically in a general. That, visibly in public, men are more valued. (And when I say value here I mean the classic sense - they are "seen" in a more positive general light?
quote:
What exactly do you mean when you say "the state of marriage is due to feminism..."? This seems like such a copout.
I'll do a second post on this, I think it's relevant, but is its own line of debate.
In short, because American people have been taught that the main value they bring to the world is the ability to generate money and spend money, that women, who want "freedom," that the only path to that is to be a type-A career person outside of the home. This is supported by the want of corporate America to have 2 earner households, etc. etc. It's all lined up to:
1. Delay marriage and create more needs for consumerism
2. Delay having kids
3. Focus most people on individual "fulfillment," rather than family fulfillment
Freedom, value, all of these things have been redefined in completely misaligned ways.
On that note:
quote:
Valued = respected as whole people with dignity and agency.
So when you say that this is the state of most marriages, whats your assumption on percentage of this?
You think most men in marriages don't view their wives with dignity and agency?
Agency in what terms?
quote:
I agree that marriage is more than housework and keeping kids alive. What other metrics could be used to measure or demonstrate effort and satisfaction/frustration?
Found the problem.
Marriage is not metrics. And that's why caring who does what incremental percentage of more work based on complicated ratios of "leisure" time vs. "work" time... it's all a fool's errand.
You can't "measure" marriage.
quote:
Some men are working more hours at work. A quick google search said more than a quarter (28%) of men work overtime everyday compared to 13% of women. I know this isn't a comprehensive picture, but if tis reflective of larger trends - this isn't even a third of men/husbands.
I work more than 40 hours per week, I would never say I work "Overtime." I'm a salaried employee. In my line of work, there's really no such thing as "Overtime." Again, perspectives are different in all of these cases.
But that simple Google search should still prove to you that, again, this stuff is too messy to make broad generalizations. Men typically work more overtime. Doesn't this show you that there are some imbalances that are hard to be adjusted for? And that blanket statements like "women do more chores," are just really, really complicated?
quote:
Can you provide evidence of women being valued by society in tangible ways?
I'm going to be honest first - this caring about "value," is just so misaligned.
You want a tangible way that women as a gender are viewed with dignity and agency per your previous definition? My guess is anything that I say you'll say "But men like looking at hot women, so that doesn't matter."
Or I don't really have proof at scale of either gender getting treated with dignity and agency.
The culture spent like 4 decades on the "dumb husband as comic relief" trope. And still do. So there's no dignity there at scale.
I mean, Women have a sixth sense? The view that Women are better with kids? Women makeup a larger share of college graduates?
re: 12th Grade Girls Are Far Less Likely Than Boys To Say They Want To Get Married Someday
Posted by Freauxzen on 1/12/26 at 12:33 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
wackatimesthree
quote:
But I'll break this down one more time for you.
You are quoting a 2023 "study" by Pew Research.
The core data for the time-use analysis in Pew's work came from the American Time Use Survey (ATUS). ATUS includes several categories including one called “household activities,” which covers "chores" like lawn and garden care, pet care, vehicle maintenance, and home maintenance or repair, time spent on other domestic projects or activities.
Pew had ALL that ATUS categorical information at its disposal, but chose not to use it. Instead, Pew specifically, deliberately excluded select categories.
E.g., Pew had access to time spent on yardwork, home repair, vehicle maintenance, household management, purchasing services, financial tasks. Yet, those were specifically eliminated from the "study." Why? Why would something like coaching a child's team be couched under "leisure time" for the husband rather than childcare? Why would a day of house painting in the hot sun not be counted as a domestic chore, but a subsequent long shower and relaxing with a beer watching an evening game on TV be considered as leisure?
Thanks for doing this research. I assumed as much, but this confirms it.
quote:
I don’t consider “feminism” to be a reasonable explanation or culprit for men not valuing women.
We probably need to be a little more specific. The act of "Devaluing" while inaccurate, I've already addressed.
The state of marriage itself is due to feminism and culture. That's a bigger topic than this value line of thinking.
quote:
Imo, men have never valued women. It’s possible that women haven’t valued men either but that’s not what the discussion is really about.
Yeesh. That's a big statement to make. And it's quite wrong. I'd ask what do you mean as "value?"
quote:
Right. I don’t really buy into that on a personal or familial level. Money isn’t everything. Stuff isn’t everything.
Right but everything you are saying is boiling down to who does more chores, who makes more money and who spend more time in leisure - and how either the individual parties or culture is "valuing" those things.
Marriage is a lot more than that, but this is all the argument is.
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which they are able to do because their wives are taking care of the kids and home.
So men potentially are working more hours at work, while women are spending more time on chores at home. And this is a problem?
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It surprises me that the assumption is men are doing these big tasks.
I mean, men are going to do the manual and any man that doesn't needs to re-evaluate. Of course that doesn't mean they do it all, but they are more than likely doing the large share of it.
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Women aren’t valued.
Why?
Look, you're right for a subset of marriages, but to apply this to culture and marriages at large, just not really valuable to do that.
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This is a bit of a stretch to me.
Her intent was to block the lawful work of removing criminals from the streets.
Therefore, she was intent on increasing criminal activity and chaos.
Sounds like a terrorist to me.
Democrats dont often have policies in the classic sense.
They have power strategies. They believe they are correct. They believe they have moral superiority. They believe they, and they alone, should be able to set the rules.
Their policies are a collection of whatever in the given moment supports the best path to do that.
They have power strategies. They believe they are correct. They believe they have moral superiority. They believe they, and they alone, should be able to set the rules.
Their policies are a collection of whatever in the given moment supports the best path to do that.
re: You don't need breakfast, America
Posted by Freauxzen on 1/11/26 at 9:39 am to ClientNumber9
Mid morning Protein and fiber snack.
Thats all you need. Dont eat before work. And make it protein loaded like at 10am.
Eggs works in any form. Thats it.
Thats all you need. Dont eat before work. And make it protein loaded like at 10am.
Eggs works in any form. Thats it.
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