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Posted on 7/15/25 at 8:32 am to CocomoLSU
I just finished s2e8. It seems to be following the Bear model a bit where they focus on on a single character and devote an entire episode to that one person.
I really enjoyed seeing gemmas backstory. She's a hottie. I won't post any spoilers in here but I've really enjoyed both seasons.
I really enjoyed seeing gemmas backstory. She's a hottie. I won't post any spoilers in here but I've really enjoyed both seasons.
Posted on 7/15/25 at 8:32 am to Fun Bunch
quote:what?? I am really enjoying season 2
Season 2 is 4.5/10 at best.
Posted on 7/15/25 at 9:47 am to CAD703X
quote:
I won't post any spoilers in here but I've really enjoyed both seasons.
Post spoilers once you finish and I'll discuss it with you. I missed the boat on the season discussion obviously, so I didn't want to bump that thread. But this one seems as good as starting my own.
I enjoyed S2 as well, but there were some vastly wasted episodes IMO. And I like weird stuff, but sometimes this show leans a little too far into it and it just becomes absurd.
I'm interested in your views on the series as a whole, and S2 as well. Bump this once you finish the finale (which, while silly, I really liked btw).
Posted on 7/15/25 at 10:02 am to CocomoLSU
i've watched all the 'behind the scenes' for S2 so far. i should finish this today.
Posted on 7/15/25 at 10:05 am to CAD703X
Yeah I enjoyed the few minutes of the cast discussions after the show. I normally don't bother with those (or don't know about them), but I caught them for this one. The problem is Apple+ prompts the next episode once the credits start, so every time you have to select to keep watching the credits in order to get to the postgame stuff.
Posted on 7/16/25 at 11:33 am to CocomoLSU
Cocomo here is your bump 
S--P--O--I--L--E--R--S B_E_L_O_W BEWARE
============================================================
S1 is better than S2 but much like Black Sails (yeah i said it) S1 had to first set everything up so we all went into S2 fully on-board w/ the ridiculous premise so we weren't going to be as surprised as we were w/ how S1 unfolded.
Re: Helena/Helly; everyone seemed like that was a big reveal but to me that was the least surprising thing; i didn't 'get' it until she said on E2 her outie was boring but at that moment I KNEW; particularly w/ the way she was looking at the 'kiss' on video replay. she wanted some of that Mark D and she got it. Kudos to Irving for his sacrifice for the others.
Re that team building EP. i can buy the severance floor is saturated w/ the lumon signal and insulated to keep innies in line but how tf were they able to cover that massive area and get the OUTIES there in the first place? did i miss where they showed that?
hmm, thinking this through; i guess maybe the 'ot contingency' was invoked to control innies outside of the building?
nitpicking here; but lumon security also seems awfully porus if they can't track mark running around 57 different hallways en route to finding gemma like someone besides milchick should be there as backup. yet they have dedicated people watching them from inside their computer screens.
lumon reminds me so much of DHARMA from Lost. just a bunch of crazy-arse shite that at this point to me, still makes no sense. wtf killing a goat & burying it with gemma? how were they planning to kill her? at first i thought she was going to be overcome w/ her outie's emotions after taking the crib apart and kill herself w/ the allen wrench but that part was never fully explained.
scenes 10/10. you can't top those settings from the cold harbor where cobel grew up and the the depressing corporate building to the barren team building park.
storyline..i really enjoyed mark's conversation with himself on the last ep. both innie & outie brought up some great points and yes, mark's outie is the unintentional bad guy b/c he wants gemma back and at the end of the day won't be upset if reintegration doesn't happen. sucks for mark s.
the depressing thing is they kidnapped gemma knowing they could 'get' mark so his opting to become severenced was more corporate manipulation of his feelings and if he hadn't; would gemma be dead for real?
this is complicated; there's no good or bad to his character in this situation or easy-to-monday-morning-quaterback decisions he should have made that would have been better.
i'm surprised at milchick. while we don't know what happened w/ him and the band at the end, the fact they humiliated him w/ those black face paintings should have struck a chord in him. he told drummond to devour feculence and mocked the kier animatronic so he grew a spine so why was he still so ruthless to the innies at the end?
and wtf were those cards?? gemma had one but why was milchick so desperate to get that one back that he invoked the OT contingency?
was burt a driver for lumon? did he pick people up to hand over to lumon or was he a mob guy in his former life?
was gemma the only 'innie' who never got to leave or are there others?
clearly a S3 is needed to answer questions; i dont really care about kobel's story arc, i think she's done; but what happens w/ the innies now? lumon is a hostile environment so i think they would immediately kill them all unless they still need mark since he fricked up their moment at the end.
but..they can't kill them if the outie doesn't return to the building right?
and what was that moment anyway? WTF :lol: still not sure what they were trying to achieve other than to 'clone' gemma's mind to implant in someone else..i'm not sure what the mapping accomplished.
S--P--O--I--L--E--R--S B_E_L_O_W BEWARE
============================================================
S1 is better than S2 but much like Black Sails (yeah i said it) S1 had to first set everything up so we all went into S2 fully on-board w/ the ridiculous premise so we weren't going to be as surprised as we were w/ how S1 unfolded.
Re: Helena/Helly; everyone seemed like that was a big reveal but to me that was the least surprising thing; i didn't 'get' it until she said on E2 her outie was boring but at that moment I KNEW; particularly w/ the way she was looking at the 'kiss' on video replay. she wanted some of that Mark D and she got it. Kudos to Irving for his sacrifice for the others.
Re that team building EP. i can buy the severance floor is saturated w/ the lumon signal and insulated to keep innies in line but how tf were they able to cover that massive area and get the OUTIES there in the first place? did i miss where they showed that?
hmm, thinking this through; i guess maybe the 'ot contingency' was invoked to control innies outside of the building?
nitpicking here; but lumon security also seems awfully porus if they can't track mark running around 57 different hallways en route to finding gemma
like someone besides milchick should be there as backup. yet they have dedicated people watching them from inside their computer screens. lumon reminds me so much of DHARMA from Lost. just a bunch of crazy-arse shite that at this point to me, still makes no sense. wtf killing a goat & burying it with gemma? how were they planning to kill her? at first i thought she was going to be overcome w/ her outie's emotions after taking the crib apart and kill herself w/ the allen wrench but that part was never fully explained.
scenes 10/10. you can't top those settings from the cold harbor where cobel grew up and the the depressing corporate building to the barren team building park.
storyline..i really enjoyed mark's conversation with himself on the last ep. both innie & outie brought up some great points and yes, mark's outie is the unintentional bad guy b/c he wants gemma back and at the end of the day won't be upset if reintegration doesn't happen. sucks for mark s.
the depressing thing is they kidnapped gemma knowing they could 'get' mark so his opting to become severenced was more corporate manipulation of his feelings and if he hadn't; would gemma be dead for real?
this is complicated; there's no good or bad to his character in this situation or easy-to-monday-morning-quaterback decisions he should have made that would have been better.
i'm surprised at milchick. while we don't know what happened w/ him and the band at the end, the fact they humiliated him w/ those black face paintings should have struck a chord in him. he told drummond to devour feculence
and mocked the kier animatronic so he grew a spine so why was he still so ruthless to the innies at the end? and wtf were those cards?? gemma had one but why was milchick so desperate to get that one back that he invoked the OT contingency?
was burt a driver for lumon? did he pick people up to hand over to lumon or was he a mob guy in his former life?
was gemma the only 'innie' who never got to leave or are there others?
clearly a S3 is needed to answer questions; i dont really care about kobel's story arc, i think she's done; but what happens w/ the innies now? lumon is a hostile environment so i think they would immediately kill them all unless they still need mark since he fricked up their moment at the end.
but..they can't kill them if the outie doesn't return to the building right?
and what was that moment anyway? WTF :lol: still not sure what they were trying to achieve other than to 'clone' gemma's mind to implant in someone else..i'm not sure what the mapping accomplished.
This post was edited on 7/16/25 at 11:50 am
Posted on 7/16/25 at 12:05 pm to CAD703X
quote:
S--P--O--I--L--E--R--S B_E_L_O_W BEWARE
quote:
S1 is better than S2
Agreed. And after I've had a few months to letit marinate, I like S1 a decent amount more than S2. S2 was still top tier TV, but the more I think about the ending (not the final scene), just the big reveal, the more I dislike it.
quote:
Black Sails (yeah i said it)
It's been over a year, time for a rewatch
quote:
nitpicking here; but lumon security also seems awfully porus if they can't track mark running around 57 different hallways en route to finding gemma like someone besides milchick should be there as backup. yet they have dedicated people watching them from inside their computer screens.
I think most would agree, and did, in the in season thread that security was a bit of an issue
Like come on, where are the people at. quote:
lumon reminds me so much of DHARMA from Lost. just a bunch of crazy-arse shite that at this point to me, still makes no sense
Some questions answered, even more questions opened up. Possibly my biggest gripe.
quote:
wtf killing a goat & burying it with gemma? how were they planning to kill her? at first i thought she was going to be overcome w/ her outie's emotions after taking the crib apart and kill herself w/ the allen wrench but that part was never fully explained.
The goat was just a sacrifice to Kier for when they accomplished their work/cold harbor refining. I guess they typically sacrificed them over the years. Don't really see a need for a whole unit to watch over and breed goats but the show is weird and they goat people and Brienne of Tarth were a cool part.
quote:
.i really enjoyed mark's conversation with himself on the last ep. both innie & outie brought up some great points and yes, mark's outie is the unintentional bad guy b/c he wants gemma back and at the end of the day won't be upset if reunification doesn't happen. sucks for mark s.
Just a fantastic scene. Incredible acting and writing all around.And it was definitely the moment innnie Mark made the decision to stay with Helly instead of leave with Gemma. There was a moment in there that innie Mark could tell he wasn't going to get the life he wanted and that outie Mark had some selfishness towards the situation. Both emotions were completely understandable from each of their perspective.
quote:
still not sure what they were trying to achieve other than to 'clone' gemma's mind to implant in someone else..i'm not sure what the mapping accomplished.
My biggest gripe, and got downvoted to death in the in season thread, because minor complaints were not allowed fwiw, was that the biggest event in Lumons history, their greatest accomplishment, what two seasons built up to, was just simply... making the severance process better? Give me a break. Just a major let down from a story perspective and also from very simply a "Yea that is in no way the greatest accomplishment in their history" prospective. Hell, coming up with a successful severance process in general is the much bigger deal. Or a successful implant. Or the fact that they have a massive running company/cult. It's like saying the invention of the v8 motor was the greatest automotive accomplishment ever, above actually inventing a running motor.
All that being said, it's an amazing show. Just the end puts it below S1 for me, which had an all time great ending.
Posted on 7/16/25 at 12:32 pm to CAD703X
quote:
Re: Helena/Helly; everyone seemed like that was a big reveal but to me that was the least surprising thing; i didn't 'get' it until she said on E2 her outie was boring but at that moment I KNEW; particularly w/ the way she was looking at the 'kiss' on video replay. she wanted some of that Mark D and she got it. Kudos to Irving for his sacrifice for the others.
Re that team building EP. i can buy the severance floor is saturated w/ the lumon signal and insulated to keep innies in line but how tf were they able to cover that massive area and get the OUTIES there in the first place? did i miss where they showed that?
They used the Glasgow block on her. That's how that was explained. That allowed Helena to be there with the innies and once Seth turned it off she was back to Helly.
I thought that whole episode, while sort of interesting, was almost a giant waste of time. We learned very few things in the episode (some offshoots of Kier stuff, the Helena infiltration, Milchick's first name), and most of that could've been done in a fraction of the time. Not much about it made sense. At first I thought they were in some sort of simulation, because that's about the only way any of it makes any sense. But it appears they were actually in the wilderness somewhere. So did they lug the outies all the way out there and then flip them? Did they convince them to travel out in the middle of nowhere in the middle of winter and hvae them agree to the retreat for their innies? How the frick did Irving survive the night sleeping in literal freezing temps? Did they randomly bring all of the dopplegangers out there just to point in directions?
I love the show, but so much of it falls apart at the slightest application of logic and reason.
quote:
nitpicking here; but lumon security also seems awfully porus if they can't track mark running around 57 different hallways en route to finding gemma like someone besides milchick should be there as backup. yet they have dedicated people watching them from inside their computer screens.
I said the same thing numerous times. In a setting like that you know EVERYTHING and EVERYWHERE would be monitored with audio/video. And the characters even talk about that at one point I believe. Yet they continue to operate as if they aren't. And security there basically consists of one dude, Milchick, and a tiny asian girl.
quote:
lumon reminds me so much of DHARMA from Lost. just a bunch of crazy-arse shite that at this point to me, still makes no sense. wtf killing a goat & burying it with gemma? how were they planning to kill her? at first i thought she was going to be overcome w/ her outie's emotions after taking the crib apart and kill herself w/ the allen wrench but that part was never fully explained.
Cold Harbor was never satisfactorily explained for me. I get that the numbers were essentially tied to the Gemma experiences down below. And that the final test (Cold Harbor) was her putting the crib together, and I assume they were testing that with her as her biggest life trauma to see if the severance technology really does work on that deep of a level.
But my issue with that is they already knew that. That's literally what the severance chips do...separate the innie's COMPLETELY from the outie's. Mark S and Miss Casey literally have no clue who they are to each other, and they BOTH shared the trauma of losing a baby, being separated from each other, Mark losing his wife, etc. Yet they coexist on the Severance floor just fine.
I suspect the scene where Miss Casey is in the room watching the group is relevant to that. Like when she says those were the happiest 8 hours of her life or whatever, and she meant because she was around Mark and she inherently felt some connection to him. But even still, it doesn't explain why Cold Harbor was such a big deal. I know Lumon is a cult company (and maybe religion), but they ALL made it seem like CH would be some huge, dramatic, world-changing event. And all it seemed to be was confirmation that the tech they had been using for years worked like they thought it did. Hopefully we get a lot more exposition of that in S3.
quote:
scenes 10/10. you can't top those settings from the cold harbor where cobel grew up and the the depressing corporate building to the barren team building park.
The show is absolutely brilliantly shot. No question the cinematography is gorgeous.
quote:
storyline..i really enjoyed mark's conversation with himself on the last ep. both innie & outie brought up some great points and yes, mark's outie is the unintentional bad guy b/c he wants gemma back and at the end of the day won't be upset if reintegration doesn't happen. sucks for mark s.
Their conversation bothered me at first, but the more it went on the more sense it made. Mark S was absolutely right in questioning Mark on his intentions because he's the one driving the rescue of Gemma and once that happens Mark S is definitely not a priority to him. That's why I thought the way S2 ended was great, because in that moment that's absolutely the right decision for iMark to make because once he walks out that door with Gemma he is essentially dead. Adam Scott talked about that in the postcredits stuff about how iMark wanted to extend his life/time with Helly, even if was just ten more minutes.
quote:
i'm surprised at milchick. while we don't know what happened w/ him and the band at the end, the fact they humiliated him w/ those black face paintings should have struck a chord in him. he told drummond to devour feculence and mocked the kier animatronic so he grew a spine so why was he still so ruthless to the innies at the end?
The band thing bothered me so much. They even talked about it in the post credits stuff about how they tried to think of the wackiest shite they could, and someone mentioned a marching band and they knew they had to put it in there.
The problem is, that's exactly what it felt like for me...totally random and absent of any of the show's logic. And for a show as good and as intricate as this one, it just felt lazy to me.
Sure, we got some cool looking scenes, and Milchick was lighting up the screen (I absolutely love the actor). But it just makes literally no sense. Are all of the band members severed? Do they just practice all the time for this moment? If they arne't severed, surely they would've stopped playing and dancing once shite hits the fan and Milchick gets locked in the bathroom. And we see when he gets out that they are basically ready to fight, which leads me to believe that they are all severed and Dylan rallied them against 'the man."
It just made no sense. But hey, we got some great gifs out of it I guess.
Posted on 7/16/25 at 12:32 pm to CAD703X
quote:
and wtf were those cards?? gemma had one but why was milchick so desperate to get that one back that he invoked the OT contingency?
was burt a driver for lumon? did he pick people up to hand over to lumon or was he a mob guy in his former life?
was gemma the only 'innie' who never got to leave or are there others?
All good questions. The cards definitely deserve some explanation because they made a big deal out of it, and even went as far as revisiting it with the the card being returned later on. No idea on Burt. That angle was so fricking weird to me, but I rolled with it just because Walken was so good. And I think for a company as big as Lumon, you'd have to think there are more people than just Gemma. Hell, if anything, we know she was involved with like 25 "scenes" down there, and there were clearly a lot more than 25 rooms.
quote:
i dont really care about kobel's story arc, i think she's done;
She is definitely not done. Especially with the almost totally wasted episode of her retrieving her notebooks showing that she was actually the one that created the severance tech. She will be a big player moving forward I assume.
And that was another episode where the information we learn could've been handled in half the time or less. And I'm not saying that episode and the ORTBO episodes were bad episodes....they were good and I enjoyed them. They just felt like a lot of wasted time for me, especially in a show that is already such a slow burn.
quote:
but what happens w/ the innies now? lumon is a hostile environment so i think they would immediately kill them all unless they still need mark since he fricked up their moment at the end.
but..they can't kill them if the outie doesn't return to the building right?
Well iMark, Helly, and iDylan are all still inside the building. Only Irving and Gemma from our main group are out, and Irving doesn't have any idea about the innie stuff outside of the one hall he dreams about. Gemma will be the driver of next season IMO because she is the one who was herself in the sublevels, and so she'll remember all the heinous shite they've put her through (maybe not the specific rooms/tests, but the effects of them - like the sore mouth - and the fact that she's been kidnapped and detained against her will for a long time.
quote:
still not sure what they were trying to achieve other than to 'clone' gemma's mind to implant in someone else..i'm not sure what the mapping accomplished.
I'm not sure either, and they haven't said. But one of my theories was that it had something to do with what you said. A lot of the Kier mythology seems to be shrouded in immortality and legacy and that kind of stuff, to the point where I wouldn't be surprised if this was somehow to make the creators imortal in the sense that their minds could be transferred into (something) that could continue their legacies and lives (to some degree).
Or it may be nothing more than just the severed technology as it stands now and the worldwide implications of that (we've already seen it in use with women who want to skip the pain of childbirth).
I have some other issues and points to bring up, but this post is long enough for now.
This post was edited on 7/16/25 at 12:37 pm
Posted on 7/16/25 at 12:40 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
My biggest gripe, and got downvoted to death in the in season thread, because minor complaints were not allowed fwiw, was that the biggest event in Lumons history, their greatest accomplishment, what two seasons built up to, was just simply... making the severance process better? Give me a break. Just a major let down from a story perspective and also from very simply a "Yea that is in no way the greatest accomplishment in their history" prospective. Hell, coming up with a successful severance process in general is the much bigger deal. Or a successful implant. Or the fact that they have a massive running company/cult. It's like saying the invention of the v8 motor was the greatest automotive accomplishment ever, above actually inventing a running motor.
I followed along with both season discussion threads as I watched, and I noticed this as well (about not being able to criticize the show without being blasted).
And I saw some of your thoughts about what you said above and they were similar to mine as well. The "biggest moment in world history" buildup was certainly a letdown if Cold Harbor was just to test Gemma's innie with the crib to make sure the tech worked like they....already knew it did. That didn't make much sense to me at all.
Posted on 7/16/25 at 12:47 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:
suspect the scene where Miss Casey is in the room watching the group is relevant to that. Like when she says those were the happiest 8 hours of her life or whateve
forgot about that.
yes 2 things that really hit home with me:
- the first was when i realized at the end of the day, the innie gets in the elevator and instantly they're back at work again the next day. suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck. that would make me go crazy. outie mark ftw here. i wouldn't mind losing what i did for 8 hours a day at the office
- the second was gemma/ms casey made a statement that she was only allowed out for 30 minute periods.
like, as soon as the wellness session was over..back to cold storage. thats why her comment that being out for EIGHT ENTIRE HOURS and getting to watch other people interact was so strong to her. poor girl was totured far more than the others who had enough time during the day to think things through, make plans, form relationships...damn they frickED GEMMA HARD
even before we saw her enduring a bunch of fricking sadists in the various rooms. eta before the big S1 reveal, she seemed like such a minor character
This post was edited on 7/16/25 at 12:51 pm
Posted on 7/16/25 at 12:48 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:it was interrupted.
letdown if Cold Harbor was just to test Gemma's innie with the crib to make sure the tech worked like they....already knew it did. That didn't make much sense to me at all.
i think something big was about to happen hence eagon's FUUUUUUUUUCK comment. we just dont know what that was. spontaneous human combustion? would she grow a pouch on her belly?
what was the build up? they were definitely expecting something to occur more than just 'programming is holding' eta and who came up with 'cold harbor' as the end game name? smells like kobel.
eta2 why did outie irving know about the black hallway? was that explained?
This post was edited on 7/16/25 at 12:53 pm
Posted on 7/16/25 at 12:58 pm to CocomoLSU
Yea I bowed out of the in season thread after a few episodes until the finale because simply really really liking the show was not good enough. I mentioned that I hope they answer some questions and not be like LOST creating more and more. That was a big no no.
Followed the thread but didn't post after that. People are very defensive of this show. I get it, it's a good show.
Followed the thread but didn't post after that. People are very defensive of this show. I get it, it's a good show.
Posted on 7/16/25 at 1:21 pm to CAD703X
quote:
- the first was when i realized at the end of the day, the innie gets in the elevator and instantly they're back at work again the next day. suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck. that would make me go crazy. outie mark ftw here. i wouldn't mind losing what i did for 8 hours a day at the office
True, but if that's all you ever knew maybe it wouldn't be so bad. I mean, the innies had never seen the sky before, right?
quote:
- the second was gemma/ms casey made a statement that she was only allowed out for 30 minute periods. like, as soon as the wellness session was over..back to cold storage.
thats why her comment that being out for EIGHT ENTIRE HOURS and getting to watch other people interact was so strong to her. poor girl was totured far more than the others who had enough time during the day to think things through, make plans, form relationships...damn they frickED GEMMA HARD even before we saw her enduring a bunch of fricking sadists in the various rooms.
eta before the big S1 reveal, she seemed like such a minor character
Yeah. They discussed in the post credits of the finale about the Mark/Gemma coupling on the show, and how cool it was that we got to see four different versions of that couple in the finale. And that was pretty cool to see the different dynamics of that.
- Outie Mark and innie Gemma in the subfloor room
- Outie Mark and outie Gemma in the hallways
- Innie Mark and Miss Casey on the severed floor
- innie Mark and outie Gemma at the door
All in the span of a few minutes.
Posted on 7/16/25 at 1:43 pm to CocomoLSU
gemma is the chick from dollhouse!!!
my lord in heaven i'm a thicky whale omelet. just looked her up. i knew she looked familar.
does that woman ever age?
my lord in heaven i'm a thicky whale omelet. just looked her up. i knew she looked familar.
does that woman ever age?
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