re: LOST &quot;Dr. Linus&quot; S6.E7

Posted by davesdawgs

Georgia - Class of '75

Member since Oct 2008

20307 posts

Posted on 3/8/10 at 11:35 pm to OMLandshark

quote:
While Locke is indeed a candidate, I don't think that Locke was ever special. Its really tragic that I don't think it was and was just a gigantic life long con the Monster put Locke through.

Nods but I guess I consider Locke special if for no other reason that he is a true believer; Locke had unshaken faith that everyone who comes to the island does so to fulfill their destiny :) Ironically, I see John's faith was somewhat misguided in that he was probably healed of his paralysis not because of some magical healing property of the island but because he and all the survivors of Oceanic 815 were sent back in time before the accident that paralyzed John had occurred. In other words John's faith was at least partially based on a science that he didn't understand at the time.

This post was edited on 3/8/10 at 11:39 pm

Posted by GeauxElliott

Louisiana

Member since Jun 2007

3731 posts

Posted on 3/8/10 at 11:41 pm to OMLandshark

quote:
I came across a spoiler in season 5 that the writers rented a wooden ship, and this was early in the season (I'm guessing they just got filming the ship off shore out of the way). My prediction that the season would start with this. I was very disappointed by the beginning because that would have been awesome.

I'm sure it will still be awesome when they use it in the Ricardus or Richard episode.

Posted by OMLandshark

Member since Apr 2009

119977 posts

Posted on 3/9/10 at 12:05 am to davesdawgs

quote:
Nods but I guess I consider Locke special if for no other reason that he is a true believer; Locke had unshaken faith that everyone who comes to the island does so to fulfill their destiny :) Ironically, I see John's faith was somewhat misguided in that he was probably healed of his paralysis not because of some magical healing property of the island but because he and all the survivors of Oceanic 815 were sent back in time before the accident that paralyzed John had occurred. In other words John's faith was at least partially based on a science that he didn't understand at the time.

Locke did have a good idea what was going on on the Island, but he didn't have full comprehension that he was being played the entire time. Its really staggering in the series how accurate Locke was in this conversation:

quote:
Locke: I believe that I was being tested.
Jack: Tested?
Locke: Yeah, tested.
Jack: I think...
Locke: That's why you and I don't see eye-to-eye sometimes, Jack -- because you're a man of science.
Jack: Yeah, and what does that make you?
Locke: Me, well, I'm a man of faith. Do you really think all this is an accident -- that we, a group of strangers survived, many of us with just superficial injuries? Do you think we crashed on this place by coincidence -- especially, this place? We were brought here for a purpose, for a reason, all of us. Each one of us was brought here for a reason.
Jack: Brought here? And who brought us here, John?
Locke: The island. The island brought us here. This is no ordinary place, you've seen that, I know you have. But the island chose you, too, Jack. It's destiny.
Jack: Did you talk with Boone about destiny, John?
Locke: Boone was a sacrifice that the island demanded. What happened to him at that plane was a part of a chain of events that led us here -- that led us down a path -- that led you and me to this day, to right now.
Jack: And where does that path end, John?
Locke: The path ends at the hatch. The hatch, Jack -- all of it -- all of it happened so that we could open the hatch.
Jack: No, no, we're opening the hatch so that we can survive.
Locke: Survival is all relative, Jack.
Jack: I don't believe in destiny.
Locke: Yes, you do. You just don't know it yet.

All of this has come true, all but one. That quote is particularly relevant to Locke this season.

Posted by Muppet

Member since Aug 2007

50512 posts

Posted on 3/9/10 at 12:23 am to OMLandshark

Doesn't explain why Rose's cancer or Jin's sterility were cured.

ETA: Also, someone mentioned earlier that the bodies in the cave might be Bernard and Rose... why would they suddenly not time shift with the rest of the survivors?

This post was edited on 3/9/10 at 12:26 am

Posted by davesdawgs

Georgia - Class of '75

Member since Oct 2008

20307 posts

Posted on 3/9/10 at 12:28 am to OMLandshark

quote:
quote:
I don't know if this is an inaccuracy by the writers or intentional, but dynamite wasn't invented until some 20 years after the Black Rock supposedly left England.

Hasn't that only been said in "The LOST Experience"? I think the creators could get away with saying that isn't canon, since only like 5% of viewers are aware of it.

It might not be an oversight by the writers. It's possible that Richard has gone back in time multiple times to try and save the island/world retaining future knowledge such as how to create dynamite. For example let's say that the first time that Richard went back to 1900 he tried to persuade the captain of the Black Rock to change course to avoid the island to no avail. Then the next time he goes back he takes dynamite with him to blow up the Black Rock but that too fails because fate course corrects destiny by preventing the dynamite from exploding or because Richard gets clapped in irons again when a crew member reports these strange sticks that he has never seen before that we call dynamite.

Posted by OMLandshark

Member since Apr 2009

119977 posts

Posted on 3/9/10 at 12:31 am to Muppet

quote:
Doesn't explain why Rose's cancer or Jin's sterility were cured.

It clarifies that people had "superficial injuries" cured, so while they may have technically not been injuries, Locke still implies this within the conversation.

quote:
ETA: Also, someone mentioned earlier that the bodies in the cave might be Bernard and Rose... why would they suddenly not time shift with the rest of the survivors?

Probably the only people who didn't timeshift this time were the people in the immediate vicinity of the bomb.

Posted by Muppet

Member since Aug 2007

50512 posts

Posted on 3/9/10 at 12:33 am to OMLandshark

Sorry, that was in response to dave saying that locke was no longer paralyzed because time shifted to before his fall from the window... even though it's clear that when locke wasn't doing "what he was supposed to do," his legs began to fail him again

Posted by davesdawgs

Georgia - Class of '75

Member since Oct 2008

20307 posts

Posted on 3/9/10 at 12:35 am to Muppet

quote:
Doesn't explain why Rose's cancer or Jin's sterility were cured.

I believe Rose's cancer and Jin's sterility were cured/abated for the same reason Locke's paralysis was removed, all of the survivors of 815 went back in time. The flight departed from Sydney Australia on September 22, 2004, but it crashed on the island in 1996 because Desmond & Co. had been hitting the button keeping the island in a time-loop that sent the island back in time every 108 minutes. Thus none of the events/conditions that led to Locke's paralysis, Rose's cancer and Jin's sterility had happened yet.

Posted by Muppet

Member since Aug 2007

50512 posts

Posted on 3/9/10 at 12:40 am to davesdawgs

All right, let's assume I buy that. So why does Locke begin to become paralyzed again when he fails?

Posted by davesdawgs

Georgia - Class of '75

Member since Oct 2008

20307 posts

Posted on 3/9/10 at 12:44 am to Muppet

quote:
Sorry, that was in response to dave saying that locke was no longer paralyzed because time shifted to before his fall from the window... even though it's clear that when locke wasn't doing "what he was supposed to do," his legs began to fail him again

I remember the circumstances that you describe related to Locke. My only flimsy explanation is that perhaps as Locke lost faith, he was drifting back towards the destiny that led to his paralysis. Or maybe it was purely a psychological phenomenon analogous to a negative placebo. hehee

This post was edited on 3/9/10 at 12:45 am

Posted by Muppet

Member since Aug 2007

50512 posts

Posted on 3/9/10 at 12:51 am to davesdawgs

I don't know if it's that your explanations are too complicated to be interesting or that plots relying heavily on time travel are just generally lame to me at this point.

All I know is that if the secret to this show is some detailed temporal tapestry that requires a diagram to digest, it's going to ruin my life.

Posted by davesdawgs

Georgia - Class of '75

Member since Oct 2008

20307 posts

Posted on 3/9/10 at 1:02 am to OMLandshark

quote:
Locke did have a good idea what was going on on the Island, but he didn't have full comprehension that he was being played the entire time. Its really staggering in the series how accurate Locke was in this conversation:

quote:
Locke: I believe that I was being tested.
Jack: Tested?
Locke: Yeah, tested.
Jack: I think...
Locke: That's why you and I don't see eye-to-eye sometimes, Jack -- because you're a man of science.
Jack: Yeah, and what does that make you?
Locke: Me, well, I'm a man of faith. Do you really think all this is an accident -- that we, a group of strangers survived, many of us with just superficial injuries? Do you think we crashed on this place by coincidence -- especially, this place? We were brought here for a purpose, for a reason, all of us. Each one of us was brought here for a reason.
Jack: Brought here? And who brought us here, John?
Locke: The island. The island brought us here. This is no ordinary place, you've seen that, I know you have. But the island chose you, too, Jack. It's destiny.
Jack: Did you talk with Boone about destiny, John?
Locke: Boone was a sacrifice that the island demanded. What happened to him at that plane was a part of a chain of events that led us here -- that led us down a path -- that led you and me to this day, to right now.
Jack: And where does that path end, John?
Locke: The path ends at the hatch. The hatch, Jack -- all of it -- all of it happened so that we could open the hatch.
Jack: No, no, we're opening the hatch so that we can survive.
Locke: Survival is all relative, Jack.
Jack: I don't believe in destiny.
Locke: Yes, you do. You just don't know it yet.

All of this has come true, all but one. That quote is particularly relevant to Locke this season.

This kind of prophesy is what attracts converts to a religion or in the case rabid fans to LOST.

Perhaps it's a matter of semantics but I wouldn't say that Locke has been "played" the whole time. Jacob seemingly saved John's life after the fall that led to his paralysis and yes, Jacob guided Locke to the island but for an opportunity for redemption. Now, I certainly agree that MIB played Locke to get Locke to sacrifice himself allowing MIB to use Locke's body. Of course we met yet find out that Locke's sacrifice was not in vain assuming Jacob knew that MIB would use Locke's body leading to an outcome that MIB might not be expecting. :)

This post was edited on 3/9/10 at 1:05 am

Posted by OMLandshark

Member since Apr 2009

119977 posts

Posted on 3/9/10 at 1:06 am to davesdawgs

quote:
This kind of prophesy is what attracts converts to a religion or in the case rabid fans to LOST.

Perhaps it's a matter of semantics but I wouldn't say that Locke has been "played" the whole time. Jacob seemingly saved John's life after the fall that led to his paralysis and yes, Jacob guided Locke to the island but for an opportunity for redemption. Now, I certainly agree that MIB played Locke to get Locke to sacrifice himself allowing MIB to use Locke's body. Of course we met yet find out that Locke's sacrifice was not in vain assuming Jacob knew that MIB would use Locke's body leading to an outcome that MIB might not be expecting. :)

My mom started watching LOST last summer and she said that Locke is an idiot "Seriously he thinks the Island brought him here, that the Island sacrificed Boone? Locke is stupid and crazy." I didn't have the heart to tell her at the time that Locke was completely right.

Posted by davesdawgs

Georgia - Class of '75

Member since Oct 2008

20307 posts

Posted on 3/9/10 at 1:12 am to Muppet

quote:
All I know is that if the secret to this show is some detailed temporal tapestry that requires a diagram to digest, it's going to ruin my life.

Nah, I believe all of us will enjoy the final episodes regardless of how the questions are answered. Like you, I hope it doesn't take a physicist to figure it all out but there is no doubt that time travel is a significant aspect of the plot. For instance we know that Richard has not aged. A logical explanation is that he traveled back in time and has not yet reached the point in time when he went back.

Posted by davesdawgs

Georgia - Class of '75

Member since Oct 2008

20307 posts

Posted on 3/9/10 at 1:22 am to OMLandshark

quote:
My mom started watching LOST last summer and she said that Locke is an idiot "Seriously he thinks the Island brought him here, that the Island sacrificed Boone? Locke is stupid and crazy." I didn't have the heart to tell her at the time that Locke was completely right.

Yep, without are more scientific explanation saying such things would seem to be the rantings of a lunatic hahaa But as we have seen, Jacob planned for the Losties to come to the island and my theory about Boone and the others that died is that they were going to die anyway in the original/untampered timeline. In other words had Flight 815 landed safely, Boone was probably going to die soon by some other means. Desmond's gift was he could see fate's course corrections before they happened as in the case with Charlie. And we noticed that even after Flight 815 landed safely in the alternate timeline, Jack had to save Charlie from killing himself :) Is there any doubt that Charlie had an impending date with Destiny?

This post was edited on 3/9/10 at 1:25 am

Posted by noonan

Nassau Bay, TX

Member since Aug 2005

37010 posts

Posted on 3/9/10 at 2:43 am to davesdawgs

quote:
I see John's faith was somewhat misguided in that he was probably healed of his paralysis not because of some magical healing property of the island but because he and all the survivors of Oceanic 815 were sent back in time before the accident that paralyzed John had occurred.

why would you think this?

nvm. I saw your explaination.

This post was edited on 3/9/10 at 2:49 am

Posted by Uncle Stu

#AlbinoLivesMatter

Member since Aug 2004

33858 posts

Posted on 3/9/10 at 6:21 am to davesdawgs

quote:
there is no doubt that time travel is a significant aspect of the plot.

I think you've bought in waaaaaay too much to this. You've read so many various time loop theories, and reposted them here, you've confused yourself. LOST is more to do with fate and choice than some hot tub time hatch. It's a disservice to the show to just explain everything away with the Bill & Ted's time scheme - "......duuude, just remember after the battle of the bands to go back and leave spare keys in these bushes"

quote:
For instance we know that Richard has not aged. A logical explanation is that he traveled back in time

back, forwards & sideways too?

how is that he has not aged from the 50's to the 70's to present? Is he jumping forward in time with the rest? If he looks the exact same over the course of 60 years, he's doing alot of very strategic time skipping.

I really dont think you have it figured out at all

This post was edited on 3/9/10 at 6:22 am