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re: LOST "Dr. Linus" S6.E7
Posted on 3/10/10 at 6:55 am to Uncle Stu
Posted on 3/10/10 at 6:55 am to Uncle Stu
I had been meaning to post this for a few weeks now, but haven't had the time. But I've always thought Ben was going to wind up on Jacob's side. Y'all may have discussed this, but I haven't seen it. Benjamin was Jacob's 12(?) and final son in the Bible. (Perhaps his "final" son is important and means Ben will wind up being the protector of the island--he's my guess as of right now). And Benjamin's mother in the Bible(Rachel, I think) also died in childbirth, so it's obviously more than just a coincidence.
I haven't this in several weeks, but I believe the tribes/descendents of Jacob and Esau were lining up for a battle. I think it's clear that Jacob/MIB are Jacob/Esau figures, if not the actual Jacob/Esau themselves. There are just too many parallels. Also, they are Jesus/Satan figures, though more reminiscent of the Jesus/Satan in Paradise Lost than the Bible. The Satan is PL is logical, has a lot of the traits of Man and is somewhat sympathetic. Reminds me of the ambiguous way they've handled MIB, though after the episode with Sawyer where they referenced "Hell" 6-7 times, I think all chances of him being "good" were laid to rest.
Also neat that his "ladder" that episode descended down(Hell), while Jacob's (lighthouse stairs) ascended up(Heaven).
Jacob's Ladder in the Bible was a way angels could move between Heaven and Earth, and I've got to believe that how MIB plans to get off the island is representative of Jacob's Ladder somehow.
Again, I'm not saying at all that Jacob and MIB are the actual Jacob/Esau Jesus/Satan, but I think it's clear that they are at least literary representations.
I haven't this in several weeks, but I believe the tribes/descendents of Jacob and Esau were lining up for a battle. I think it's clear that Jacob/MIB are Jacob/Esau figures, if not the actual Jacob/Esau themselves. There are just too many parallels. Also, they are Jesus/Satan figures, though more reminiscent of the Jesus/Satan in Paradise Lost than the Bible. The Satan is PL is logical, has a lot of the traits of Man and is somewhat sympathetic. Reminds me of the ambiguous way they've handled MIB, though after the episode with Sawyer where they referenced "Hell" 6-7 times, I think all chances of him being "good" were laid to rest.
Also neat that his "ladder" that episode descended down(Hell), while Jacob's (lighthouse stairs) ascended up(Heaven).
Jacob's Ladder in the Bible was a way angels could move between Heaven and Earth, and I've got to believe that how MIB plans to get off the island is representative of Jacob's Ladder somehow.
Again, I'm not saying at all that Jacob and MIB are the actual Jacob/Esau Jesus/Satan, but I think it's clear that they are at least literary representations.
5
Posted on 3/10/10 at 7:14 am to Hot Carl
WIDMORE!!!!!!!
I fricking knew it!
I fricking knew it!
Posted on 3/10/10 at 7:18 am to Beastwood
hot carl- nice....im gonna stick with that one till later on at least. everyone else is making my fricking head spin!
Posted on 3/10/10 at 7:40 am to SaintsRbettrthanlsu1
I'm gonna go back and read this thread (from when the show started-on), but before I do I just wanted to pop in and say awesome, awesome show last night. Ben is one of my favorite characters and always has been (you too, Desmond). I was fiending for a little more Michael Emerson in my life, and in the show, and they delivered last night. Emerson is just good, man.
Nice job, Lost.
Nice job, Lost.
Posted on 3/10/10 at 8:03 am to Hot Carl
quote:
Hot Carl
that was intelligent, insightful, well thought out, and well put
question:
Who wrote it?
Posted on 3/10/10 at 8:10 am to Hot Carl
quote:
Also neat that his "ladder" that episode descended down(Hell), while Jacob's (lighthouse stairs) ascended up(Heaven).
Yeah, but the cave is Jacob's and the lighthouse is Esau's (MIB). (presumably)
FWIW, I've always called "MIB" Esau.
Mainly because I hate the name "MIB".
It reminds me of the stupid fricking movie.
This post was edited on 3/10/10 at 8:11 am
Posted on 3/10/10 at 8:15 am to wilceaux
quote:
the lighthouse is Esau's
how did you come to this conclusion?
Posted on 3/10/10 at 8:19 am to vorenus23
This might be Germans but I don't feel like reading the rest of this thread.
Did anybody else notice the Confederate flag patch on Alex's backpack? I loled.
Did anybody else notice the Confederate flag patch on Alex's backpack? I loled.
Posted on 3/10/10 at 8:23 am to Hot Carl
quote:
I haven't this in several weeks, but I believe the tribes/descendents of Jacob and Esau were lining up for a battle. I think it's clear that Jacob/MIB are Jacob/Esau figures, if not the actual Jacob/Esau themselves. There are just too many parallels. Also, they are Jesus/Satan figures, though more reminiscent of the Jesus/Satan in Paradise Lost than the Bible. The Satan is PL is logical, has a lot of the traits of Man and is somewhat sympathetic. Reminds me of the ambiguous way they've handled MIB, though after the episode with Sawyer where they referenced "Hell" 6-7 times, I think all chances of him being "good" were laid to rest.
It's interesting that Sayid followed "Esau" considering Esau is linked to the foundation of Islam while Jacob, or Israel, is obviously linked to the Jews and Christians.
AND if that is the case, are they stating that Muslims are evil?
Posted on 3/10/10 at 8:26 am to PortCityTiger24
quote:
Muslims are evil
Jack Sheppard & Jack Bauer
v
John "Smokie" Hussien & Sayid Jallah
hells yeah
Posted on 3/10/10 at 8:39 am to Uncle Stu
epic
Posted on 3/10/10 at 8:41 am to PortCityTiger24
literally, Bauer's farts would destroy Smokie, then he'd piss over all the dynamite and render it inert
game over
Lost ends
game over
Lost ends
Posted on 3/10/10 at 8:42 am to Uncle Stu
quote:
Jack Sheppard & Jack Bauer & Hulk Hogan
v
John "Smokie" Hussien & Sayid Jallah & The Iron Sheik
Better
Posted on 3/10/10 at 9:07 am to vorenus23
quote:
the lighthouse is Esau's
how did you come to this conclusion?
I am kinda leaning that way as well. I think the cave is Jacob's and the Lighthouse MIB's. I think each of them have this long, set list of names, and the game is to cross off as many names as possible from your opponent's list. Thus, MIB goes to the cave to cross out names, and Jacob to the lighthouse. Also, MIB throwing the rock into the water as an "inside joke" makes me believe this as well...as in Jacob would laugh when he saw it when he went back to his cave.
Also, Jacob leading Hurley and Jack to the lighthoust so Jack would destroy the mirrors which would "allow" someone (I'm guessing Whidmore) to get to the island...maybe the lighthouse or its powers (MIB's side) were blocking that someone (from Jacob's side) from coming to the island, and now that he indirectly got Jack to mess that up, the person can come. And maybe, in the same vein, MIB was doing something similar when the rock was taken off the scale and tossed into the water (or, it could simply have been a metaphor for Jacob being dead), so he has someone coming to the island as well. Thoughts?
I don't know...I'm just spitballing and trying to look at some obvious stuff and decipher mre.
This post was edited on 3/10/10 at 9:13 am
Posted on 3/10/10 at 9:09 am to Uncle Stu
FWIW I don't think MIB is Esau.
God told Jacob that he would make a great nation from him and changed his name to Israel. I think that Jacob represents God and his people rather than Biblical Jacob, and MIB is clearly Satan the deceiver, not Esau.
It was interesting that Jacob was eating during the scene on the beach with MIB, considering the Biblical Jacob made Esau sell his birthright for a bowl of soup. I still don't think MIB is Esau though.
God told Jacob that he would make a great nation from him and changed his name to Israel. I think that Jacob represents God and his people rather than Biblical Jacob, and MIB is clearly Satan the deceiver, not Esau.
It was interesting that Jacob was eating during the scene on the beach with MIB, considering the Biblical Jacob made Esau sell his birthright for a bowl of soup. I still don't think MIB is Esau though.
Posted on 3/10/10 at 9:20 am to PortCityTiger24
He represents the spirit of esau... That doesn't mean he has to mimic him in every way. I think applying "satan" to his deception is just applying a generality as well. every demon is a deceiver.
Posted on 3/10/10 at 9:23 am to theunknownknight
quote:
Anyone else notice the following:
Ilana stated there are 6 candidates still alive, presumably 4,8,15,16, 23,42.
Well that would be Locke, Hurley, Sawyer, Sayid, Jack, and Kwon.
Anyone see the oddity here? Locke is dead, yet he is still being considered a candidate by Ilana.
I did pick up on that. Don't forget that Jacob touched Ben right before he died. Could he have become Locke's replacement? But then again, Ilana would have no way of knowing that. I guess it certainly keeps hope alive that the real Locke can possibly be resurrected.
Posted on 3/10/10 at 9:25 am to Muppet
I guess I just don't understand the signifigance of the Spirit of Esau....is his goal just to get back at Jacob? Seems to me like his main agenda is to leave the Island for whatever reason. Esau wasn't really regarded as evil, so why choose him? And if he does represent Esau, it's basically a "Jews/Christians are good Islam is bad" type thing. I don't think they would go in that direction. We'll see.
Posted on 3/10/10 at 9:26 am to BamaFanInTigerland
quote:
I guess it certainly keeps hope alive that the real Locke can possibly be resurrected
I believe he will be
Posted on 3/10/10 at 9:31 am to PortCityTiger24
Like I said, I don't think it's a direct or literal parallel. I think the writers have jacob and esau in mind as an abstract, as far as their relationship and general contrasting philosophies. But I can't imagine it has anything to do with organized religion. Remember, mib is only the "bad guy" in the context of the island.
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