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re: LOST "Dr. Linus" S6.E7
Posted on 3/12/10 at 12:03 pm to OMLandshark
Posted on 3/12/10 at 12:03 pm to OMLandshark
We have no idea how much time passed between Juliet falling into the well and Juliet hitting jughead. Enough time to evacuate? Enough time for Richard to watch the losties "die" before his eyes?
2
Posted on 3/12/10 at 12:08 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Yes. Jughead split the timeline. There was this science article that claimed that this is scientifically feasible, but I'm having trouble finding it.
this could be the case, but I've yet to see anyone post evidence from the show to support this
Posted on 3/12/10 at 12:22 pm to Doc Lou
quote:
Enough time for Richard to watch the losties "die" before his eyes?
This is something else that has been irking me. I'm having a hard time guessing what he was referring to unless he did perhaps watch the explosion.
Posted on 3/12/10 at 12:29 pm to Decatur
I'm thinking (or hoping) this will be clarified in Ep. 9.
Posted on 3/12/10 at 12:32 pm to Doc Lou
quote:
Enough time for Richard to watch the losties "die" before his eyes?
refresh me?
when/under what context did he say this?
Posted on 3/12/10 at 12:57 pm to Uncle Stu
quote:
Enough time for Richard to watch the losties "die" before his eyes?
refresh me?
when/under what context did he say this?
I think Richard told Sun this toward the end of season 5 when she showed him the picture of Jin and company with Dharma from back in the 1970's....but I may be wrong on that.
Posted on 3/12/10 at 1:05 pm to TotallyTigers
Ok try and stay with me on this one...I might actually confuse myself.
Richard says he watched them all die, but the bomb goes off and they are "transported" back to current time. So either they really did change the past or they are still in another reality.
The one thing that nobody is talking about is that 1977 - the present still had to happen (i.e. - the purge still had to take place, plane still had to crash, etc.) I think that's been the one confusing element is that even with the bomb going off Ben still had to take over the Dharma camp UNLESS they actually changed the past which by all indication in the show is that they can't.
So my theory is that maybe from the point the bomb went off (or didn't) it could have split 3 ways since Richard said he watched them die prior to the bomb.
Sorry...lots of thoughts that I realize are about as clear as mud (much like the show)
Richard says he watched them all die, but the bomb goes off and they are "transported" back to current time. So either they really did change the past or they are still in another reality.
The one thing that nobody is talking about is that 1977 - the present still had to happen (i.e. - the purge still had to take place, plane still had to crash, etc.) I think that's been the one confusing element is that even with the bomb going off Ben still had to take over the Dharma camp UNLESS they actually changed the past which by all indication in the show is that they can't.
So my theory is that maybe from the point the bomb went off (or didn't) it could have split 3 ways since Richard said he watched them die prior to the bomb.
Sorry...lots of thoughts that I realize are about as clear as mud (much like the show)
Posted on 3/12/10 at 1:06 pm to TotallyTigers
quote:This is pretty much it I think.
I think Richard told Sun this toward the end of season 5 when she showed him the picture of Jin and company with Dharma from back in the 1970's....but I may be wrong on that.
And OML - you never answered me about how it was possible for Jughead to split the timeline if it always happened? If it always happened and was supposed to happen because "whatever happened happened" then how does it split the timeline?
It seems it would only split the timeline if it were something new, something not supposed to happen, a "variable".
I agree with the previos post that it is possible that Jacob's death ended the "whatever happened happened" rule alowing the losties to change things. Hence the split.
Posted on 3/12/10 at 1:10 pm to TotallyTigers
quote:
I think Richard told Sun this toward the end of season 5 when she showed him the picture of Jin and company with Dharma from back in the 1970's....but I may be wrong on that.
He said: "30 years ago I watched them all die"
Easiest assumption is that he saw the Jughead explosion but I don't think he was anywhere near it when it happened. He could have just put two and two together and assumed they died in the explosion but how would be even know they were on that part of the island is he himself was at the temple with young Ben.
What gets me is that he does not bring it up the next time he sees the Dharma Losties. No comments to them like, "WTF, how did you survive a nuclear blast?"
Posted on 3/12/10 at 1:21 pm to TigerInBamaLand
Juliet said "It worked". Yall are ridiculously trying to overcomplicate things. The worst theorists in LOST are the ones who overcomplicate the show.
Posted on 3/12/10 at 1:27 pm to OMLandshark
Ok - but that still doesn't answer my question.
I'm not even saying that can't be the answer - maybe it is - I'm just wondering that if the bomb always went off then how could it cause a split?
Meh - it's no big deal anyway
I'm not even saying that can't be the answer - maybe it is - I'm just wondering that if the bomb always went off then how could it cause a split?
Meh - it's no big deal anyway
Posted on 3/12/10 at 1:41 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Juliet said "It worked"
you theorizing that she could see the alternate timeline?
Posted on 3/12/10 at 1:46 pm to Uncle Stu
quote:
you theorizing that she could see the alternate timeline?
I believe that is the going theory. Much like Desmond, Juliet was apparently exposed to a shite-ton of radiation/energy and probably got unstuck in time and her consciousness was able to jump back and forth (differs from Desmond's case in that she jumped back and forth to the alt timeline rather than the past).
This post was edited on 3/12/10 at 1:47 pm
Posted on 3/12/10 at 1:49 pm to Decatur
quote:A lot of people (including me) expect to see her "going dutch" for coffee in the sideways world at some point.
I believe that is the going theory.
Posted on 3/12/10 at 1:51 pm to Decatur
quote:
What gets me is that he does not bring it up the next time he sees the Dharma Losties. No comments to them like, "WTF, how did you survive a nuclear blast?"
Agreed.
Posted on 3/12/10 at 1:52 pm to Uncle Stu
quote:
Uncle Stu
WTF is going on in here Stu?
What direction have people gone with theories?
Posted on 3/12/10 at 1:54 pm to Doc Lou
quote:
I'm thinking (or hoping) this will be clarified in Ep. 9.
Maybe they can answer it in the extra 6 minutes that we get for this episode.
Posted on 3/12/10 at 1:54 pm to TigerInBamaLand
quote:
"going dutch" for coffee
I hope this is code for "tongue scraping Kate's puff sushi"
Posted on 3/12/10 at 2:04 pm to Uncle Stu
As do I Stu, as do I.
Posted on 3/12/10 at 2:06 pm to Decatur
I have been watching all the seasons of LOST over the past few weeks and have finally caught up to the most recent episode today.
I obviously haven't read every thread that has been made on LOST and I have to ask if anyone has ever brought up the name David Lewis in terms of how the timelines could all be explained?
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on any of the following. It's been a while since I studied modal logic and time theory, although I was passionate about it as an undergrad and even won an award for best philosophical essay at UA when I was a senior. It was on the theory of whether objects endure or perdure through time (I argued that perdurance was correct FWIW). Every time I see timelines I can't help but think back to my experience with the philosophy of time and modal logic (possible world arguments).
David Lewis was an incredibly gifted philosopher who taught at Princeton and at UCLA. I was just reading the Wiki on him to freshen up my thoughts about him since it had been so long since I had studied time theory. His main philosophical contribution was called modal realism. In short, modal realism states that there are infinitely many concretely existing and causally isolated possible worlds are as real as the actual world. Our possible world is just one of these possible worlds. So maybe these timeline are nothing more than a glimpse into other possible worlds. It's not really ground breaking or anything and has probably already been mentioned by many others. Just thought I'd throw that out there in case it hasn't been discussed.
Also interesting is that David Lewis argued that time travel would only be possible if perdurance is the correct way to view objects persistence. In short, perdurance would say that an object has temporal parts. Everything would be four dimensional. The identity of the object would be the sum of all it's temporal parts and the physical form it would hold at those points in time. This is opposed to endurantism which would say that an object is wholly present at every moment of its existence.
I have no doubt glossed over a subtlety or ten, but I think that basically captures what is going on. I just had to throw this stuff out there because ever since Desmond was zapping back and forth between his "temporal parts", I can't stop thinking that the creators of the show are coming from a "possible world" scenario and definitely assume that perdurance is the way people (objects, etc.) exist. Basically all of Desmond is the sum of his temporal parts between conception and death. His consciousness was traveling between his temporal parts.
The modal realism (possible worlds) obviously seeps in with the side flashes from season 6.
Interestingly, Lewis was very connected to Australia and visited there once a year. Coincidence?
If you want to know more about modal realism or perdurance and time travel, check out Lewis' work.
I obviously haven't read every thread that has been made on LOST and I have to ask if anyone has ever brought up the name David Lewis in terms of how the timelines could all be explained?
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on any of the following. It's been a while since I studied modal logic and time theory, although I was passionate about it as an undergrad and even won an award for best philosophical essay at UA when I was a senior. It was on the theory of whether objects endure or perdure through time (I argued that perdurance was correct FWIW). Every time I see timelines I can't help but think back to my experience with the philosophy of time and modal logic (possible world arguments).
David Lewis was an incredibly gifted philosopher who taught at Princeton and at UCLA. I was just reading the Wiki on him to freshen up my thoughts about him since it had been so long since I had studied time theory. His main philosophical contribution was called modal realism. In short, modal realism states that there are infinitely many concretely existing and causally isolated possible worlds are as real as the actual world. Our possible world is just one of these possible worlds. So maybe these timeline are nothing more than a glimpse into other possible worlds. It's not really ground breaking or anything and has probably already been mentioned by many others. Just thought I'd throw that out there in case it hasn't been discussed.
Also interesting is that David Lewis argued that time travel would only be possible if perdurance is the correct way to view objects persistence. In short, perdurance would say that an object has temporal parts. Everything would be four dimensional. The identity of the object would be the sum of all it's temporal parts and the physical form it would hold at those points in time. This is opposed to endurantism which would say that an object is wholly present at every moment of its existence.
I have no doubt glossed over a subtlety or ten, but I think that basically captures what is going on. I just had to throw this stuff out there because ever since Desmond was zapping back and forth between his "temporal parts", I can't stop thinking that the creators of the show are coming from a "possible world" scenario and definitely assume that perdurance is the way people (objects, etc.) exist. Basically all of Desmond is the sum of his temporal parts between conception and death. His consciousness was traveling between his temporal parts.
The modal realism (possible worlds) obviously seeps in with the side flashes from season 6.
Interestingly, Lewis was very connected to Australia and visited there once a year. Coincidence?
If you want to know more about modal realism or perdurance and time travel, check out Lewis' work.
This post was edited on 3/12/10 at 2:10 pm
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