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Posted on 9/11/16 at 9:27 pm to Backinthe615
quote:
and the "Michael Corleone says hello" line.
To me, this is the biggest plot hole. It makes absolutely no sense.
The Scene.
This post was edited on 9/11/16 at 9:34 pm
Posted on 9/11/16 at 9:39 pm to NoNameTiger
quote:
What plot holes?
Well, for one, it shows Michael's revenge killing of Fabrizzio.
Maybe not really a plot hole. More of a loose end tied up.
Posted on 9/11/16 at 9:57 pm to Backinthe615
This!
Posted on 9/11/16 at 10:44 pm to Backinthe615
Michael had no idea Fredo betrayed him...
When Fredo slipped up about Johnny Ola it looked like MC was sucker punched in the balls.
Had no idea it was his brother, knew it was from inside, but not his brother
When Fredo slipped up about Johnny Ola it looked like MC was sucker punched in the balls.
Had no idea it was his brother, knew it was from inside, but not his brother
Posted on 9/11/16 at 11:23 pm to Backinthe615
quote:
Havana? I think Michael had suspicions about Fredo that were confirmed at the bar when Fredo slipped up about Johnny Ola.
That is what happened. Watch Michael's face when Fredo says Johnny Ola after Fredo earlier said he didn't know Ola.
That was the tell.
Posted on 9/12/16 at 1:28 am to MaroonWhite
I always assumed that Roth ordered the Rosato brothers to kill Pentangeli but told them to make it seem like Michael had ordered it.
Posted on 9/12/16 at 6:41 am to Decker
Is that not what happened? That's exactly what I've always thought. Michael never ordered Pentangelli murdered, it was Roth.
Posted on 9/12/16 at 9:06 am to Decker
quote:
I always assumed that Roth ordered the Rosato brothers to kill Pentangeli but told them to make it seem like Michael had ordered it.
Yes. It was Roth.
He knew that Frankie Five Angels Pantangeli was frustrated with Michael. Roth could take out Pantangeli, expand into his territory with Carmine and Tony Rosato, and put the blame on Michael (avoiding repercussions from the Five Families).
It ended up working even better for Roth, as Frankie survived and the attempted hit by "Michael" pushed him towards testifying for the Feds. (Until Michael blackmailed him by threatening his brother.)
Posted on 9/12/16 at 9:08 am to Decker
quote:
I always assumed that Roth ordered the Rosato brothers to kill Pentangeli but told them to make it seem like Michael had ordered it.
That's the way I always understood it.
Posted on 9/12/16 at 9:10 am to Wimp Lo
quote:
Is that not what happened? That's exactly what I've always thought. Michael never ordered Pentangelli murdered, it was Rot
Right, and I even always thought Pentangelli figured that out in the end. It's been a while since Ive seen it, but something about the conversation he and Tom had before he killed himself, he realized he had been used by Roth.
Posted on 9/12/16 at 9:14 am to Fewer Kilometers
quote:
He knew that Frankie Five Angels Pantangeli was frustrated with Michael. Roth could take out Pantangeli, expand into his territory with Carmine and Tony Rosato, and put the blame on Michael (avoiding repercussions from the Five Families).
How would Roth know that Pantangeli was upset with current leadership?
Oh yeah, Fredo
Posted on 9/12/16 at 9:41 am to lsuroadie
quote:
When Fredo slipped up about Johnny Ola
This is probably being nit-picky, but this has always bothered me. It seems like of course Fredo knew who Johnny Ola was because Fredo was always involved in the family business, and Roth (and probably Ola) had done business with Vito. It makes no sense that Michael wouldn't know that.
This post was edited on 9/12/16 at 9:43 am
Posted on 9/12/16 at 9:52 am to DrewTheEngineer
quote:
This is probably being nit-picky, but this has always bothered me. It seems like of course Fredo knew who Johnny Ola was because Fredo was always involved in the family business, and Roth (and probably Ola) had done business with Vito. It makes no sense that Michael wouldn't know that.
but he has previously stated that he hadn't known Ola.
Posted on 9/12/16 at 10:27 am to Dire Wolf
quote:
but he has previously stated that he hadn't known Ola.
This. Fredo made a point of saying he "didn't know those guys". Which was a red flag from the start (since everyone in the family would know OF Roth, even if they'd never met him).
Posted on 9/12/16 at 10:37 am to Decker
quote:
I always assumed that Roth ordered the Rosato brothers to kill Pentangeli but told them to make it seem like Michael had ordered it.
That's exactly what happened. Roth was creating a division in the Corleone family and setting them against each other. And Pentangeli fell for it. That's why he turned state's witness, changed his mind, and then killed himself in an attempt to preserve his honor.
If that makes no sense to you then there are entire subplots to the movie that you didn't understand.
Posted on 9/12/16 at 11:04 am to Peazey
It doesn't completely jive because they were attempting to kill Pentangeli. I get how the resulting division benefitted Roth, but not how it would've had the hit been successful.
He can't turn on them if he's dead.
He can't turn on them if he's dead.
This post was edited on 9/12/16 at 11:06 am
Posted on 9/12/16 at 11:20 am to Backinthe615
quote:
He can't turn on them if he's dead.
If he's dead, it appears to the Corleone family associates that Micheal had killed one of his own for minor disrespect. It also weakens the family's hold on Frankie's territory, opening it up for the Rosato brothers. Roth appears innocent while the Corleone's take a major hit.
Posted on 9/12/16 at 11:30 am to Fewer Kilometers
Ok, but that perception was still there, even moreso, with him being alive and blaming Michael. Not trying to be contrarian, it just seems that the viewer has to write in the blanks for that scene to make sense.
His suicide was also partly to protect his family, per he and Hagen's conversation about the wealthy failing in rebellion against the Romans.
And some trivia: if not for a contract dispute, Fat Clemenza was going to play Frank's role. Pentangeli was created in his absense.
His suicide was also partly to protect his family, per he and Hagen's conversation about the wealthy failing in rebellion against the Romans.
And some trivia: if not for a contract dispute, Fat Clemenza was going to play Frank's role. Pentangeli was created in his absense.
This post was edited on 9/12/16 at 11:31 am
Posted on 9/12/16 at 11:36 am to dpd901
quote:
It is never clarified anywhere what exactly Fredo had done to betray Michael specifically. I have searched and searched for this cause those things drive me insane.
I thought Fredo either snuck the hitters into the compound or at least directed them towards a less guarded entrance route.
The thing I always wondered is who killed the shooters? The only person it could have been was Fredo, so that makes him kind of a badass.
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