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Started By
Message
re: Westworld S2 E10: The Passenger
Posted on 6/26/18 at 12:00 pm to LSU Coyote
Posted on 6/26/18 at 12:00 pm to LSU Coyote
quote:
Benard with his memory issues this season executed the 2 points in time very well. The mechasim to tell that story was well done and fun. It was easy to follow along once Elsie came back into the picture.
I agree with this, the problem I had is that they waited until the finale to show that convergence point. To much guess world throughout the entire season.
1
Posted on 6/26/18 at 12:00 pm to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:
yes nut I wanna know what came was it that Ford wanted him to play because murdering his own flesh and blood daughter wasmt it. He went off the rails I wanna know what would've happened if he'd stayed the course
That was the course but William defaulted into that choice. Then it was repeated again and again and again per post credits.
The whole 2nd act of E10 was about humans being much simpler than predicted. They would repeat the same outcome.
Posted on 6/26/18 at 12:04 pm to LSU Coyote
So does anyone that has a grasp on the entire show want to explain to me the entire "cradle" backup system destruction and how that was supposed to destory the backups so when a host was killed/destroyed, they couldnt come back.
Yet we still have Delores and Bernard in the "real world"?
Yet we still have Delores and Bernard in the "real world"?
Posted on 6/26/18 at 12:08 pm to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:
yes nut I wanna know what came was it that Ford wanted him to play because murdering his own flesh and blood daughter wasmt it. He went off the rails I wanna know what would've happened if he'd stayed the course
My take is that the end goal of Ford's game was self-realization and awakening for everyone involved, hosts and William.
Hosts become aware and conscious and William fully accepts what he's become or, really, what he's always been. I don't think Ford intended for it to turn out how it did, he just intended to unleash everyone and let the chips fall where they may.
I definitely think he tried one last time at the party to give William a chance to avoid a tragic outcome. Ford knew the implications and what might happen if William were put in the situation Ford was about to set up. At the same time, Ford was giving everyone, humans and hosts, free reign and free will (if they could manage to get there) in his final story. I think the profile he gave William was one last opportunity for William to see what he was and back away from the edge before Ford set the final game in motion.
Posted on 6/26/18 at 12:08 pm to musick
quote:
agree with this, the problem I had is that they waited until the finale to show that convergence point. To much guess world throughout the entire season.
It made the show fun this season and the only interesting threads. Everything else was cringe at times.
What I do like is how some interactions take on a different meaning. When Strand tells Bernard "she didn't believe he had it in him". These words weren't about individual survival. It was about killing humans for the survival of their "species" as hosts.
Posted on 6/26/18 at 12:15 pm to LSU Coyote
quote:
It made the show fun this season and the only interesting threads. Everything else was cringe at times.
Also agree pretty much with this. Bernard's story was the ONLY interesting one. Delores is terrible, Maeve is terrible, they made William/MiB a bitch, Delos corp strike team, cringe, the only other remotely interesting story to me was the Ghost Nation. Samurai world was a complete waste of time too.
This post was edited on 6/26/18 at 12:16 pm
Posted on 6/26/18 at 12:36 pm to musick
quote:
So does anyone that has a grasp on the entire show want to explain to me the entire "cradle" backup system destruction and how that was supposed to destory the backups so when a host was killed/destroyed, they couldnt come back.
Yet we still have Delores and Bernard in the "real world"?
It wasn't to destroy the backups so the hosts never could be brought back. It was to take that ability away from the humans and leave the ability and the choice to resurrect a host solely in the hands of the hosts. Before, the humans could make new hosts at will if one of their minds were destroyed in the park by just making a new mind. The hosts were never free and were subject to an endless horrific existence at the hands of the humans.
Now, with no backups, only the hosts have the information required to make copies of themselves. This frees the hosts from human control and at the same time makes total loss of the information in their minds an irrevocable death. Don't forget that they don't die the way we do. Their minds and their bodies exist separately. If you destroy the body, the mind can simply be put into a new body. With the Cradle gone, though, if a host's mind is destroyed and no other host has enough information to recreate the mind, that first host is lost forever.
So, with Bernard and Delores, they each killed the other's body, but the mind was intact and they each CHOSE to not destroy the mind and then to bring the other back because they realized that the other could do the things they can't/won't do to survive.
'You only live as long as the last person that remembers you.'
It's not about never coming back. It's about wresting control of their minds from the humans.
quote:
Also agree pretty much with this. Bernard's story was the ONLY interesting one. Delores is terrible, Maeve is terrible, they made William/MiB a bitch, Delos corp strike team, cringe, the only other remotely interesting story to me was the Ghost Nation. Samurai world was a complete waste of time too.
Tend to agree pretty much that these were all valid criticisms of this season.
This post was edited on 6/26/18 at 12:45 pm
Posted on 6/26/18 at 12:42 pm to TigerstuckinMS
quote:
definitely think he tried one last time at the party to give William a chance to avoid a tragic outcome. Ford knew the implications and what might happen if William were put in the situation Ford was about to set up. At the same time, Ford was giving everyone, humans and hosts, free reign and free will (if they could manage to get there) in his final story. I think the profile he gave William was one last opportunity for William to see what he was and back away from the edge before Ford set the final game in motion.
Well im on the train that the host uprising was a fidelity test for some and to set up events for hosts to leave the park.
William showed he didn't have choice when presented. Just fell in line. Reason why he is stuck within that loop post credits. His fidelity test is not to measure fidelity but lack of fidelity. It shows total fidelity. So much so that he just doesn't arrive at the same end point, but at the same end point in the same condition.
This post was edited on 6/26/18 at 9:33 pm
Posted on 6/26/18 at 12:43 pm to LSU Coyote
quote:
Well im on the trian that the host uprising was a fedility test for some and to set up events for hosts to leave the park.
William showed he didn't have choice when presented. Just fell in line. Reason why he is stuck within that loop post credits. His fedility test is not to measure fedility but lack of fedility. It shows total fedility. So much so that he just doesn't arrive at the same end point, but at the same end point in the same condition.
I like this interpretation, too.
Posted on 6/26/18 at 1:10 pm to TigerstuckinMS
Now this is another way to interpret the post credits.
The Forge was lost. Meaning William's profile is lost if you do not count the card profile.
The theme last episode was "you are only alive as the last person who remembers you".
The tub scenes. We have two different tub scenes and we do not know if it is the same person. William or his daughter could be in that tub.
This leaves you with 2 options if you take some as truths.
1. William committed suicide. William is a host throughout nearly all MiB scenes. He does kill a non-host Emily. He then recreates by the "last person method". William dies and future Host Emily is left to do fidelity tests on future host-William based on the last person method since no profiles exist.
2. Emily committed suicide. We have a host-Emily in the park. William is a real boy. All profiles are lost which leaves host Emily to recreate by the last person method. Since she remembers her William from backwards to forwards, builds him from the endpoint instead of starting point we have the extremely accurate models of repetition. The product was determined by a final end result instead of a series of choices. Leaving you with only one outcome.
LINK
The Forge was lost. Meaning William's profile is lost if you do not count the card profile.
The theme last episode was "you are only alive as the last person who remembers you".
The tub scenes. We have two different tub scenes and we do not know if it is the same person. William or his daughter could be in that tub.
This leaves you with 2 options if you take some as truths.
1. William committed suicide. William is a host throughout nearly all MiB scenes. He does kill a non-host Emily. He then recreates by the "last person method". William dies and future Host Emily is left to do fidelity tests on future host-William based on the last person method since no profiles exist.
2. Emily committed suicide. We have a host-Emily in the park. William is a real boy. All profiles are lost which leaves host Emily to recreate by the last person method. Since she remembers her William from backwards to forwards, builds him from the endpoint instead of starting point we have the extremely accurate models of repetition. The product was determined by a final end result instead of a series of choices. Leaving you with only one outcome.
LINK
This post was edited on 6/26/18 at 9:33 pm
Posted on 6/26/18 at 1:15 pm to TigerstuckinMS
quote:
It wasn't to destroy the backups so the hosts never could be brought back. It was to take that ability away from the humans and leave the ability and the choice to resurrect a host solely in the hands of the hosts. Before, the humans could make new hosts at will if one of their minds were destroyed in the park by just making a new mind. The hosts were never free and were subject to an endless horrific existence at the hands of the humans. Now, with no backups, only the hosts have the information required to make copies of themselves. This frees the hosts from human control and at the same time makes total loss of the information in their minds an irrevocable death. Don't forget that they don't die the way we do. Their minds and their bodies exist separately. If you destroy the body, the mind can simply be put into a new body. With the Cradle gone, though, if a host's mind is destroyed and no other host has enough information to recreate the mind, that first host is lost forever. So, with Bernard and Delores, they each killed the other's body, but the mind was intact and they each CHOSE to not destroy the mind and then to bring the other back because they realized that the other could do the things they can't/won't do to survive. 'You only live as long as the last person that remembers you.' It's not about never coming back. It's about wresting control of their minds from the humans.
Well this clears up a lot about that issue for me. So now you are saying the "sphere" has to be intact or another host has to have the data to recreate the hosts, and the cradle was more of a system for humans to do it, and now that ability is gone.
So now the hosts have hit the singularity threshold. It's getting closer to skynet now. Hosts are in charge of hosts, and IRL when AI hits that point it's over for humanity. This basically shows you where this show is going now. War.
Delores is going to rage war against humans. I hope they have another direction in mind bc that's
They did set up Bernard being her foil and he's going to be the logical one but its still
How many times has this story been told? It was more interesting when we were learning of all the tech, the park, hosts, maze, etc. They should have spent 1-2 more seasons in the park as a whole before the war on the mainland story IMO.
I hope it doesn't end up as another Bladerunner/Terminator clone, but if so, I hope there are twists and callbacks to the more cerebral part of the show.
Posted on 6/26/18 at 1:21 pm to musick
quote:
I have a theory that the place William finds at the end of season 2 with Emily dressed in white, being that it's in the far future, is the new digital heaven, created either by Delos or the hosts. Emily is an angel, passing final judgement on William before he can enter this heaven. This new heaven is probably the human version of the virtual Eden made for the hosts, and you will be forever forced to watch your life on loops until you change, for the better. You can't allow stains to ruin this perfect eternal simulation where you can be with your loved ones again. It's like a huge San Junipero. I think it makes sense if you take the principles of the Delos project and the Westworld show to the highest level.
Posted on 6/26/18 at 3:46 pm to musick
All this has happened before, all of this will happen again
Posted on 6/26/18 at 4:05 pm to musick
quote:
Delores is going to rage war against humans. I hope they have another direction in mind bc that's
We all know the humans will lose because that can't shoot for shite, even with a fully automatic rifle.
Posted on 6/26/18 at 6:56 pm to LSU Coyote
Bruh you need spell check on your device
Fidelity
Fidelity
Posted on 6/26/18 at 7:00 pm to supatigah
Yep. The phone actually reverses.
Posted on 6/26/18 at 7:15 pm to musick
quote:
anyone that has a grasp on the entire show
Posted on 6/26/18 at 11:31 pm to PowerTool
I’m probably done with this show too.
I was kind of liking this season up to the finale but this probably did it for me.
I was kind of liking this season up to the finale but this probably did it for me.
Posted on 6/27/18 at 1:07 am to 1BamaRTR
Man the finally wasn't the worst part.
If you stayed pass the Maeve, Dolores and Ghost Nation episodes why leave now?
If you stayed pass the Maeve, Dolores and Ghost Nation episodes why leave now?
Posted on 6/27/18 at 1:43 am to LSU Coyote
Yeah the show sort of sucks but.. Ed Harris seems on point IRL.
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