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Message
re: Why the hate for Jaxson Hayes?
Posted on 6/21/19 at 9:10 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 6/21/19 at 9:10 am to SlowFlowPro
Despite our disagreements about Garlands potential, I am in 100% agreement with you here.
Hayes is a project, one that requires a lot “if this develops, than this could happen” for pairing with a player that has a lot of those same questions. Which dramatically raises the probability of error. And when I start thinking about roster and cap management down the line as these players get more expensive, I have to ask if this guy only hits his median projection, is he someone you spend a relatively high second contract on? Or would you prefer that to go to a guy like Hunter or Garland that provide skill sets of more scarcity but with equal upside and a more natural fit with our core players?
I hope he can switch out onto guards and hit threes in a couple seasons. Get better at rebounding and notably get the fouls down. But history tells you that it is rare for a basically non-shooting big to turn into a Myles Turner.
Hayes is a project, one that requires a lot “if this develops, than this could happen” for pairing with a player that has a lot of those same questions. Which dramatically raises the probability of error. And when I start thinking about roster and cap management down the line as these players get more expensive, I have to ask if this guy only hits his median projection, is he someone you spend a relatively high second contract on? Or would you prefer that to go to a guy like Hunter or Garland that provide skill sets of more scarcity but with equal upside and a more natural fit with our core players?
I hope he can switch out onto guards and hit threes in a couple seasons. Get better at rebounding and notably get the fouls down. But history tells you that it is rare for a basically non-shooting big to turn into a Myles Turner.
0
Posted on 6/21/19 at 9:11 am to saints5021
quote:
60 minutes a game.
Wrong sport Mr. Saints
Posted on 6/21/19 at 9:12 am to saints5021
The raptors have a bunch of shooters on their team the pelicans do not
Posted on 6/21/19 at 9:13 am to ColeLSU
Bol Bol won't play more than two seasons.
Book it
Book it
Posted on 6/21/19 at 9:14 am to Saintsntigers04
quote:
Biggest issue for me is that a traditional center is no longer needed in the league
He's not a traditional center. Goga is. Goga is much more like Patrick Ewing than Hayes will ever be.
Hayes is what new centers in the NBA look like. 7 footers who are very athletic, protect the rim at a high level since the floor is spaced and getting to the rim is easier for guards now, and is capable of switching out on the perimeter and forcing tough shots from guards.
Hayes fits that bill.
Goga doesn't
No one really cares about their athletic 5 center scoring on offense anything outside of rim runs and put backs, if they are playing defense at an elite level. Scoring comes from the guards and wings, everyone knows that. If they can hit an open jump shot, whether from 15' or from 3 point land, that's an added bonus.
This post was edited on 6/21/19 at 9:15 am
Posted on 6/21/19 at 9:18 am to saints5021
quote:
Did the Raptors not just win the finals with a traditional center? I know Gasol is shooting more 3s, but he is not athletic by any means.
The Center position is less valued, but is absolutely needed when teams go to the half court offense. You can't play small ball 60 minutes a game
It is valued, it is needed, but it’s market cost is at an all time low. And it’s ranked near the bottom of core roster importance imo. Which to me is why unless it is a transitional talent, or the alternatives are that bad, you don’t really take centers top ten anymore.
All conference finals teams had relatively little major assets invested in the center position.
Most had journeymen and moderately priced role players filling the needs. And that seems to be the wisest way to structure your roster. Wings are paramount, and you probably need at least 4. You need a couple guards that can create and stretch the floor, and you want power forwards that can switch and centers that can switch, shoot, and move the ball.
Posted on 6/21/19 at 9:19 am to TeddyPadillac
With the way things went down I honestly would have preferred to just keep 4 and get Culver, Garland, or Hunter.
But I’ll trust Griffin and company.
But I’ll trust Griffin and company.
Posted on 6/21/19 at 9:23 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Hayes is going to be living in that shadow for years
Living in a shadow created by people that were wrong? I could see if Turner had played here and we screwed up and let him go.
Posted on 6/21/19 at 9:24 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Scoring comes from the guards and wings, everyone knows that. If they can hit an open jump shot, whether from 15' or from 3 point land, that's an added bonus.
That’s acceptable, if you have all that.
The Pels don’t.
If you want what a team built around a player like Zion looks like, look at Milwaukee.
As right now that is the most natural parallel.
That to me is the model.
Length, speed, switching, and shooting. Which opens up the floor for your best player to shine his brightest. Teams that won the three point battle in the playoffs were 60-20.
Hayes makes perfect sense if Zion develops a jumper, and the other three players can hit threes at respectable rates, but when you have 5 non-shooters on the court? If you end up with possessions in the half court, it can get really ugly.
Posted on 6/21/19 at 9:24 am to jamal
Definitely should of stayed put.. Guess that means Indiana never offered up Turner or sabonis during trade talks for the 4th pick
Posted on 6/21/19 at 9:27 am to PrayingMantis
Because most guys who played organized basketball and aren't in wheel chairs can still shoot better than him.
This the kind of guy you take high 2 or last pick in round one.
No game.
This the kind of guy you take high 2 or last pick in round one.
No game.
Posted on 6/21/19 at 9:29 am to CelticDog
All this talk that we fricked up building around Zion is crazy to me. Guys, we still have a metric ton of young assets and picks. We have every one of our future 1sts. We aren’t locked into a future.
Posted on 6/21/19 at 9:30 am to Bronc
I agree completely Bronc.
I'm anxious to see how Jrue/Lonzo/Ingram will play with Zion, and if they can start hitting open 3's at a respectable rate.
I think the future plan is to have most of the ball handling and offensive creating coming from Ingram and Zion, so if Lonzo can't figure out how to shoot, he might not be here too long. Jrue won't be here forever either. Your future lineup in 5 years is Ingram/Zion/Hayes more than likely. Those other two spots are up in the air.
Hayes is the prototypical 5 you want. There's nothign stopping us from signing a shooting 4 or 5 to play right now. No one is expecting Hayes to play 30 minutes a night anytime soon.
I'm anxious to see how Jrue/Lonzo/Ingram will play with Zion, and if they can start hitting open 3's at a respectable rate.
I think the future plan is to have most of the ball handling and offensive creating coming from Ingram and Zion, so if Lonzo can't figure out how to shoot, he might not be here too long. Jrue won't be here forever either. Your future lineup in 5 years is Ingram/Zion/Hayes more than likely. Those other two spots are up in the air.
Hayes is the prototypical 5 you want. There's nothign stopping us from signing a shooting 4 or 5 to play right now. No one is expecting Hayes to play 30 minutes a night anytime soon.
Posted on 6/21/19 at 9:30 am to PrayingMantis
Am I reading this right? His PER was 27 at Texas?
Holy shite.
And he shoots 74% from the FT line. Obviously he's not some uncoordinated big man.
Raw and a project, but he's got a Tyson Chandler vibe for sure.
Holy shite.
And he shoots 74% from the FT line. Obviously he's not some uncoordinated big man.
Raw and a project, but he's got a Tyson Chandler vibe for sure.
Posted on 6/21/19 at 9:35 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
so if Lonzo can't figure out how to shoot, he might not be here too long.
i think he's got a future as long as he doesn't want a shite ton of money. he can be a more versatile version of tony allen
Ball/Jrue/Zion are going to be killer defending the PnR
if we're being optimistic on Hayes, that will help also
we're a defensive team now 100%
Posted on 6/21/19 at 9:35 am to PrayingMantis
Just going to take time. I do like the idea of him now playing basketball full time and think his development should jump by leaps and bounds.
Posted on 6/21/19 at 9:37 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
we're a defensive team now 100%
NAW is a very solid defender in his own right as well.
Our perimeter defense is going to be incredibly stout.
Posted on 6/21/19 at 9:38 am to Saintsntigers04
quote:
a traditional center is no longer needed in the league
This meme is blown way out of proportion.
Karl Anthony Towns routinely dominating AD to the point of humiliation (for AD) shows the value in having a big, tough defensive center on your roster. Gobert is another good example. He absolutely impacts the game positively for his team.
There are loads of these examples throughout the NBA.
Just because low post iso plays aren’t as common as they once were doesn’t mean the position is now obsolete.
Once he fills out, Hayes will be a solid contributor, even if his offensive game never comes around.
Giannis is listed as a C fwiw. Granted, he’s not a “traditional” center, but a tall, athletic big like Hayes (after he gains some weight) is exactly the kind of guy you want guarding Giannis.
If we make it to the Finals in a couple years and happen to be playing the Bucks, you’ll be very happy to have him on the roster.
Posted on 6/21/19 at 9:40 am to PrayingMantis
They passed on the chance to draft a potential Steph/Kyrie type guard, who would fit nicely on this team going forward, to move down a little bit and take a complete project who doesn’t really fit with the team, or in the current NBA, at a position that everyone says is easiest just to find random guys to play a few minutes as needed.
Seems everyone is using this free throw thing to hold out hope that this dude will figure something out offensively. Free throw percentage is usually included in a package of other things to try and project if a player can eventually develop their shot.
Look, no one really knows anything at this point. Just looking at the big picture in this moment, with all the excitement cause of all the picks they had, it was a disappointment after Zion. I remember someone pointing out on here that Griffin’s strength is not drafting. Right now, that feels right.
Seems everyone is using this free throw thing to hold out hope that this dude will figure something out offensively. Free throw percentage is usually included in a package of other things to try and project if a player can eventually develop their shot.
Look, no one really knows anything at this point. Just looking at the big picture in this moment, with all the excitement cause of all the picks they had, it was a disappointment after Zion. I remember someone pointing out on here that Griffin’s strength is not drafting. Right now, that feels right.
Posted on 6/21/19 at 9:42 am to landrywasbeast30
quote:
who doesn’t really fit with the team,
bullshite. his projection is a great fit.
quote:
or in the current NBA
super bullshite
quote:
Seems everyone is using this free throw thing to hold out hope that this dude will figure something out offensively.
no it's a sign that he has shooting form. it's not an exact science but it's a good sign he can develop a jumper
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