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re: Americans Greatly Overestimate Economic Mobility
Posted on 2/15/17 at 12:46 pm to rocket31
Posted on 2/15/17 at 12:46 pm to rocket31
quote:
Dude we are taught since day 1 that if you work hard, go to school,etc you'll be wealthy/successful regardless of where you started.
Clearly it's largely bulshit
it's not bullshite, esp in terms of success (wealth often requires luck)
quote:
What's the data - over 70% have less than $1k in savings?
bad choices due to social safety nets of our socialist system. people believe in social security as a legit retirement program
1
Posted on 2/15/17 at 12:46 pm to rocket31
quote:
Dude we are taught since day 1 that if you work hard, go to school,etc you'll be wealthy/successful regardless of where you started.
This is absolutely true.
Posted on 2/15/17 at 12:47 pm to ILeaveAtHalftime
quote:
I wonder if perhaps demographics or any other social information would be helpful here
Yep. Huge piece of missing data
Posted on 2/15/17 at 12:47 pm to GreatLakesTiger24
Are people who live in poverty at risk of losing entitlements if they start to move up the ladder? Do the entitlements make them less motivated to move up?
This post was edited on 2/15/17 at 12:48 pm
Posted on 2/15/17 at 12:48 pm to rocket31
quote:
Corporatism is late-stage capitalism though
corporatism is only available via government power, often in terms of socialist policies. America's crony capitalism was not borne from capitalist policies of our government. it was created through socialist policies of our government that gave the government the sort of power necessary to create crony capitalism
Posted on 2/15/17 at 12:49 pm to Chicken
quote:
Are people who live in poverty at risk of losing entitlements if they start to move up the ladder? Do the entitlements make them less motivated to move up?
That is a question that should be asked, but no one will touch it with a ten foot pole.
ETA: Actually, JD Vance goes over this a bit in his book Hillbilly Elegy. Really, really good book that I can't recommend enough.
This post was edited on 2/15/17 at 12:53 pm
Posted on 2/15/17 at 12:50 pm to rocket31
quote:
The system isn't wrong, it's just that everyone is doing it wrong.
Riiight
What system will take an uneducated person who cannot do basic math or write basic communications properly and has no marketable physical skills, and bring them to economic prosperity? And if one existed, would we really want it?
Now, what percentage of the bottom 20% that has the abilities I mentioned above has been unable to at least reach middle class?
That would be a useful study. This one seems good only as a propaganda piece.
Posted on 2/15/17 at 12:51 pm to Chicken
quote:
Are people who live in poverty at risk of losing entitlements if they start to move up the ladder?
it's called the welfare cliff
quote:
Pretend you are a poor, single parent of two in Chicago, earning $12 an hour, working full time, and determined to do what is best for your family. And suppose your employer, impressed with your work, offers you training for and promotion to a new job paying $15. Should you take the offer?
It sounds like a no-brainer, but it’s not.
At your present $12 an hour you are eligible for refundable tax credits, food assistance, housing assistance, child care assistance, and medical assistance worth $41,465 combined. Together with your earned income after taxes of $22,121, you are now bringing home about $63,586 a year.
If you take your employer’s offer, you’ll earn $5,451 more after taxes, $27,572. You will also become eligible for an Affordable Care Act (ACA) premium tax credit. But at that level of earned income all your other benefits would decrease by $8,336, more than your increase in net pay. That means the income you would bring home would decrease from $63,586 to $60,701.
Now, would you take your employer’s offer? What would be best for you and your family, a move up the job ladder with a loss of $2,885 in income? Or staying in your same job and keeping the larger income?
Posted on 2/15/17 at 12:52 pm to Chicken
quote:
Are people who live in poverty at risk of losing entitlements if they start to move up the ladder? Do the entitlements make them less motivated to move up?
Yes and yes
Posted on 2/15/17 at 12:53 pm to rocket31
quote:
Dude we are taught since day 1 that if you work hard, go to school,etc you'll be wealthy/successful regardless of where you started.
Correct.
But in 10 years?
Posted on 2/15/17 at 12:54 pm to colorchangintiger
quote:
Places like Seattle, Portland, San Jose Valley, Omaha showed the greatest chance at upward mobility. While places like Chicago, Memphis, Atlanta, and New Orleans showed the poorest chance at upward mobility.
Think about it.
Posted on 2/15/17 at 12:55 pm to GreatLakesTiger24
It is a PUTRID measurement to set the goalpost at top 20%.
Change that number to 40% and the picture is more rosy.
Change that number to 40% and the picture is more rosy.
Posted on 2/15/17 at 12:56 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
it's called the welfare cliff
My dad had an employee that turned down a raise during an annual review because of this. He talked her into accepting the raise, with the idea that this would be temporary as her ceiling was much higher.
He ran into her a few years ago and 20 years later she's the director of a nursing unit at a major hospital.
Posted on 2/15/17 at 12:56 pm to Golfer
Again, the study and thread are not about the actual upward economic mobility in America, but our perception of it.
Posted on 2/15/17 at 12:58 pm to GreatLakesTiger24
quote:
Again, the study and thread are not about the actual upward economic mobility in America, but our perception of it.
And I'm calling bullshite on the perception that 10 years of hard work will take you from poverty to upper middle class.
Posted on 2/15/17 at 12:58 pm to SlowFlowPro
Yes SFP. We are in final stages of capitalism now.
We hand out pennies to those on welfare/food stamps to keep them in line. With that first of the month check for food and water, they certainly will behave and the status quo remains
That's what they (top 1%) want.
While we in middle class bitch about the lower class freeloading, the true wealthy just laugh, it doesn't impact them
We hand out pennies to those on welfare/food stamps to keep them in line. With that first of the month check for food and water, they certainly will behave and the status quo remains
That's what they (top 1%) want.
While we in middle class bitch about the lower class freeloading, the true wealthy just laugh, it doesn't impact them
This post was edited on 2/15/17 at 12:59 pm
Posted on 2/15/17 at 12:59 pm to Breesus
It's true but 70% of Americans have less than $1k?
You're a good little drone
You're a good little drone
Posted on 2/15/17 at 1:00 pm to rocket31
you aren't going to solve that with more government/socialism
you may change who the wealthy are, but there will still be a ruling/wealthy class
but there will be no middle and everyone becomes poor
you may change who the wealthy are, but there will still be a ruling/wealthy class
but there will be no middle and everyone becomes poor
Posted on 2/15/17 at 1:00 pm to rocket31
quote:
It's true but 70% of Americans have less than $1k?
thank socialism (Social Security) for creating this incentive
Posted on 2/15/17 at 1:03 pm to SlowFlowPro
I highly doubt ~70% of our country is motivated to stay on welfare.
My lord
My lord
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