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re: Americans Greatly Overestimate Economic Mobility
Posted on 2/15/17 at 2:06 pm to GreatLakesTiger24
Posted on 2/15/17 at 2:06 pm to GreatLakesTiger24
I read through these posts on here and see that you are talking about these statistics as if they were in a vacuum. That is not the case.
The reality is that there aren't nearly enough high paying jobs for a significant segment of the population to move up.....it would be a mathematical impossibility for that to happen.....no matter what the collective work ethic of those in the study was.
In a different day and age in this country it was more possible than it is now.
The reality is that there aren't nearly enough high paying jobs for a significant segment of the population to move up.....it would be a mathematical impossibility for that to happen.....no matter what the collective work ethic of those in the study was.
In a different day and age in this country it was more possible than it is now.
This post was edited on 2/15/17 at 2:12 pm
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Posted on 2/15/17 at 2:08 pm to rocket31
quote:
Dude we are taught since day 1 that if you work hard, go to school,etc you'll be wealthy/successful regardless of where you started.
100% false. You have the CHANCE to be wealthy/successful if you work hard go to school etc. You have the opportunity to move up into the billion dollar donor class-See Steve Jobs.
The real American dream is you parents work as cashiers at WalMart you can finish high school for free, likely qualify for college at a state school for near free and in 4 years of hard work come out 100% employed at a school as a teacher, as an engineer etc. You can go to a trade school and make a solid living as a plumber or welder. If you are bright and work hard maybe you incur some debt and go to med school.
Those are all relatively easily attainable scenarios that based off hard work you can EASILY get out of poverty and EASILY have upward mobility and 100% have a good paying job. Will you be dining on weekends with some Rockefellers or Bushes? No. However you will put you yourself in a better position and your kids will start off in that better position to take another step.
This post was edited on 2/15/17 at 2:10 pm
Posted on 2/15/17 at 2:20 pm to GreatLakesTiger24
quote:
between the years of 1996 and 2007 show that less than one percent of people from the bottom 20% of income (less than $18,500 for a household) moved to the top 20% of income (more than $92,000)
The whole premise of this study is ridiculous. If you're an unskilled / uneducated laborer in the bottom 20%, what are the odds you could obtain the skills in 11 years to move into the top 20%? The upward mobility in salary, for the most part, is probably capped below the top 20%. And that is OK. You can't expect to get into the 100K a year salary range with limited skills just because you show up for work everyday. Go get some skills.
If you're a skilled / educated laborer in the bottom 20%, and you have upward mobility in terms of salary, its still hard to get into the top 20% in 11 years.
Posted on 2/15/17 at 2:54 pm to Adam Banks
quote:that's not at all what is taught by schools and the media
The real American dream is you parents work as cashiers at WalMart you can finish high school for free, likely qualify for college at a state school for near free and in 4 years of hard work come out 100% employed at a school as a teacher, as an engineer etc. You can go to a trade school and make a solid living as a plumber or welder. If you are bright and work hard maybe you incur some debt and go to med school.
Posted on 2/15/17 at 2:56 pm to GreatLakesTiger24
quote:
that's not at all what is taught by schools and the media
You keep saying this. I've never heard of the american dream as a "get rich quick" opportunity.
Posted on 2/15/17 at 6:19 pm to GreatLakesTiger24
quote:
that's not at all what is taught by schools and the media
Thats what I was taught. Please tell me what is "taught by schools and the media" and provide links to back that up.
Posted on 2/15/17 at 6:30 pm to LSUBoo
quote:
I'm not really surprised that so few have jumped from the bottom 20% to the top 20% nationwide. I would assume that the bottom 20% is largely uneducated, lacking even GED credentials... there's not much opportunity for that segment of society to move up, especially move up all the way to the top 20%.
~257k people reported salary info in the last census.. 18.8% of them make less than $22.5k/year. That's pretty crazy
This post was edited on 2/15/17 at 6:33 pm
Posted on 2/15/17 at 6:37 pm to rocket31
quote:
Most good little plebs support capitalism while having less than $5k in savings
If you have less than 5k in savings and you're actually an established professional, that's a spending problem.
Posted on 2/15/17 at 6:48 pm to Jcorye1
quote:
If you have less than 5k in savings and you're actually an established professional, that's a spending problem.
i made a shite salary in an expensive area and was easily able to save up more than 10k in my first two years of professional work.. i'm cheap AF though. smooth sailing now
This post was edited on 2/15/17 at 6:49 pm
Posted on 2/15/17 at 6:56 pm to GreatLakesTiger24
I'll have to read the study to know, but there's a difference between if this study followed the bottom 20% as a statiscal group as opposed to using IRS tax records to follow actual individuals. A study I read some time ago using the latter method found the last majority of those in poverty moved out of poverty within 10 years.
The arbitrary distinction to go from bottom 20% to top 20% doesn't strike me as a valid definition of economic mobility as well.
The arbitrary distinction to go from bottom 20% to top 20% doesn't strike me as a valid definition of economic mobility as well.
This post was edited on 2/15/17 at 6:58 pm
Posted on 2/15/17 at 6:58 pm to notsince98
quote:That's why they're poor
Most po folk I know have no desire to work hard enough to get rich.
Posted on 2/15/17 at 7:04 pm to rocket31
quote:
Dude we are taught since day 1 that if you work hard, go to school,etc you'll be wealthy/successful regardless of where you started.
I did, what the frick is your problem?
Without coming the stats to everywhere else, taken EXACTLY the same way, the study is worthless.
Posted on 2/15/17 at 7:16 pm to GreatLakesTiger24
quote:
that's not at all what is taught by schools and the media
Sure it is. The American dream isn't wealth. Its a semi comfortable middle class lifestyle with a house, two cars, a dog and 3 kids.
Posted on 2/15/17 at 7:18 pm to Teddy Ruxpin
quote:
The arbitrary distinction to go from bottom 20% to top 20% doesn't strike me as a valid definition of economic mobility as well
Yep. Agree with that.
Posted on 2/15/17 at 8:50 pm to bmy
Exactly. I made 35 to 50 the past 2 years and I've saved up around 20k in retirement stuff living by myself and such.
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