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re: Religious Propaganda and Children
Posted on 6/23/20 at 2:39 pm to Breesus
Posted on 6/23/20 at 2:39 pm to Breesus
quote:
OK. What is required? How do you establish right and wrong without a universal truth?
Define "universal truth"?
I taught my kids that I expect them to treat others how they would wish to be treated. Does that count as a "universal truth"?
Ethics exist independent of religion. Troops of monkeys and apes do not indiscriminately murder members of their own social group despite the fact that they have no religion to tell them it would be wrong to do so. They also exhibit altruistic behavior to other members of their social group and have been observed making personal sacrifices for the benefit of the group.
"The behavior of Atheists is subject to the same rules of sociology, psychology, and neurophysiology that govern the behavior of all members of our species, religionists included."
2
Posted on 6/23/20 at 2:41 pm to Green Chili Tiger
its bullshite that this thread gets anchored but all the obvious political threads don't get anchored
Posted on 6/23/20 at 2:42 pm to The Third Leg
I’m a proud Catholic with a strong faith in God and my life is a million times more meaningful and worthwhile because of it. I teach my child the beauty of God’s love, forgiveness, kindness to others, and how much of a gift life is and about its many blessings.
Christianity is beautiful and focuses on love, positivity, and kindness. The world needs a lot more of that.
As an adult with children, you have a lot more issues with your immaturity and selfishness as you feel the need to post stupid and rude comments like
Christianity is beautiful and focuses on love, positivity, and kindness. The world needs a lot more of that.
As an adult with children, you have a lot more issues with your immaturity and selfishness as you feel the need to post stupid and rude comments like
quote:and you believe Christianity is propaganda.
doesn’t do butt stuff
Posted on 6/23/20 at 2:43 pm to Breesus
quote:
But if you honestly and earnestly reach out to God, he will reach back to you. And you will understand your purpose and your life. And that feeling is something I cannot describe but I pray everyone can experience. I absolutely know God exists. You don't have to believe me.
this is false
trust me, I know
quote:
How do you define good and evil?
my morality if mostly built around the society that I was raised
morality (good vs evil) evolves with society
Posted on 6/23/20 at 2:44 pm to Salmon
quote:
its bullshite that this thread gets anchored but all the obvious political threads don't get anchored
Amen!(pun intended)
Posted on 6/23/20 at 2:45 pm to Salmon
quote:
its kinda funny that you just illustrated how no moral authority exists and how morality evolves
Is it not obvious that I'm assuming the atheists worldview in the illustration to show him the consequences of a universe without an authoritative moral law giver?
The kidnapping and the motive (greed) are both authoritatively wrong according to Christian theism. Did you not understand that?
Posted on 6/23/20 at 2:46 pm to tigergirl10
quote:
I’m a proud Catholic with a strong faith in God and my life is a million times more meaningful and worthwhile because of it.
More meaningful and worthwhile than what? What's your point of comparison? Have you lived a life without your strong faith in god?
Posted on 6/23/20 at 2:48 pm to bayoubengals88
quote:
Is it not obvious that I'm assuming the atheists worldview in the illustration to show him the consequences of a universe without an authoritative moral law giver?
We have an authoritative moral law giver. It's called society. And its constantly evolving.
quote:
The kidnapping and the motive (greed) are both authoritatively wrong according to Christian theism. Did you not understand that?
I understood your point. It wasn't difficult.
You obviously didn't understand mine though.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 2:49 pm to Green Chili Tiger
quote:
Define "universal truth"?
This is more a discussion to have around a table than through a non-personal internet forum. As there is a great deal to converse and question and understand.
But here are a few points about universal truth.
God is the universal truth. God is good. And the absence of God is evil.
The Lord God created the universe and gave man free will. We have the freedom to choose to believe in God or turn our back on him.
To choose to be slaves to pleasures of the flesh or to deny moral Relativism and evil and find peace and eternal life in God.
You have the power with the help of God to defeat sin and death or you can choose a life of sin and death.
Universal truth is the truth that God is good. And without him there is not goodness.
Without God, how do you decide that what you define as "good" is any more correct or moral than what anyone else defines as "good"?
Posted on 6/23/20 at 2:50 pm to Salmon
quote:You didn't make one.
You obviously didn't understand mine though.
It seems like your favorite argument is a = a
Posted on 6/23/20 at 2:52 pm to Salmon
quote:
its bullshite that this thread gets anchored but all the obvious political threads don't get anchored
Yes. It is. And it is also an absolute shame how every time I try to discuss god with many of my friends, they look at me like I am some kind of crazy person with five heads.
Our society is in the process of fully turning itself away from the Lord. And that is not good.
I understand, that you may be able to live a good life without Jesus. I believe, that that is because we are all created in God's image. Even if we choose not to believe in him, that imprint of his image is in our soul.
I understand, that you may be able to tell right from wrong even if you not believe in God.
But, there are many many out there who cannot. And the more we strengthen them. The more we emboldened them. And the more we refuse to fight them because we have no faith in the Lord ourselves: The stronger they grow. The weaker we become. And the closer we get to death.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 2:53 pm to bayoubengals88
quote:
You didn't make one.
I wasn't trying to. I was showing you how your point, illustrated an opposing view of yours.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 2:53 pm to Salmon
quote:
this is false
trust me, I know
No. It isn't.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 3:01 pm to Breesus
quote:
No. It isn't.
oh ok sure
I guess a younger Salmon crying in bed begging for God to come into his heart because he didn't understand why he couldn't believe or why he had so many doubts or why he just couldn't accept God like all his friends and family didn't happen
good talk, Dad
Posted on 6/23/20 at 3:02 pm to Breesus
quote:
If someone does not reciprocate dignity and respect can you then stop treating them that way?
Yes, cancel them on Twitter.
quote:
There is no moral authority? Then where do morals come from? And why is your teaching about respect more correct than someone who teaches the biggest and strongest can do what they want?
Morals come from Human empathy. Humans naturally have a sense of basic equity. Nearly all humans are capable empathy if they have experienced the full range of human emotion.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 3:02 pm to Green Chili Tiger
quote:
More meaningful and worthwhile than what? What's your point of comparison? Have you lived a life without your strong faith in god?
The only way to do this assessment is to look at their fruits.
It's the same thing I often say on liberal/conservative issues. It's oversimplified, but there is probably still value there.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 3:10 pm to The Third Leg
We have 3 small children- I was raised Christian and my husband catholic (maybe that’s the same thing- not sure, I just know Catholicism seems so bizarre to me but anyway)... We are both now the same when it comes to our religious beliefs so call that what you will.
We aren’t not overly religious. I don’t usually like attending church. Our kids do attend VBS and a private school that is not overtly Christian but they do watch/read kids bible stories and say prayer over lunch and whatnot.
I wouldn’t recommend shoving any religious views down your kids throat. It never ends up well. I feel like letting kids discover and explore with some guidance is really the best way. I’m not sure what your wife had in mind but it kinda sounds like those are her only intentions. To sort of let them learn on their own if something interests them. Some of the stories can be pretty entertaining for my kids even if they are too young to understand the big picture.
I honestly discuss it very rarely so the only thing they are hearing is from school/childrens church classes and my parents most likely. Maybe that makes me a bad religious mom. I just don’t think badgering anyone into anything had a good outcome.
I guess I would say I think it’s probably a good thing that you two are having this discussion and that you are both open to figuring out the best way to navigate this together.
Kids are resilient. They manage to learn a lot more than we even realize on their own.
Not sure if any of that was helpful- kind of just sharing a slightly different view from someone who did grow up in a very very religious family.
If this is not helpful- just ignore.
We aren’t not overly religious. I don’t usually like attending church. Our kids do attend VBS and a private school that is not overtly Christian but they do watch/read kids bible stories and say prayer over lunch and whatnot.
I wouldn’t recommend shoving any religious views down your kids throat. It never ends up well. I feel like letting kids discover and explore with some guidance is really the best way. I’m not sure what your wife had in mind but it kinda sounds like those are her only intentions. To sort of let them learn on their own if something interests them. Some of the stories can be pretty entertaining for my kids even if they are too young to understand the big picture.
I honestly discuss it very rarely so the only thing they are hearing is from school/childrens church classes and my parents most likely. Maybe that makes me a bad religious mom. I just don’t think badgering anyone into anything had a good outcome.
I guess I would say I think it’s probably a good thing that you two are having this discussion and that you are both open to figuring out the best way to navigate this together.
Kids are resilient. They manage to learn a lot more than we even realize on their own.
Not sure if any of that was helpful- kind of just sharing a slightly different view from someone who did grow up in a very very religious family.
If this is not helpful- just ignore.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 3:18 pm to Salmon
I'm sorry you went through that. I don't pretend to understand what has happened in your life.
I'm not trying to downplay or invalidate your experience. I'm not trying to change your mind. I'm simply telling you what I know to be true.
I spent many years in a very dark place cursing God and begging him for a sign while doing nothing to look for it. And I spent many nights screaming at my parents for forcing something on me I can't understand when everyone else seems to understand it so well. I can't count the lonely nights I wasted in misery and pain.
I'm not saying I can understand what you went through. In fact I know I can't. I'm just telling you what I went though. You shared with me, and it wouldn't be fair for me not to share with you.
I just hope you can find it in your heart to have faith. And if you can't, I'll still pray for you. You seem like a legitimately good dude. And I hope you find peace.
I'm not trying to downplay or invalidate your experience. I'm not trying to change your mind. I'm simply telling you what I know to be true.
I spent many years in a very dark place cursing God and begging him for a sign while doing nothing to look for it. And I spent many nights screaming at my parents for forcing something on me I can't understand when everyone else seems to understand it so well. I can't count the lonely nights I wasted in misery and pain.
I'm not saying I can understand what you went through. In fact I know I can't. I'm just telling you what I went though. You shared with me, and it wouldn't be fair for me not to share with you.
I just hope you can find it in your heart to have faith. And if you can't, I'll still pray for you. You seem like a legitimately good dude. And I hope you find peace.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 4:20 pm to Salmon
quote:
oh ok sure I guess a younger Salmon crying in bed begging for God to come into his heart because he didn't understand why he couldn't believe or why he had so many doubts or why he just couldn't accept God like all his friends and family didn't happen
That’s the thing about God, he doesn’t work on your time line or do things in your life just because you want it then and now. I’ve realized this time and again in my own life and I used to feel the same way you do today.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 4:33 pm to Salmon
quote:It sounds like the Southern Baptists failed you. Have you ever considered they could have been wrong about how it all works?
I guess a younger Salmon crying in bed begging for God to come into his heart because he didn't understand why he couldn't believe or why he had so many doubts or why he just couldn't accept God like all his friends and family didn't happen
Your motives as a young boy sound like they were based on “fire insurance” and family appeasement. That kind of conversion doesn’t last long.
The point that might have been missed is acknowledging that you are a sinner who has not hated God for many years. You live for you.
Now, in light of that, repent and change.
That’s a more biblically consistent conversion. And if you don’t care to do it, then it won’t bother you, right?
I’m a firm believer that ownership of one’s Christianity comes after they’ve been hit in the mouth a couple of times. Usually mid 20s...not this “I prayed a prayer when I was 12 and that’s all I’ll ever need” BS...
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