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re: Will the millennials be a lost generation?
Posted on 8/5/15 at 1:46 pm to OMLandshark
Posted on 8/5/15 at 1:46 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Yeah, we just had to deal with our nation being directly attacked and the media taking off with it and turning us into a fear mongering society. All millenials fault clearly, and not the Boomers who are the assholes running the media. They're in it for ratings, and they know scaring the shite out of everyone is how to get them. No journalistic integrity since they took over, which they actually had while they were growing up.
That comment was meant to defend millenials.
quote:
And how are we supposed to due that when they really just take age into account of getting a great job?
For most majors, you learn nothing in college that pertains to working in the real world except time management. Yet, you think you're better than the guy doing that job for 10 years? Do you think the subordinates that are older than you, and working in that field longer will just automatically respect you? I doubt it.
The number one millenial "problem" that pisses me off, is the "I'm educated and can't find a job!" problem. The ability to network is lost to this generation. Most people who have good jobs didn't hit up indeed or monster and find the job there. Someone told them, or even helped them get the job. They knew a person with an in. You have 200 facebook friends, but how many can you call on the phone right now? How many of those friends are in your field of work and can help you in some way? Go to the bar at happy hour and meet people in your business. Remember people's name and check up on them if you don't deal with them a lot. If you want to work somewhere, get contacts that already work there and use them to help you find a job. They will know if a job's open before headhunters or the internet will.
Another problem millenials face, is they do not get a job in their field of study while in college. If you're an accounting major and waited tables through college, of course you will have trouble finding a job. If you work in your field of study while in college. You: Learn if that's what you really want to do. Get a grasp of the job so you're building a career out the gate. Increase your odds of getting a job out of college because that company will likely hire you BEFORE you graduate. If you major in Art, any kind of Studies, basket weaving, etc. You have to work in that field in college. Otherwise you got a $30,000 piece of paper with 8% interest and very slim opportunities.
The other trait lost is respect for those who are older than you. I'm the youngest in my office by 15 years. I'm 10x more efficient than my co workers at accomplishing things. Yet, I hang out with them on downtime during the workday. I learn more about people, business, and life from them than I ever can on the internet. Older people are also a great asset for you to grow in business. When most older people see you trying and treating them with respect, they will want to help you. They'll teach you a lot about the business you're in, because they have the experience. So don't hate boomers, utilize them.
1
Posted on 8/5/15 at 1:53 pm to brodeo
quote:
I want to believe you, but so many of my contemporaries have 4 year college degrees and are still working the same jobs they had in high school. They're working 60 hours a week, 2 jobs, and getting nowhere. I know too many people like that. They want to move up. They aren't afraid to work hard, but the next rung on the jobs ladder seems perpetually out of reach. What are they supposed to do? No one will hire them for entry level positions in their degree fields because they don't have 5 years of relevant experience in those fields. They've been working 2 jobs at a time since they were 16, but none of that experience matters to HR software.
They don't get any breaks, and none are going to come to them unless they radically change course. To what? I don't know. They'll never earn enough to amass the capital to open up their own businesses, their student loans mean they'll never have the credit rating to get a loan even if they could make a down payment. They're literally trapped in an economy that was not made for them to be able to thrive.
I feel bad for these kids who grew up being told all they had to do was stay in school, get a degree, and everything would just fall into place after that. It's like I said earlier, a degree is just not what it use to be in regards to giving you a leg up on getting a job. The market is flooded with people holding degrees and thus the value of a degree is not what it use to be.
The cold hard truth that many will have to accept is that 4 years and tens of thousands of dollars they spent getting a degree were in many cases wasted. For some their degree with translate into a great career. But for many others, it simply won't and those folks are going to have to swallow that bitter pill of reality and drive on. Is that harsh? Yeah. Does that suck? Yeah. Is that fair? No. But that's life. It's never been fair, it's never been easy.
What people in this situation are going to have to do is accept the fact they've got to find a new path. Go to a trade school and learn a skill. Or they can join the military and do the same. Not everyone is going to be able to have a career wearing dress pants and button-down shirts in a office with a desk and computer where thy make $80,000 - $100,000 a year, especially right out of college. In fact, the way things are now, very few people will be able to do this. Instead you may have to go find the best "blue collar" job you can and make a career out of it.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 1:55 pm to LSU8654722
quote:
Another problem millenials face, is they do not get a job in their field of study while in college. If you're an accounting major and waited tables through college, of course you will have trouble finding a job. If you work in your field of study while in college. You: Learn if that's what you really want to do. Get a grasp of the job so you're building a career out the gate. Increase your odds of getting a job out of college because that company will likely hire you BEFORE you graduate. If you major in Art, any kind of Studies, basket weaving, etc. You have to work in that field in college. Otherwise you got a $30,000 piece of paper with 8% interest and very slim opportunities.
Let me address a few points from this paragraph. A lot of students can't afford to lose the jobs they do have to take internships that have fewer hours or else they won't be able to pay rent or afford tuition. Also, there just aren't a ton of internships out there. I was fortunate to land the ones I did, but most people aren't so lucky.
Finally, $30,000? LSU, a farely inexpensive college, is $26,500/year for out of state students. Over 4 years, that's $106,000. For in-state, TOPS generally is on the hook, but if it wasn't, for 4 years it would still be $35,000. And that's just for TUITION!!!
Posted on 8/5/15 at 2:00 pm to brodeo
Yeah, they don't just hand out paid internships. You either have to really work for it, know someone, or both.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 2:00 pm to brodeo
quote:This is so very true.
I want to believe you, but so many of my contemporaries have 4 year college degrees and are still working the same jobs they had in high school. They're working 60 hours a week, 2 jobs, and getting nowhere. I know too many people like that. They want to move up. They aren't afraid to work hard, but the next rung on the jobs ladder seems perpetually out of reach. What are they supposed to do? No one will hire them for entry level positions in their degree fields because they don't have 5 years of relevant experience in those fields. They've been working 2 jobs at a time since they were 16, but none of that experience matters to HR software. They don't get any breaks, and none are going to come to them unless they radically change course. To what? I don't know. They'll never earn enough to amass the capital to open up their own businesses, their student loans mean they'll never have the credit rating to get a loan even if they could make a down payment. They're literally trapped in an economy that was not made for them to be able to thrive.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 2:07 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Instead you may have to go find the best "blue collar" job you can and make a career out of it.
I would definitely advise more people to do this, but with the oil & gas industry cratering, now may not be the time. I do have one friend who took this route. He had dropped out of college (parents forced him to go when he wanted to be a mechanic. They were of that mindset which discourages manual labor), he was working 2 jobs (line cook and bartender), and was living with his parents. He finally told his parents to screw themselves and landed an apprenticeship with a mechanic shop. He still doesn't make enough to quit his second job (line cook), but he now makes enough to rent his own place and really has a future. He's the exception, and it was only possible because he had a relative that taught him enough of how to do the job to avoid needing school and could find a bodyshop which didn't require schooling.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 2:07 pm to brodeo
quote:
Finally, $30,000? LSU, a farely inexpensive college, is $26,500/year for out of state students. Over 4 years, that's $106,000. For in-state, TOPS generally is on the hook, but if it wasn't, for 4 years it would still be $35,000. And that's just for TUITION!!!
In SC, they gave me $5,000 a year in a state scholarship, and I would have easily qualified for TOPs if I were in Louisiana. Yall have it good there.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 2:09 pm to lilsnappa
quote:
I just read Leaders eat Last by Simon Sinek. He has a couple chapters on this and how it came to be. Once human capital became a lever that could be pulled to create short term value and prop up stock prices, all ideals of loyalty were gone (early/mid 90s). This has trickled down to smaller & smaller companies over the years.
..and its goes back to the selfish attitude of whomever is running these companies, which are all Baby Boomers. People are non longer viewed human beings in a lot of the business world. They are statistics in a spreadsheet that are a variable cost which can be managed to compensate for loss of margin.
But there is hope, the X/Y generations are so disgruntled by this that there will be change over the coming years...just have to get those old bastards out of control.
Winner.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 2:12 pm to constant cough
Just curious, what generation am I in? Born in 92. Thought I was a millennial
Posted on 8/5/15 at 2:12 pm to MontyFranklyn
quote:
I want to believe you, but so many of my contemporaries have 4 year college degrees and are still working the same jobs they had in high school. They're working 60 hours a week, 2 jobs, and getting nowhere. I know too many people like that. They want to move up. They aren't afraid to work hard, but the next rung on the jobs ladder seems perpetually out of reach. What are they supposed to do? No one will hire them for entry level positions in their degree fields because they don't have 5 years of relevant experience in those fields. They've been working 2 jobs at a time since they were 16, but none of that experience matters to HR software. They don't get any breaks, and none are going to come to them unless they radically change course. To what? I don't know. They'll never earn enough to amass the capital to open up their own businesses, their student loans mean they'll never have the credit rating to get a loan even if they could make a down payment. They're literally trapped in an economy that was not made for them to be able to thrive.
This is so very true.
Then go learn a skilled trade. Hell, you can go to truck driving school and get a job making almost $40,000 right off the bat. And many companies offer signing bonuses of $5,000 - $10,000.
Don't want to drive a truck? Go to a trade school and learn to weld. You can start out around $30K-$40K a year and within a few years be making upwards of $60K. I know some welders who make around $100K per year.
Or you can learn to be a plumber or electrician and make around $50K a year. Do your time and move up to foreman or manager and you can be making $90K+ a year.
There's a ton of careers out there if you're willing to do them.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 2:14 pm to PrideofTheSEC
quote:
Thought I was a millennial
You are correct.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 2:15 pm to CunningLinguist
quote:
When all of the baby boomers finish dying off....
To me, this is a flawed line of thinking - meaning, the Baby Boomers have already set in motion the population increase; there's no way to return to pre-Baby Boomer numbers. Think about it, now we have all the Baby Boomer's children and grand children to contend with too. The only way to reverse the trend that generation brought forth, is if we have another significant war or epidemic that reduces our population numbers in a short time period.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 2:18 pm to brodeo
quote:
I would definitely advise more people to do this, but with the oil & gas industry cratering, now may not be the time. I do have one friend who took this route. He had dropped out of college (parents forced him to go when he wanted to be a mechanic. They were of that mindset which discourages manual labor), he was working 2 jobs (line cook and bartender), and was living with his parents. He finally told his parents to screw themselves and landed an apprenticeship with a mechanic shop. He still doesn't make enough to quit his second job (line cook), but he now makes enough to rent his own place and really has a future. He's the exception, and it was only possible because he had a relative that taught him enough of how to do the job to avoid needing school and could find a bodyshop which didn't require schooling.
Being a mechanic is a great career. I've worked for Caterpillar for over 20 years, not as a mechanic, but I am familiar with their pay scale. For a young guy starting out, depending on the area of the country he's in and the Cat dealership he works for, he can expect to start out making around $35K-$40K a year. If he stays and advances for about 10 years he should be making around $70-$80K. Some of them with time and enough skills learned can make upwards of $100K.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 2:19 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
You don't have to start out with a a "great" job. Nobody starts out with a "great" job". Just get "a" job and be happy you've got it. Pay your dues like the rest of us had to and the "great" job will come down the road.
1. Even "a" job is hard to get. Not only is there heavy competition with ridiculous requirements, but even low level jobs require very specific requirements. Have an History degree? Baby Boomer Bob only values Math and Business. That's it. Go work in a coffee shop....
2. "A" Job type jobs are rarely enough to pay down loans. Take out $40,000, the average, get a $30,000/year job! Or less if you're at a coffee shop.
3. Even if you get "a" job, see #1, that experience? Probably doesn't help you get the job you want anyways because Baby Boomer Bob only cares about experience in X or from X company. That's it. Don't have it? SOL.
Why? Because company loyalty and investment doesn't exist anymore for the most part. They don't see it as "their" job to educate, train, or invest in their employees. They expect College to do it, which isn't what college is for, or some other company to do it. It's ridiculous and stupid, and is one of the biggest drivers of how employment is treating Millenials, and why their response is exactly the way it is.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 2:20 pm to brodeo
quote:
LSU, a farely inexpensive college, is $26,500/year for out of state students.
I've been out of school for a while and my numbers came from then. The people I knew with internships had cushions built into their student loans to help pay to live. Yes, they pay like $500/month in student loans till they're 55 but would not have the $100K+ salary at 30 if they didn't have the loan. It balances out. But that was them, everyone's situation is different.
2 movie quotes you should remember:
"Some fellas are lucky, and some ain't. It's the way it is."
"The world needs ditch diggers too."
Posted on 8/5/15 at 2:22 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
1. Even "a" job is hard to get. Not only is there heavy competition with ridiculous requirements, but even low level jobs require very specific requirements. Have an History degree? Baby Boomer Bob only values Math and Business. That's it. Go work in a coffee shop....
2. "A" Job type jobs are rarely enough to pay down loans. Take out $40,000, the average, get a $30,000/year job! Or less if you're at a coffee shop.
3. Even if you get "a" job, see #1, that experience? Probably doesn't help you get the job you want anyways because Baby Boomer Bob only cares about experience in X or from X company. That's it. Don't have it? SOL.
Why? Because company loyalty and investment doesn't exist anymore for the most part. They don't see it as "their" job to educate, train, or invest in their employees. They expect College to do it, which isn't what college is for, or some other company to do it. It's ridiculous and stupid, and is one of the biggest drivers of how employment is treating Millenials, and why their response is exactly the way it is.
I hear what you're saying. For many in your generation they're going to have to face the fact their degree will never be anything more than something hanging on their wall that looks cool. Chalk up that time & money spent as a hard life lesson and move on. There are tons of other careers out there that do require training but do not require college. Find one of those and get started on your life.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 2:24 pm to Darth_Vader
That is certainly the case now, but won't be the case soon if the price of oil doesn't back go up soon. Where I work just laid off over 150 tradesmen just last week. Companies in the oil patch are laying off people by the tens of thousands. In the mean time, we're still importing tens of thousands of skilled tradesmen from Latin America every year with work Visas (as well as countless illegals) which put massive downward pressure on wages. The labor shortage in trades will soon be over for all the wrong reasons.
Also, it's tough to transition from recent college grad working minimum wage to licensed tradesman. It generally requires giving the part time jobs that are keeping them afloat in order to go to NCCR school, which, while much cheaper and faster than a 4 year degree, can be difficult for a waiter or barista struggling to pay student loans and rent. Plus, many of the safety certifications one needs are expensive without a company to sponsor you. Once they're done, they'll have to try to get work as a helper for a while. That position doesn't pay any better than being a waiter or barista unless they're one of the minority of helpers that get per diam and/or time and a half OT. Then, it's tough to get hired for that first tradesman position without experience or a connection. The work is also incredibly unsteady, with massive layoffs always right around the corner (especially now with the price of oil cratering).
It is a risk with a definite chance of working out, but offers just as large of a risk of being in the same untenable position.
Also, it's tough to transition from recent college grad working minimum wage to licensed tradesman. It generally requires giving the part time jobs that are keeping them afloat in order to go to NCCR school, which, while much cheaper and faster than a 4 year degree, can be difficult for a waiter or barista struggling to pay student loans and rent. Plus, many of the safety certifications one needs are expensive without a company to sponsor you. Once they're done, they'll have to try to get work as a helper for a while. That position doesn't pay any better than being a waiter or barista unless they're one of the minority of helpers that get per diam and/or time and a half OT. Then, it's tough to get hired for that first tradesman position without experience or a connection. The work is also incredibly unsteady, with massive layoffs always right around the corner (especially now with the price of oil cratering).
It is a risk with a definite chance of working out, but offers just as large of a risk of being in the same untenable position.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 2:26 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
Have an History degree? Baby Boomer Bob only values Math and Business.
In that situation, Baby Boomer Bob probably has a history degree himself, which only adds to the lunacy.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 2:29 pm to brodeo
quote:
That is certainly the case now, but won't be the case soon if the price of oil doesn't back go up soon. Where I work just laid off over 150 tradesmen just last week. Companies in the oil patch are laying off people by the tens of thousands. In the mean time, we're still importing tens of thousands of skilled tradesmen from Latin America every year with work Visas (as well as countless illegals) which put massive downward pressure on wages. The labor shortage in trades will soon be over for all the wrong reasons.
Also, it's tough to transition from recent college grad working minimum wage to licensed tradesman. It generally requires giving the part time jobs that are keeping them afloat in order to go to NCCR school, which, while much cheaper and faster than a 4 year degree, can be difficult for a waiter or barista struggling to pay student loans and rent. Plus, many of the safety certifications one needs are expensive without a company to sponsor you. Once they're done, they'll have to try to get work as a helper for a while. That position doesn't pay any better than being a waiter or barista unless they're one of the minority of helpers that get per diam and/or time and a half OT. Then, it's tough to get hired for that first tradesman position without experience or a connection. The work is also incredibly unsteady, with massive layoffs always right around the corner (especially now with the price of oil cratering).
It is a risk with a definite chance of working out, but offers just as large of a risk of being in the same untenable position.
You're right. There are risk. Hell, there's no way to go through life without the risk of failure unless. And yeah, at the start they'll struggle and maybe even make about the same money as a waiter or barista. But there's a big difference. Someone just getting started in a skilled trade like a plumber or welder are working towards advancing in their trade. A waiter or barista are just treading water.
Posted on 8/5/15 at 2:31 pm to LSU8654722
quote:
"The world needs ditch diggers too."
Most millennials would respond with "I WISH I could get a job digging ditches!!!"
Even ditch diggers generally need a minimum of 3 years of relevant experience, 20 different safety certifications, and a 2 year trade school degree. Even so, you probably need a connection to even get to interview for such a position. And that's for the non-union ditch digger positions! One can only imagine the hoops one must jump through to land a union ditch-digging gig!
I would have done just about anything short of sexual favors to get a ditch-digging job in 2007-2010. I was well qualified, having dug ditches for my father my whole childhood. Instead, I remained unemployed for 3 years while applying for every open position I was qualified for from food service to retail to secretarial work to tourism. I couldn't land a job because I didn't have a first job to use as "experience". It was a catch 22.
This post was edited on 8/5/15 at 2:38 pm
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