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Posted on 9/19/16 at 10:57 pm to semotruman
quote:
In Colorado, they can't prosecute anyone under the age of 10. He would likely have been put into a facility for psych treatment for a while, depending on whether it was truly an accident or intentional.
They still may want to protect him from even that.
Possibly even protect him from believing he did any wrong.
These seem like somewhat controlling parents.. at least the mom. Why wouldn't they want to be the ones to write his life story after such a tragic even.. maybe even have him believe he did nothing wrong.
Posted on 9/19/16 at 11:00 pm to RobbBobb
My conclusion, and this is how I felt before I watched tonight's episode anyway:
John, Patsy, JonBenét, and Burke came home from the Christmas party, with JonBenét sleeping.
John and Burke finished putting together the toy while JonBenét woke up, either on her own or by her mother so that she could use the bathroom, brush her teeth, get into PJs, etc.
Burke wanted a snack before bed and Patsy made him the bowl of pineapple
JonBenét and Burke were fighting as siblings tend to do, JonBenét took a piece of his pineapple
At some point, Burke was upset and hit her with the flashlight that was on the counter, not realizing what extensive damage the flashlight could do to her skull
She was brain damaged or knocked unconscious but still alive/having a pulse, possibly having post-traumatic seizures which are common after brain trauma
Burke was sent to bed and told to stay there by the angry parents who realize that they're losing their child
They are frantically panicking and trying to figure out what to do having a convulsing child on the floor
They decide to make it look like a crime happened, not only to prevent them losing their son but also because they can't bear to give up their perfect image
John decides to make it look like an intruder attack and takes JonBenét to the basement, creates a garrote, and finishes her death, wrapping her up in the blanket
While that might sound too cold for a parent to do, they don't know if the child is dead or simply going to be a vegetable/retarded, imagine the frenzy of realizing what will happen to your lifestyle/image if everyone knows you have a vegetable child and a violent crazy son, and a high status circle of friends and colleagues who suddenly judge you for the horrible home you have
Meanwhile, Patsy gets her pad and pen and begins writing a first draft of the ransom note
John comes back and helps her finish the final draft
They call 911, play like their daughter was kidnapped, and hang up (or at least thought she did)
Burke hears the 911 call and his parents saying that they found a ransom note, and comes into the room and asks "What did you find?" with his dad responding "We're not talking to you"
As for the aftermath:
As the pineapple was what started the confrontation, parents deny that Burke and JonBenét had pineapple and that the night ended before that, with all of them going to sleep
The broken window was from John locking himself out of the house and breaking the window recently, as he claimed he had done. It was only a single pane and was below ground level under the grate, so it wasn't a priority to fix immediately
The incongruity of having both a murder and a ransom note came from two parents not knowing what the hell to do in the moment and thinking that a ransom note would be solid evidence that someone outside of their house did it, in case the police initially suspected that one of them killed her
Burke was never completely in on the coverup but was likely coached to shut up, and is not only lying to the investigators/media but likely also lying to himself about it
Honestly, if that's really what happened, I don't even blame them for doing it. I mean, obviously it's the wrong thing to do, but if I were in their shoes I can't say I wouldn't do everything to prevent my son being taken away and keep my home from falling apart
John, Patsy, JonBenét, and Burke came home from the Christmas party, with JonBenét sleeping.
John and Burke finished putting together the toy while JonBenét woke up, either on her own or by her mother so that she could use the bathroom, brush her teeth, get into PJs, etc.
Burke wanted a snack before bed and Patsy made him the bowl of pineapple
JonBenét and Burke were fighting as siblings tend to do, JonBenét took a piece of his pineapple
At some point, Burke was upset and hit her with the flashlight that was on the counter, not realizing what extensive damage the flashlight could do to her skull
She was brain damaged or knocked unconscious but still alive/having a pulse, possibly having post-traumatic seizures which are common after brain trauma
Burke was sent to bed and told to stay there by the angry parents who realize that they're losing their child
They are frantically panicking and trying to figure out what to do having a convulsing child on the floor
They decide to make it look like a crime happened, not only to prevent them losing their son but also because they can't bear to give up their perfect image
John decides to make it look like an intruder attack and takes JonBenét to the basement, creates a garrote, and finishes her death, wrapping her up in the blanket
While that might sound too cold for a parent to do, they don't know if the child is dead or simply going to be a vegetable/retarded, imagine the frenzy of realizing what will happen to your lifestyle/image if everyone knows you have a vegetable child and a violent crazy son, and a high status circle of friends and colleagues who suddenly judge you for the horrible home you have
Meanwhile, Patsy gets her pad and pen and begins writing a first draft of the ransom note
John comes back and helps her finish the final draft
They call 911, play like their daughter was kidnapped, and hang up (or at least thought she did)
Burke hears the 911 call and his parents saying that they found a ransom note, and comes into the room and asks "What did you find?" with his dad responding "We're not talking to you"
As for the aftermath:
As the pineapple was what started the confrontation, parents deny that Burke and JonBenét had pineapple and that the night ended before that, with all of them going to sleep
The broken window was from John locking himself out of the house and breaking the window recently, as he claimed he had done. It was only a single pane and was below ground level under the grate, so it wasn't a priority to fix immediately
The incongruity of having both a murder and a ransom note came from two parents not knowing what the hell to do in the moment and thinking that a ransom note would be solid evidence that someone outside of their house did it, in case the police initially suspected that one of them killed her
Burke was never completely in on the coverup but was likely coached to shut up, and is not only lying to the investigators/media but likely also lying to himself about it
Honestly, if that's really what happened, I don't even blame them for doing it. I mean, obviously it's the wrong thing to do, but if I were in their shoes I can't say I wouldn't do everything to prevent my son being taken away and keep my home from falling apart
Posted on 9/19/16 at 11:06 pm to PrimeTime Money
That's the thing about this case, there's so much evidence on all sides, a lot it conflicting. You can present one side and make a strong case it was the parents/brother. Present the other and it was an intruder.
When I weigh that with the way the parents act I begin to think it was basically both. The parents are obviously hiding something, yes, everyone can see that. But to me it's more than just what happened that night. It's more than just protecting their son. They are protecting themselves. And they are hiding an entire aspect of their life with JonBenet before that night. The coverup wasn't a quick irrational decision in a moment of panic. They were involved in and allowing something that led to this happening. Maybe it was a long pattern of abuse with the son or a family friend that they knew about and allowed. Maybe it was an extortion racket with the mob. Maybe it was a pedophile ring. But there's a whole segment of their life they knew about that les to this happening and when it happened they weren't surprised.
When I weigh that with the way the parents act I begin to think it was basically both. The parents are obviously hiding something, yes, everyone can see that. But to me it's more than just what happened that night. It's more than just protecting their son. They are protecting themselves. And they are hiding an entire aspect of their life with JonBenet before that night. The coverup wasn't a quick irrational decision in a moment of panic. They were involved in and allowing something that led to this happening. Maybe it was a long pattern of abuse with the son or a family friend that they knew about and allowed. Maybe it was an extortion racket with the mob. Maybe it was a pedophile ring. But there's a whole segment of their life they knew about that les to this happening and when it happened they weren't surprised.
Posted on 9/19/16 at 11:07 pm to efrad
Did I read before that both parents have passed lie detectors saying that they had nothing to do with it?
Passing those isn't easy best I can tell
Passing those isn't easy best I can tell
Posted on 9/19/16 at 11:07 pm to efrad
I think you are pretty much dead on. My only change would be that JB was already dead from the skull bashing. I couldn't see John strangling her if there was any hope that she was still alive.
Posted on 9/19/16 at 11:09 pm to efrad
While I tend to believe your scenario is most likely what happened, the docuseries doesn't provide any evidence that is what happened.
Just that it "could have" gone down that way. Pretty irresponsible of CBS in my opinion.
Just that it "could have" gone down that way. Pretty irresponsible of CBS in my opinion.
Posted on 9/19/16 at 11:13 pm to efrad
Your theory makes sense, but then there's the DNA evidence. How many convicted first degree murderers have been exonerated because of new DNA evidence in recent years? It's usually the difference between guilt and innocence.
Unless the Ramseys knew how to wipe DNA evidence off a flashlight and keep from leaving it on the garrote and the other things that were found on JonBenet, I reluctantly would go with the killer being an outsider.
Unless the Ramseys knew how to wipe DNA evidence off a flashlight and keep from leaving it on the garrote and the other things that were found on JonBenet, I reluctantly would go with the killer being an outsider.
Posted on 9/19/16 at 11:15 pm to JuiceTerry
I believe it was proven that there was some brain swelling, thus the strangulation occurred sometime after the blunt force to the head, and also proves she was still alive at the time of the garrote application.
Further it was estimated that she was strangled about an hour after the head injury.
Further it was estimated that she was strangled about an hour after the head injury.
Posted on 9/19/16 at 11:17 pm to Rebel
maybe i am looking too much into this but when the investigator told Burke what that picture was, Burke's reaction was like damn they got me now. Like i said maybe i am reading too much into that but it is interesting though.
Posted on 9/19/16 at 11:19 pm to maine82
quote:Not too hard to wipe down a flashlight, and I'm not sure the garrote was tested.
Unless the Ramseys knew how to wipe DNA evidence off a flashlight and keep from leaving it on the garrote and the other things
Posted on 9/19/16 at 11:24 pm to JuiceTerry
quote:
I think you are pretty much dead on. My only change would be that JB was already dead from the skull bashing. I couldn't see John strangling her if there was any hope that she was still alive.
The expert on the show believed that she was brain dead but her body was still functioning at the time the garrote was applied.
If she was simply unconscious, I agree that John probably wouldn't have applied the garrote as there would be a chance she could come out of it alive and okay.
But if she was demonstrating clear signs of severe brain damage, like seizures or convulsions, they could have realized that this was a seriously horrible situation and acted in that manner
Posted on 9/19/16 at 11:25 pm to East Coast Band
I think an intruder came on after they left for the Christmas party and hid in the house. They were gone for many hours. Plenty of time to write the note and nose around.
I do not believe these parents would finish off their child because the 9 year old son injured her. Not buying it. They would dialed 911 and done whatever it took to save her.
I do not believe these parents would finish off their child because the 9 year old son injured her. Not buying it. They would dialed 911 and done whatever it took to save her.
Posted on 9/19/16 at 11:26 pm to maine82
quote:
Unless the Ramseys knew how to wipe DNA evidence off a flashlight and keep from leaving it on the garrote and the other things that were found on JonBenet, I reluctantly would go with the killer being an outsider.
The garrote was not tested as far as I know.
No fingerprints were found on the flashlight at all. Not even John's or Patsy's. That suggests it was wiped down. I don't believe modern touch DNA testing has been done to the flashlight.
Posted on 9/19/16 at 11:27 pm to efrad
Yeah, possible. Result is still the same.
Posted on 9/19/16 at 11:30 pm to Gris Gris
quote:
I think an intruder came on after they left for the Christmas party and hid in the house. They were gone for many hours. Plenty of time to write the note and nose around.
I do not believe these parents would finish off their child because the 9 year old son injured her. Not buying it. They would dialed 911 and done whatever it took to save her.
Why would they wait until they got into the house to write the note to begin with? And if they wrote the note while the Ramseys were at the Christmas party, and that was their plan, why did they feed her pineapple, strike her with a blunt object, wait an hour, then strangle her, and then still leave the ransom note?
Posted on 9/19/16 at 11:52 pm to RobbBobb
quote:
How many stun guns were available to private citizens in 1996? That would be a relatively quick list to go thru in Colorado for people that had purchased such a device
I mean the police didn't start getting them until 1994
Not true. I had a buddy who graduated high school in '95, the year after me, who had one. I remember him taking it to Spring Break in 1995 and shocking me with it. Granted it wasn't strong like the ones bow because it didn't do anything other than piss me off.
Which they showed the marks were likely caused by being poked with a piece of the train tracks from Burke's train set instead if a stun gun anyway, in the part I saw tonight when I got in and the Missus was watching. It was also apparently post mortem since there were no traces of blood around the puncture wounds, or at least there was no to little circulation per the "experts".
Posted on 9/19/16 at 11:57 pm to efrad
Wow, Dr. Phil is going in HARD on the side of the Ramseys. He allowed the Ramseys and their attorneys to dominate the narrative of the whole show.
Dr. Phil even went so far as to say "It's the job of the police to get prosecutions, but it's the DA's job to seek justice"
Dr. Phil even went so far as to say "It's the job of the police to get prosecutions, but it's the DA's job to seek justice"
Posted on 9/20/16 at 12:16 am to efrad
Is Dr Phil available to stream anywhere yet? I feel like if I'm actually going to watch his show, it should be this one. 
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