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Message
re: WTF happened to JonBenet?
Posted on 9/22/16 at 8:05 pm to Rou Leed
Posted on 9/22/16 at 8:05 pm to Rou Leed
I mean you write a long bogus note. You intentionally destroy evidence and the body. Seemingly the motivation is fear of being exposed for being an abusive household. Then nobody cleans the feces up. Doesnt add up.
1
Posted on 9/22/16 at 8:08 pm to fatboydave
Why won't this thread die?
Because of dick heads like me that respond!
Damn you!!!
Because of dick heads like me that respond!
Damn you!!!
Posted on 9/22/16 at 8:20 pm to Tigertracks
quote:
The FBI had their experts listen to the 911 call and could not detect any other voices. I will take their analysis over a five minute report on a made-for-tv investigation.
To be fair, the FBI's experts analyzed it 20 years ago using 20 year old technology. Obviously sound analysis has improved in 20 years.
Posted on 9/22/16 at 9:18 pm to Tigertracks
From a Rolling Stone article critical of the CBS show referring to an analysis done in 1997 at the request of Boulder Police:
The CBS review claims to have discovered the same thing, although the Rolling Stone criticism is valid.
quote:
Here is what the Aerospace Corporation found in their analysis of that 911 call, according to a report in local newspaper the Daily Camera: "Those sources say enhancement of the tape reveals Burke's voice in the background, asking his parents 'What did you find?'," the paper writes. "John Ramsey allegedly can be heard shouting to Burke, 'We are not talking to you,' and Patsy shouts 'Oh my Jesus, oh my Jesus.'"
The CBS review claims to have discovered the same thing, although the Rolling Stone criticism is valid.
Posted on 9/22/16 at 9:33 pm to Rou Leed
For those who aren't aware of some of the details, this page shows a timeline, who is who, etc. Doesn't try to say one way or the other, just sort of the facts leading up to Dec. 26 , and time afterwards.
LINK
For example:
Dec. 26th:
2:00 AM Neighbor Heard Scream. Neighbor Melody Stanton heard scream (details).
~5:30 AM John Ramsey Awoke. "Defendants assert they woke around 5:30 a.m. and proceeded to get ready for their trip. While Mr. Ramsey took a shower, Mrs. Ramsey put back on the same outfit she had on the night before and reapplied her makeup. (SMF P 15.)" (Carnes 2003: 7) John Ramsey reportedly awoke before Patsy, at about 5:30, and dressed after showering (Schiller 1999a:77).
~5:33 AM Patsy Ramsey Awoke. Patsy Ramsey awoke "a few minutes later;" dressed, put on make-up and went to 2nd floor to rinse out JBR jumpsuit and then went downstairs to kitchen (Schiller 1999a:77). Ramsey & Ramsey (2001:10) states she put clothes for trip into plastic bag (there is no allusion to rinsing the jumpsuit).
~5:45 Ransom Note Discovered. "Mrs. Ramsey then went down the backstairs towards the second floor, then the spiral stairs towards the ground floor, where, on a step near the bottom of the stairs, she discovered a handwritten note on three sheets of paper that indicated JonBenét had been kidnapped (the "Ransom Note"). (SMF P 16)." (Carnes 2003:7). Patsy Ramsey "told Det. Arndt that she found a note at the bottom of the staircase" at "approximately" 5:45 AM (Byfield 1997:1)
~5:45 AM JBR Found Missing. "As she descended the back stairwell, she discovered the Ransom Note and read only those few lines stating that JonBenét was kidnapped, but "safe and unharmed," and demanding $118,000 for her return. (SMF P 17; PSMF P 17.) Mrs. Ramsey immediately screamed and proceeded to check JonBenét's room, which was empty. (SMF P 18; PSMF P 18)." (Carnes 2003:11-12). Patsy Ramsey discovered JBR missing at "approximately 5:45 AM" (Byfield 1997:1).
Before 5:52 AM Parents Checked on Burke. "After hearing Mrs. Ramsey's scream, Mr. Ramsey ran downstairs and met Mrs. Ramsey in the stairwell. Together, they checked on their son who appeared to be asleep in his room. (SMF P 18; PSMF P 18.)" (Carnes 2003:12).
Before 5:52 AM John Ramsey Read RN. "Mr. Ramsey then went downstairs to read the Ransom Note, while Mrs. Ramsey called the police, informing them that her child had been kidnapped. (SMF P 19; PSMF P 19)" (Carnes 2003:12).
5:52 AM Patsy Ramsey Made 911 Call. John told Patsy to call police; 911 call logged at 5:52 AM (Schiller 1999a:78). The Daily Camera places this call at 5:45 AM, as does Bardach (1997).
After 5:52 AM Ramseys Phone Family Friends. Fleet & Priscilla White and John & Barbara Fernie (friends of family) had been phoned "shortly after the note was found" (Byfield 1997:1). Schiller (1999a:78) states that Patsy had called Whites & Fernies "immediately after" the 911 call; Ramsey & Ramsey (2001: 12-13) states she called Fernies first and then Whites. Schiller places the call to the Whites at "at about 6:00 AM" with house guest Clif Gaston picking up the phone (1999a:44); since the call was placed before Officer French arrived, it must have been before 5:59 AM since that is the time Schiller has French arriving at the house.
5:59 AM Officer French Arrived. BPD officers Karl Veitch and Rick French are reported to have "responded to" 911 call at 5:52 AM, but it is not clear whether this denotes actual time of arrival at the house (Byfield 1997:1. "Office Rick French of the Boulder Police arrived at the defendants' home in a marked car a few minutes before six a.m., followed soon after by Detective Linda Arndt. (SMF P 21; PSMF P 21.)" (Carnes 2003:14). BPD Officer Rick French was the first law officer to arrive at Ramsey house at 5:59 AM (Schiller 1999a:77), i.e., 7 minutes after the 911 call (Schiller 1999a:78). Glick et al. (1998) concurs French arrived "just before 6 a.m." The Daily Camera has French and Veitch arriving at the Ramseys at 5:45 AM.
After 5:59 AM Officer French Read RN. In a story based on reading police reports, Newsweek reporters claim "French read the ransom note and later conducted a quick search of the house" although no timeframe is given for this (Glick et al. 1998). In contrast, Schiller claims French did the house search and then read the ransom note (Schiller 1999a:7; source and summary provided by Internet poster Athena). French himself stated in a Vanity Fair interview that after being greeted by Patsy on arrival, "John Ramsey directed me through the house and pointed out a three-page handwritten note which was laid on the wooden floor just west of the kitchen area" (Bardach 1997).
After 5:59 AM Officer Veitch Arrived. BPD officer Karl Veitch arrived before Fernies (Ramsey & Ramsey 1999a: 14). "Contrary to normal protocol, the police did not seal off the defendants' home, with the sole exception being the interior of JonBenét's bedroom. In other words, any person in the Ramsey house could, and often did, move freely throughout the home. (SMF P 21; PSMF P 22.)" (Carnes 2003:13).
After 5:59 AM John Fernie Arrived. John Fernie arrived at Ramsey house; his wife Barbara Fernie came "later" (Schiller 1999a: 44); Fernie was the first friend to arrive and he tried the patio door first (Schiller 1999a:78). This is consistent with the search warrant affidavit that Fernies were phoned "shortly after the note was found" and "immediately" come over. (Byfield 1997:1)
LINK
For example:
Dec. 26th:
2:00 AM Neighbor Heard Scream. Neighbor Melody Stanton heard scream (details).
~5:30 AM John Ramsey Awoke. "Defendants assert they woke around 5:30 a.m. and proceeded to get ready for their trip. While Mr. Ramsey took a shower, Mrs. Ramsey put back on the same outfit she had on the night before and reapplied her makeup. (SMF P 15.)" (Carnes 2003: 7) John Ramsey reportedly awoke before Patsy, at about 5:30, and dressed after showering (Schiller 1999a:77).
~5:33 AM Patsy Ramsey Awoke. Patsy Ramsey awoke "a few minutes later;" dressed, put on make-up and went to 2nd floor to rinse out JBR jumpsuit and then went downstairs to kitchen (Schiller 1999a:77). Ramsey & Ramsey (2001:10) states she put clothes for trip into plastic bag (there is no allusion to rinsing the jumpsuit).
~5:45 Ransom Note Discovered. "Mrs. Ramsey then went down the backstairs towards the second floor, then the spiral stairs towards the ground floor, where, on a step near the bottom of the stairs, she discovered a handwritten note on three sheets of paper that indicated JonBenét had been kidnapped (the "Ransom Note"). (SMF P 16)." (Carnes 2003:7). Patsy Ramsey "told Det. Arndt that she found a note at the bottom of the staircase" at "approximately" 5:45 AM (Byfield 1997:1)
~5:45 AM JBR Found Missing. "As she descended the back stairwell, she discovered the Ransom Note and read only those few lines stating that JonBenét was kidnapped, but "safe and unharmed," and demanding $118,000 for her return. (SMF P 17; PSMF P 17.) Mrs. Ramsey immediately screamed and proceeded to check JonBenét's room, which was empty. (SMF P 18; PSMF P 18)." (Carnes 2003:11-12). Patsy Ramsey discovered JBR missing at "approximately 5:45 AM" (Byfield 1997:1).
Before 5:52 AM Parents Checked on Burke. "After hearing Mrs. Ramsey's scream, Mr. Ramsey ran downstairs and met Mrs. Ramsey in the stairwell. Together, they checked on their son who appeared to be asleep in his room. (SMF P 18; PSMF P 18.)" (Carnes 2003:12).
Before 5:52 AM John Ramsey Read RN. "Mr. Ramsey then went downstairs to read the Ransom Note, while Mrs. Ramsey called the police, informing them that her child had been kidnapped. (SMF P 19; PSMF P 19)" (Carnes 2003:12).
5:52 AM Patsy Ramsey Made 911 Call. John told Patsy to call police; 911 call logged at 5:52 AM (Schiller 1999a:78). The Daily Camera places this call at 5:45 AM, as does Bardach (1997).
After 5:52 AM Ramseys Phone Family Friends. Fleet & Priscilla White and John & Barbara Fernie (friends of family) had been phoned "shortly after the note was found" (Byfield 1997:1). Schiller (1999a:78) states that Patsy had called Whites & Fernies "immediately after" the 911 call; Ramsey & Ramsey (2001: 12-13) states she called Fernies first and then Whites. Schiller places the call to the Whites at "at about 6:00 AM" with house guest Clif Gaston picking up the phone (1999a:44); since the call was placed before Officer French arrived, it must have been before 5:59 AM since that is the time Schiller has French arriving at the house.
5:59 AM Officer French Arrived. BPD officers Karl Veitch and Rick French are reported to have "responded to" 911 call at 5:52 AM, but it is not clear whether this denotes actual time of arrival at the house (Byfield 1997:1. "Office Rick French of the Boulder Police arrived at the defendants' home in a marked car a few minutes before six a.m., followed soon after by Detective Linda Arndt. (SMF P 21; PSMF P 21.)" (Carnes 2003:14). BPD Officer Rick French was the first law officer to arrive at Ramsey house at 5:59 AM (Schiller 1999a:77), i.e., 7 minutes after the 911 call (Schiller 1999a:78). Glick et al. (1998) concurs French arrived "just before 6 a.m." The Daily Camera has French and Veitch arriving at the Ramseys at 5:45 AM.
After 5:59 AM Officer French Read RN. In a story based on reading police reports, Newsweek reporters claim "French read the ransom note and later conducted a quick search of the house" although no timeframe is given for this (Glick et al. 1998). In contrast, Schiller claims French did the house search and then read the ransom note (Schiller 1999a:7; source and summary provided by Internet poster Athena). French himself stated in a Vanity Fair interview that after being greeted by Patsy on arrival, "John Ramsey directed me through the house and pointed out a three-page handwritten note which was laid on the wooden floor just west of the kitchen area" (Bardach 1997).
After 5:59 AM Officer Veitch Arrived. BPD officer Karl Veitch arrived before Fernies (Ramsey & Ramsey 1999a: 14). "Contrary to normal protocol, the police did not seal off the defendants' home, with the sole exception being the interior of JonBenét's bedroom. In other words, any person in the Ramsey house could, and often did, move freely throughout the home. (SMF P 21; PSMF P 22.)" (Carnes 2003:13).
After 5:59 AM John Fernie Arrived. John Fernie arrived at Ramsey house; his wife Barbara Fernie came "later" (Schiller 1999a: 44); Fernie was the first friend to arrive and he tried the patio door first (Schiller 1999a:78). This is consistent with the search warrant affidavit that Fernies were phoned "shortly after the note was found" and "immediately" come over. (Byfield 1997:1)
Posted on 9/22/16 at 10:11 pm to East Coast Band
Patsy did it.
Case solved.
Case solved.
Posted on 9/22/16 at 10:13 pm to pioneerbasketball
Patsy covered up for someone
Posted on 9/22/16 at 10:28 pm to LSUlefty
Burke did the bashing and strangulation in a fit of psycho weirdo outcast rage.
He tells his parents and they jump into overdrive doing everything they can think of to sabatoge the scene and investigation.
They didn't finish her off. That's ridiculous. Burke killed her by himself.
He's a weirdo outcast jealous pedo that had probably been abusing her for sometime.
That's just the way it down.
He tells his parents and they jump into overdrive doing everything they can think of to sabatoge the scene and investigation.
They didn't finish her off. That's ridiculous. Burke killed her by himself.
He's a weirdo outcast jealous pedo that had probably been abusing her for sometime.
That's just the way it down.
Posted on 9/22/16 at 10:57 pm to LsuTool
I'm starting to belive more in the intruder theory. I just can't wrap my head around the idea that two parents could tie their daughter up like she was to cover up an accidental murder. And to stage the crime scene like that and have time and the clarity of mind to write a ransome note without ever mentioning their daughter by name? Doesn't add up.
I think the killer broke into the house when they left for the party. He hid there until they returned and went to sleep. During this time he constructs the ransomed note.
He then went to jonbenet's bedroom and tazed her, bound her and duck taped her mouth.
He carried her to the basement and tied her up. Sexually abused her and in the middle of this she wakes up and starts making noise so he hits her over the head with something.
He then leaves the house and watches from somewhere nearby. This man evidently knew John because of the personal things in the ransome note. He knew John had $118000 easily accessible and asked for this because he knew he didn't have much time before the body would be found and the 'kidnapping' jig would be up. This would have worked had Patsy not called the police like she was instructed not to do.
When the killer saw all the police swarming around he realized he'd never get the money and fled.
So it was not a pedophile. It was someone who wanted to get back at John Ramsey for a past wrong.
I think the killer broke into the house when they left for the party. He hid there until they returned and went to sleep. During this time he constructs the ransomed note.
He then went to jonbenet's bedroom and tazed her, bound her and duck taped her mouth.
He carried her to the basement and tied her up. Sexually abused her and in the middle of this she wakes up and starts making noise so he hits her over the head with something.
He then leaves the house and watches from somewhere nearby. This man evidently knew John because of the personal things in the ransome note. He knew John had $118000 easily accessible and asked for this because he knew he didn't have much time before the body would be found and the 'kidnapping' jig would be up. This would have worked had Patsy not called the police like she was instructed not to do.
When the killer saw all the police swarming around he realized he'd never get the money and fled.
So it was not a pedophile. It was someone who wanted to get back at John Ramsey for a past wrong.
Posted on 9/22/16 at 11:28 pm to Salamander_Wilson
Posted on 9/22/16 at 11:32 pm to East Coast Band
quote:
2:00 AM Neighbor Heard Scream. Neighbor Melody Stanton heard scream (details).
Never knew about this. This is perhaps when Burke killed JonBenét? Or when they discovered her body?
Posted on 9/22/16 at 11:35 pm to Tigertracks
quote:
The FBI had their experts listen to the 911 call and could not detect any other voices. I will take their analysis over a five minute report on a made-for-tv investigation.
The 911 dispatcher who took the call has said more than once that she heard one or possibly two other voices besides Patsy's.
Posted on 9/22/16 at 11:40 pm to Salamander_Wilson
quote:
He then went to jonbenet's bedroom and tazed her, bound her and duck taped her mouth
quote:
Air Taser representative Stephen Tuttle said he was contacted by an investigator early on in the case and provided Smit with the same model to conduct his experiments.
"I am bewildered. I don't know what to think about the theory," Tuttle said. "It defies the logic of what the weapon does."
Tuttle conceded that two marks are close to the width of the contacts of an Air Taser, but said that's where the similarities end.
"We have never seen those types of marks when you touch somebody with a stun gun," he said. "We are talking hundreds of people that have been touched with these devices. I can't replicate those marks."
Tuttle said it is uncommon for the stun gun to leave only two marks on the skin. The body moves away from the stun gun, causing multiple, erratic marks.
"How you can keep this thing perfectly still, not once, but twice on a squirming child? It doesn't make any sense," he said. "I hope that doesn't throw water on somebody's investigation."
He also said the Air Taser does not render people unconscious.
LINK
Posted on 9/22/16 at 11:46 pm to Salamander_Wilson
quote:
could tie their daughter up
except for, the investigation showed that she wasn't really restrained. The loops were over her long sleeved clothing, so if conscious, could have easily slipped her hands out.
quote:
I think the killer broke into the house
except for, the window that John supposedly broke out earlier, had cobwebs across the bottom corner. Which because of the louvered window was the only side that someone could have slid in and out of, and therefore would have removed the cobwebs
quote:
During this time he constructs the ransomed note.
except for, what if the family had prepacked everything and there was no pen or paper to be found? Then what would said kidnapper do with those 3 pages of info?
quote:
tazed her
except for, the investigators showed an actual stun gun being used. Marks were not remotely similar + it did not knock the person out. In fact, did the opposite, Caused them to yell and make lots of noise
quote:
Sexually abused her
except for, didn't happen. The coroners report only showed vaginal irritation
except for, you didn't account for how she had pineapple in her stomach?? And that there was a bowl of pineapple that only had Burkes fingerprints on it, and had barely been touched? How did a kidnapper force her to eat one piece of pineapple while she was tazed, bound and gagged?
This post was edited on 9/22/16 at 11:49 pm
Posted on 9/23/16 at 12:56 am to Salamander_Wilson
quote:
He then went to jonbenet's bedroom and tazed her, bound her and duck taped her mouth.
He carried her to the basement and tied her up. Sexually abused her and in the middle of this she wakes up and starts making noise so he hits her over the head with something.
You forgot that he took a bowl of pineapple to Burke's room first and while Burke was asleep he put his hand on the bowl to make finger prints. Then he took the bowl and JonBenét's body to the basement where he sexually abused her and put pineapple down her throat with the duck tape still on. Then he put the bowl on the kitchen table and teleported out of the house.
Posted on 9/23/16 at 6:53 am to efrad
I agree that the pineapple can't be explained. But I'm not going to let a piece of pineapple make me jump to the conclusion that parents who either witness their child being accidentally killed or accidentally kill her themselves would have the emotional stability and mental capacity to set up that elaborate ruse in just hours. I'm sorry, it just doesn't fly. The whole thing screams of something pre-planned but rushed due to unforseen circumstances. The tape over her mouth came from outside the house. So if it was an accident, and the Ramsey's used things in the house to stage the crime scene, where did the tape come from?
The only other option would be that the Ramsey's intentionally killed Jonbenet. Which I can't get behind. If this was the case, they would have done so and disposed of her body in a hole in the snow mountains somewhere. Not hid her in the basement and then called police to come an investigate.
The only other option would be that the Ramsey's intentionally killed Jonbenet. Which I can't get behind. If this was the case, they would have done so and disposed of her body in a hole in the snow mountains somewhere. Not hid her in the basement and then called police to come an investigate.
Posted on 9/23/16 at 7:14 am to Salamander_Wilson
quote:
The only other option would be that the Ramsey's intentionally killed Jonbenet. Which I can't get behind. If this was the case, they would have done so and disposed of her body in a hole in the snow mountains somewhere. Not hid her in the basement and then called police to come an investigate.
This is the one hurdle I have in my total belief that someone in the house did it. however, i rationalize it this way:
1. They already had plans to leave on a flight early the next day. I am sure they talked this over with the Whites before they left the party the night before. So, they couldn't alter those plans by delaying a flight driving their car into some remote park and dumping off the body.
2. They have nosy neighbors. There already is one neighbor quoted as hearing a scream at about 2 AM. The houses aren't that far apart. They could have been concerned that someone would have easily seen them suspiciously drive off in the wee hours of the morning.
3. And, even though she was already dead, they did want to have "a proper burial" (as alluded to in the ransom note) and if you go drop a child off in the woods somewhere, there is no guarantee you'd get the body back.
Posted on 9/23/16 at 7:24 am to Salamander_Wilson
quote:
agree that the pineapple can't be explained. But I'm not going to let a piece of pineapple make me jump to the conclusion that parents who either witness their child being accidentally killed or accidentally kill her themselves would have the emotional stability and mental capacity to set up that elaborate ruse in just hours
quote:
I'm sorry, it just doesn't fly.
It got there somehow though. Simply disregarding it doesn't fly either.
The police should all be charged though for not immediately sealing off the house, and getting everyone out of the primary residence. From the very beginning it was obvious that was a crime scene, whether the parents had involvement, or if someone had broken it. So incredibly negligent to allow everyone to congregate where they knew they would have to investigate everything.
This post was edited on 9/23/16 at 7:26 am
Posted on 9/23/16 at 7:25 am to East Coast Band
I see what you're saying, but if it was truly premeditated they could have done it at any time, any place. Why do it then? Nothing about the crime scene alludes to a long drawn out plan of two seemingly loving parents viciously murdering the daughter they seemed to adore. In fact, no crime in the history of the United States that involved parents murdering a child ever went down this way. I just don't see a motive.
Posted on 9/23/16 at 7:50 am to Salamander_Wilson
quote:
two seemingly loving parents
first mistake. one never knows what really goes on behind closed doors
quote:
In fact, no crime in the history of the United States that involved parents murdering a child ever went down this way
second mistake. People have killed their kids because they "loved" them.
quote:
I just don't see a motive.
third mistake. The motive was to cover up the previous blunt force trauma to the head. If you'd seen the autopsy (which was performed the next day) it clearly states that there was a blunt force to the head, which caused brain swelling (indicating she is still alive) and THEN the strangulation occurred approximately an hour after the head injury.
You can specualate all that you want about motives, etc. but the facts of the death and in which manor it occurred, are indisputable.
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