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Started By
Message
re: WWII buffs: let's talk about Germany's biggest strategic blunder
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:40 am to FightinTigersDammit
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:40 am to FightinTigersDammit
quote:
Germans using a tactical air force for strategic purposes = huge fail.
Could you please elaborate. I don't know what exactly this means.
2
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:40 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
How come Germany never made any aircraft carriers?
I think that was due to lack of safe construction areas. They had plans to convert some ships to carriers, but those were destroyed by Allied bombing. I also think they were short-sighted and thought the U-boats would suffice. Their navy was really outclassed and the loss of the Bismark and all, really put the nail in the coffin.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:42 am to Peazey
quote:
Could you please elaborate. I don't know what exactly this means.
What he is saying is not having strategic bombers hurt Germany, and in fact, it did. The He-111s, Stukas, and all were not capable of delivering enough ordinance for anything other than nuisance bombing.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:42 am to Peazey
quote:
Germans using a tactical air force for strategic purposes = huge fail.
Could you please elaborate. I don't know what exactly this means.
The Luftwaffe was a tactical weapon, designed to directly aid the German ground forces. Their bombers had neither the range, nor the load-carrying capacity to destroy enemy industrial targets.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:42 am to FightinTigersDammit
quote:
The German navy was NEVER going to be able to protect invasion forces headed to the UK. The Royal Navy would have done anything to keep that from happening. And without air superiority, the Germans can't keep the Royal Navy at bay.
Right. Thank God Britain is an island nation. That's really saved their arse a few times.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:43 am to GREENHEAD22
quote:
It has the commies on the front and is 150$, ill pass.
It's considered to be against PC to put Nazi stuff on wargame boxes.
Also, all of the big games these days cost that much. It's worth the money, if you actually set up and play the game, which I have not.
End hi jack.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:49 am to FightinTigersDammit
quote:
The Luftwaffe was a tactical weapon, designed to directly aid the German ground forces. Their bombers had neither the range, nor the load-carrying capacity to destroy enemy industrial targets.
Yes indeed.
Also, people should realize that the Luftwaffe never had an overwhelming number of air frames.
Here's something posted in the Axis History Forum giving the total numbers in the Luftwaffe in June 1941:
" this is a total from the quarterly report of the Luftwaffe strengths for June 1941. No figures for seaplanes - sorry!
Single Engine Fighters on Strength 1,266 Servicable 885
Twin Engine fighters on Strenghth 210 Sevicable 131
Night Fighters on Strength 199 Servicable 124
Dive Bombers/Ground Attack on Strength 444 Servicable 353
Bombers on Strength 1,460 Servicable 932
Transport Planes on Strength 415 Servicable ??? "
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:53 am to Champagne
Those are interesting numbers. But don't forget that their planes, at the time, outclassed anything in the sky. The 109 was, and remained, one of the premier fighters of the war.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:55 am to Champagne
quote:
What I have thought plausible in the past is this: if Germany had more motorized forces to invade Russia on 22 June 41 ( or perhaps a week earlier ), maybe they could have taken enough of Russian land to finish off the Soviet Union by late summer 1942.
Okay. But I'm really thinking about the last week of August, 1939, after the signing of the Non-Aggression pact with Russia, and before the invasion of Poland. Imagine being a senior German general or advisor, who has been tasked to devise a plan whereby Germany:
• Defeats Poland and Russia in war.
• Either keeps France and Britain neutral, or defeats them in war.
• Keeps the U.S. neutral throughout the entire conflict.
As I wrote before, no rational strategist could devise such a plan, one that would have even a 50% chance of success. Hence, Germany's greatest strategic blunder of WW II … was starting the damn thing–a war that could only end in Germany's destruction.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:55 am to Spaceman Spiff
I'd say the 109 was slightly better than the Hurricane, equal to the Spit.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:59 am to FightinTigersDammit
quote:
I'd say the 109 was slightly better than the Hurricane, equal to the Spit.
I would agree, sir. But their top of the line fighter was the FW190, specifically the D model. The offshoot of that, the Ta152, was even better but didn't see production until too late.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 10:00 am to Spaceman Spiff
But how many 190s were available for the Battle of Britain? None.
ETA. The 190 debuted in 1941, correct? when did the D model come upon the scene?
ETA. The 190 debuted in 1941, correct? when did the D model come upon the scene?
This post was edited on 8/20/14 at 10:01 am
Posted on 8/20/14 at 10:02 am to FightinTigersDammit
Correct, sir. I lost track of where we were... 
Posted on 8/20/14 at 10:07 am to Spaceman Spiff
quote:
I lost track of where we were
Perhaps this may help...
Posted on 8/20/14 at 10:08 am to FightinTigersDammit
Posted on 8/20/14 at 10:46 am to Spaceman Spiff
Thank you guys for the read, enjoy learning about that stuff
Posted on 8/20/14 at 10:50 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
And speaking of the Italians, I believe they actually were the Germans biggest blunder. I base my opinion on the fact it was the Italians collapse in North Africa that made it necessary for the Germans to divert much needed resources to the Med theater. On top of this it was also due to the Italian fiasco in Greece and Albania that forced the Germans to divert resources to the Balkans and more importantly pushed back the original start date of Operation Barbarossa from May to June. This delay meant that the Germans reached Moscow in a full blown Russian winter wile the Russians had time to bring reinforcements from Siberia along with evacuating a huge chunk if it's industrial capacity the safety of Urals. Had operation Barbarossa kicked off at the start of May as was originally intended, the Germans may have actually been able to take Moscow and force the Soviets to sue for peace. But by delaying it for that key month, they wasted any chance if victory they had.
Was going to post this exact point as well. However I think the over-arching blunder that Hitler made was that he placed political considerations ahead of military ones every single time.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 10:52 am to Jim Rockford
quote:
Keeping Spain on the sidelines was key to the eventual German defeat, and was a major diplomatic coup for the allies.
Totally disagree with you on the Spain stuff.
They had fought a horrible, bloody civil war, that had just ended when WWII began.
The damage done to Spain in that war took two generations to reapair, as well as the insfrastructure damage nationwide.
At no point from 1939-45 were they able to be a major player in WWWII, although I know they did send some volunteers to help the German effort on the Russian front, but it was negligible.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 10:56 am to theGarnetWay
Reason why the Italians surrendered to us so easily was they wanted to cook for us.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 10:57 am to Spaceman Spiff
quote:
What he is saying is not having strategic bombers hurt Germany, and in fact, it did. The He-111s, Stukas, and all were not capable of delivering enough ordinance for anything other than nuisance bombing.
Exactly. For all intents and purposes Germany tried to bomb Britain into submission using medium bombers . They simply lacked the bomb load to really hurt the British.
Imagine had the US & British bombing campaign over Germany been attempted with Blenheims, Wellingtons, B25's, and even Dauntless Dive bombers instead of Lancasters, B17's, and B24's. That's pretty much what the Germans were doing.
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