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re: 167# First Place Tarpon
Posted on 8/3/16 at 8:10 pm to Barf
Posted on 8/3/16 at 8:10 pm to Barf
Of course you don't see the parallel, and that's the point. It seems to be a common theme among tarpon fishermen that they think their intentions matter. You're targeting the fish for sport, nothing else. Whether you set out to kill one fish for a tournament, or you hooked five and one got eaten by a shark while you told your buddies on tarpons-have-feelings-too.com that you did everything you could to save it, the end result is the same.
This post was edited on 8/3/16 at 8:12 pm
1
Posted on 8/3/16 at 8:24 pm to TheDrunkenTigah
quote:
Of course you don't see the parallel, and that's the point. It seems to be a common theme among tarpon fishermen that they think their intentions matter. You're targeting the fish for sport, nothing else. Whether you set out to kill one fish for a tournament, or you hooked five and one got eaten by a shark while you told your buddies on tarpons-have-feelings-too.com that you did everything you could to save it, the end result is the same.
You're dumb. Like, really dumb. For real.
Posted on 8/3/16 at 8:27 pm to Barf
That means a lot coming from you.
Posted on 8/3/16 at 8:38 pm to TheDrunkenTigah
quote:
That means a lot coming from you.
You're way out of your lane on this one so there is no point in even entertaining the discussion. You're not only wrong but you're not even making sense.
Posted on 8/3/16 at 8:46 pm to bluemoons
No I don't really. You get lucky and find them on the flats cruising around or schooling up bait. I have only made one trip specifically looking for tarpon in BGP since I moved back. I respect them because they have to deal with fish like this on a daily basis.
Posted on 8/3/16 at 9:01 pm to Barf
I'm out of my lane because I'm being honest about fishing for sport rather than hiding behind some misguided and inflated sense of stewardship? If you don't support killing tarpon, then you don't support tarpon fishing, period. You can't have it both ways.
Posted on 8/3/16 at 9:50 pm to TheDrunkenTigah
quote:
If you don't support killing tarpon, then you don't support tarpon fishing, period.
You do realize that it's not an automatic death sentence, right? Killing a fish for weight is something different entirely.
There is a mortality rate to catch and release but a lot of it is mitigated by proper handling techniques. Also it's not the killing of a few tarpon at the rodeo that is the issue. We aren't so stupid to believe that it causes harm to the fishery. It's about doing the right thing. If we are going to sport fish Tarpon, we should not kill them for weight.
It's obvious you have very little, if any, Tarpon fishing experience and you're talking way out of school. Hundreds of millions of dollars are spent each year to help preserve the Tarpon fishery, if not more. Do you really believe it's all for naught?
quote:
You can't have it both ways.
Again, you are in over your head in this one. Stay in your lane.
Posted on 8/3/16 at 10:34 pm to Barf
quote:
You do realize that it's not an automatic death sentence, right? Killing a fish for weight is something different entirely.
Absolutely. 100% of weighed fish die. 20% of hooked fish die. Never argued anything different. What I did argue is that excusing those 20% and acting like you are somehow better than the guy who weighs his fish simply because it wasn't your intent to kill it is flawed logic at its finest.
quote:
It's about doing the right thing. If we are going to sport fish Tarpon, we should not kill them for weight.
Who are you to decide what is the right thing? As I've pointed out numerous times, you're not feeding these fish to the poor, you're hooking them to have a good time and watch them jump. Just because you've rationalized your way as being less redneck doesn't make it any better or worse. I don't understand why this is so tough for you to comprehend.
quote:
Again, you are in over your head in this one. Stay in your lane.
Your head is completely up your arse on this one, so stick to bitching about mud motors. It boils down to the fact that you want to turn your nose up at people who enjoy certain practices while shooing away your own simply because you choose to play conservationalist on the internet.
Posted on 8/3/16 at 11:12 pm to TheDrunkenTigah
Just wanted to interject that this thread has been highly entertaining, enlightening, and humorous to boot. It's a rare day to see this type of discussion on the OB with some very educated and knowledgable posters
I learned a lot just now.
The more you know...
I learned a lot just now.
The more you know...
Posted on 8/3/16 at 11:15 pm to TulaneUVA
At one point, there was solid conversation going on here 
Posted on 8/4/16 at 8:09 am to TheDrunkenTigah
quote:
They absolutely are. Hooking, tiring, and then allowing a fish to die or be eaten just so you could take a picture is no different than killing one so you could weigh it. It's hilarious to me that someone who harasses and kills billfish for pay can sit here and preach about how wrong it is to kill 8 fish for sport.
I won't argue with you about mortality rates vs releasing a fish or bringing it to the dock. This should be obvious to which one is higher.
I don't kill billfish. And, if you read back, I wasn't just talking about tarpon. It doesn't take a big shiny fish to see that what is taking place is morally and ethically wrong. I mentioned jack crevalle and spadefish as well. I'm all for killing fish, as long as you eat them.
Posted on 8/4/16 at 8:43 am to Barf
quote:id like to see where you are getting your numbers or if you are just making shite up.
Hundreds of millions of dollars are spent each year to help preserve the Tarpon fishery,
Posted on 8/4/16 at 8:44 am to CarRamrod
quote:
Hundreds of millions of dollars are spent each year to help preserve the Tarpon fishery,
quote:
making shite up
Posted on 8/4/16 at 9:55 am to Sparkplug#1
quote:
I won't argue with you about mortality rates vs releasing a fish or bringing it to the dock. This should be obvious to which one is higher.
I never argued which one was higher. I said neither one was zero, as we're seemingly led to believe with catch and release.
quote:
It doesn't take a big shiny fish to see that what is taking place is morally and ethically wrong. I mentioned jack crevalle and spadefish as well. I'm all for killing fish, as long as you eat them.
And that is the entire point of this discussion. You're selectively applying your sense of morality. One side seems to enjoy getting up on a soap box and calling the other disrespectful rednecks, while they statistically kill more fish. If you truly believe it's wrong to kill a fish you don't plan to eat, then I don't see how you can defend a style of fishing that carries a 20% mortality rate simply for sport. I'm not saying either practice is right or wrong, my personal belief is that as long as the species is thriving then I don't care. I'm saying they're both in the same boat so if one morally offends you then so should the other. The act of hooking a tarpon puts it in danger, to do so is to accept that your fish story is more important than the fish's life. Anything after that is simply semantics that help you sleep at night.
I don't like to see anything die just for the hell of it. I even feel bad when people post pics of yotes or pigs shot up on here. Still, I recognize that as long as what other people are doing is legal and it's not harming the species, then my personal opinion carries just as much weight as the other guy.
Posted on 8/4/16 at 10:18 am to TheDrunkenTigah
quote:
I don't like to see anything die just for the hell of it.
Except for snakes. Kill 'em all.
I get what you are saying, and I get what they are saying. But ultimately I side with you to an extent. I feel like you can't argue against killing a fish if you yourself are engaging in an activity that is doing the exact same thing. It may be at a lesser rate, but ultimately going by shear numbers, your type of fishing that you promote is killing more fish. Very few people bring non-edible fish to the dock in the grand scheme of things, so we can't target people as "that type of fisherman". A tarpon fisherman in LA may catch 10 tarpon in a season and bring 1 to the dock. That's a 10% kill rate from that one fish. Add in the 20% rate for the fish he released and he's now at a whopping 28% kill rate. And that's a hard core fisherman. I don't think it's a huge impact. ESPECIALLY WHEN FLORIDA ALLOWS ONE FISH TO BE TAKEN FOR IGFA!!!! How can they stand on their soap box with a straight face.
I have no facts or figures, but if 20% of the tarpon caught in Florida die, I'd bet it's significantly over 1000% more tarpon dying in Florida than in LA (assuming say a 40% kill rate in LA due to release and trophy fishing).
Posted on 8/4/16 at 10:39 am to KG6
quote:
I feel like you can't argue against killing a fish if you yourself are engaging in an activity that is doing the exact same thing. It may be at a lesser rate, but ultimately going by shear numbers, your type of fishing that you promote is killing more fish.
Bingo, to all of it, but I'll add that I think it's disingenuous to get faux outraged when you see 8 dead tarpon floating simply because the 1000 you kill sink after being bitten in half by a shark.
Posted on 8/4/16 at 10:55 am to TheDrunkenTigah
Again, I think that "who is doing it more" is irrelevant. I don't think the two are as mutually exclusive as you're making it seem, but I understand what you're getting at. There's a difference to me between wantonly killing a gamefish like tarpon for weight, and doing your best to avoid killing the fish while sport fishing. I think that most would agree that killing a fish like a tarpon is bad practice. It's a gamefish, and just like billfish, people are going to fish them. This is obviously just my opinion, but I think the scientific and conservation advancements achieved through the money involved in gamefishing somewhat offset the potential for the fish to die.
This is not to say that Tarpon Rodeo is bad. Just like I said above, I think the money brought to the state, which in turn aids in research and conservation, is a good thing. Tarpon weight estimation is pretty well established though, so why wouldn't we just try to do that instead of wantonly killing the fish?
I'm also of the opinion that recreational fishing has a negligible negative impact on fishery health, as I said earlier. Nonetheless, if we want people who don't fish/hunt to take us seriously (which is important when the times come that we have to fight things as a group on a policy level, IE marsh privatization), then it starts with us. A photo of a bunch of dead tarpon in a marina does indeed make "us" look bad, because people generalize, and I think we should try to avoid stuff like that.
I understand the sentiment towards Florida anglers. I looked at BTT's instagram post last night and couldn't believe some of the shite on there. I also understand that the conservation of what we love is up to us, so I think we do have to approach these things seriously, and be open minded to the opinions of each other. Even barf's.
This is not to say that Tarpon Rodeo is bad. Just like I said above, I think the money brought to the state, which in turn aids in research and conservation, is a good thing. Tarpon weight estimation is pretty well established though, so why wouldn't we just try to do that instead of wantonly killing the fish?
I'm also of the opinion that recreational fishing has a negligible negative impact on fishery health, as I said earlier. Nonetheless, if we want people who don't fish/hunt to take us seriously (which is important when the times come that we have to fight things as a group on a policy level, IE marsh privatization), then it starts with us. A photo of a bunch of dead tarpon in a marina does indeed make "us" look bad, because people generalize, and I think we should try to avoid stuff like that.
I understand the sentiment towards Florida anglers. I looked at BTT's instagram post last night and couldn't believe some of the shite on there. I also understand that the conservation of what we love is up to us, so I think we do have to approach these things seriously, and be open minded to the opinions of each other. Even barf's
.This post was edited on 8/4/16 at 10:58 am
Posted on 8/4/16 at 10:56 am to KG6
quote:
I have no facts or figures, but if 20% of the tarpon caught in Florida die, I'd bet it's significantly over 1000% more tarpon dying in Florida than in LA (assuming say a 40% kill rate in LA due to release and trophy fishing).
I think there is some room for debate with that 20% number.
quote:
Effects of catch-and-release fishing on tarpon has been studied in two size classes of Tarpon. Short-term, post-release mortality of adult tarpon in the recreational fishery is due predominately to predation, and to a lesser extent physiological stress and injury (Guindon 2011). In the absence of predation, estimated post-release mortality is 5% for the Gulf of Mexico coast of Florida. Other factors affecting survival of adult tarpon were the swimming condition of the tarpon at the time of release and hook location (Guindon 2011). The level of sub-lethal physiological stress was positively correlated with angling duration, handling time, and body size, especially in adult tarpon, whereas sub-adult tarpon showed less stress effects from angling (Guindon 2011). No short-term mortality was observed on juvenile tarpon released into a saltwater pond absent of sharks, and only one suffered mortality 43-hours after release. Delayed morality rates of adult tarpon are yet unknown.
LINK
10% loss to sharks is a pretty safe bet, probably more given that we can't watch them get eaten. I'm not convinced we can call it 1/5 but it could be possible. I for one have never lost a tarpon to a shark in Louisiana, same for the Yucatan, Bahamas, Venezuela, and Belize. Only one loss to sharks in Florida post release and one loss within a couple minutes of hook up.
Some think a lot of these mature female tarpon get eaten by sharks anyway and that fishing only slightly increases that number.
Either way, it's debatable.
Posted on 8/4/16 at 11:39 am to Barf
Just dropping by to let everyone know that this picture is in the BTT Instagram and Facebook page with some great comments.
Posted on 8/4/16 at 12:47 pm to bluemoons
quote:
Again, I think that "who is doing it more" is irrelevant. I don't think the two are as mutually exclusive as you're making it seem, but I understand what you're getting at. There's a difference to me between wantonly killing a gamefish like tarpon for weight, and doing your best to avoid killing the fish while sport fishing.
You and I are probably on the exact same wavelength on the issue. I'm more taking the other side due to thinking the Florida fisherman are a bit hypocritical. They would kill a fish in a second if it was a record. Like I said, I'd fish at least 2 days a week when I lived in South LA and would only keep 2 reds, enough to have grilled fish twice a week. People called me weird, but I just don't like killing fish for no reason. Throwing away freezer burned fish is a damned shame.
quote:
Tarpon weight estimation is pretty well established though
lying is also well established. I know big money tourneys do it all the time, but they aren't whipping out a lie detector at the GITR. shite, if someone found out there was a lie detector involved in that event, half the people would stay away from the island for fear that people would find out what they are really doing.
In summation, I totally see the point of not killing them and doing everything you can to ensure they survive even if there is a chance they don't. Hell, if they do die, at least it's to the circle of life and not on a scale. That's why I said I agree with DrunkenTigah to an extent. I still believe in conservation, but he has a point that it's somewhat hypocritical.
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