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re: Anybody killing ducks consistently and where?
Posted on 1/6/26 at 10:31 am to DanielBooned
Posted on 1/6/26 at 10:31 am to DanielBooned
Yes, at this point there is enough data and consistent surveys to prove the numbers are down from historical numbers. I think they are even lower than that though.
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Posted on 1/6/26 at 10:45 am to DanielBooned
quote:
But you can absolutely prove the numbers are down from 10-15 years ago. Mallards are down 40%.
My bad, I didn’t make that clear enough. I was referring to people that speculate the numbers are artificially inflated. As in the estimates are wrong and the mallard population is way below what they say because corporations and political gains don’t want the public to stop hunting/buying gear.
There is no way to prove that theory/conspiracy. Unless someone hacks emails or the data base where the actual data is located and can be proven it was artificially inflated.
I would hope most people know that they are definitely in a decline and have been for a little while.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 10:49 am to Midtiger farm
quote:
well then someone should tell all the geese in Ark that because that certain "strain" is about 75% of whats planted up there
I don’t use the newer “Ag” varieties.
I know others that believe the same thing. I had rather my rice lodge. The newer ag varieties are high dollar also.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 10:51 am to LSUbub12
I’m going out on a small limb here and will take the flames.
Drought has been the battle cry in prairie region for 50 years. For that same time the water table has increased tremendously, often time taking roads and farm stead’s in ND for sure. Houses in the middle of thousands of acs of marsh with levees to hold back the water.
How difficult would it be for the DU’s to drill wells and flood the region annually? Wells are a fixed cost and good for years if they don’t get hit by lightning (ask me how I know).
How crazy is my idea?
Drought has been the battle cry in prairie region for 50 years. For that same time the water table has increased tremendously, often time taking roads and farm stead’s in ND for sure. Houses in the middle of thousands of acs of marsh with levees to hold back the water.
How difficult would it be for the DU’s to drill wells and flood the region annually? Wells are a fixed cost and good for years if they don’t get hit by lightning (ask me how I know).
How crazy is my idea?
Posted on 1/6/26 at 11:07 am to Midtiger farm
quote:
lots of rumors on social media that White Oak and some other big clubs got busted for baiting any truth?
When was this said to have happened? I haven’t heard of anything, and would shocked. It would have just had to of happened.
Busted for pouring bait out?
This post was edited on 1/6/26 at 11:12 am
Posted on 1/6/26 at 12:46 pm to Midtiger farm
White oak doesn’t need to bait. They winter tons of birds without it, even on down years.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 12:48 pm to Outdoorreb
quote:
I was referring to people that speculate the numbers are artificially inflated.
There are some very interesting episodes of the Standard Sportsman's podcast where they deep dive into the numbers and how they are calculated/represented. Multiple biologists and long term members of the waterfowl scientific community discussing some really technical aspsects of the count. Things like sex ratio, breeding pairs, may pond count, lincoln-peterson index and other waterfowl count details. When you listen to it all, you get the feeling no one is doing it on purpose. However, you start to question some of the decisions that air on the side of being liberal with the number.
Don't remember the exact methodology, but there is a way that they count unparied males that lends the count to be artificially higher than it would otherwise be. The sex ratio has started to skew pretty hard. The literature says 3:1 male to female, but some biologists doing banding think it is more like 5:1 or higher. Obviously, that is not good for the population. Also, the moment they count the wetland ponds on the prairie lends itself to over estimating since the farmers tile drain them after the count is actually done. So then the estimate of productive breeding areas is inflated.
Then you listen to the biologists/experts who Ramsey Russell has on his podcast and they just basically blame it all on the weather not being cold. Like someone else said though, if it was just a weather issue, all those ducks would be somehwhere and it just doesn't work out that way in each state's numbers.
It's not an exact science obviousy, but seems like flying the breeding grounds and using AI or some advanced tools would do a better job than we currrently do with biologists just counting from a plane.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 12:51 pm to KemoSabe65
quote:
How difficult would it be for the DU’s to drill wells and flood the region annually? Wells are a fixed cost and good for years if they don’t get hit by lightning (ask me how I know). How crazy is my idea?
I don’t think there is as much ground water up there as you think. There would also 1,000s and 1,000s wells.
I do know DU is trying to establish easements with local landowners. The easements would be similar to CRP programs with restrictions, term limits and annual payouts.
This would keep landowners from ever draining pot holes and there would have to be a certain sized perimeter around the areas that can’t be driven over during parts of the year. The issue is the landowners don’t want DU or government “controlling their land” or either they don’t want to be locked into a certain amount of money for the life of the easement when ag commodities could double in 2 years but the landowner can’t capitalize on because of the easement. I am not sure how they are setting the easements up. They could be for life or they could 15 year contracts. I am not sure.
My suggestion was to make the easements short termed like 3 years and the payouts should be on par/slightly better than the yield potential of the commodities. That way the land owners don’t feel like they have their hands tied for decades and the easement payouts are always competitive with the local ag prices.
I don’t know what DU decided or even if they have decided on how to get those landowners more involved in saving nesting areas.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 1:13 pm to SmoothBox
quote:
White oak doesn’t need to bait. They winter tons of birds without it, even on down years.
If you have ever hunted White Oak you would know that. Their rest areas are huge and have a bunch of food. There would only be 2 ways that I could see how it happened.
1) they were doing early season research with Osborn and a game warden probably lost his job for trying make a name for himself
2) the knocked down a bunch of corn in the rest areas that they don’t hunt anyway and game wardens saw it from a plane or either thought that was what happened.
Hunting over bait there ain’t happening, I would bet a lot of money on that. Plus the oaks are loaded there just like they are here this year.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 1:31 pm to Outdoorreb
quote:
When was this said to have happened? I haven’t heard of anything, and would shocked. It would have just had to of happened. Busted for pouring bait out
Flying bait in over the woods
Probably just some jealous guys starting crap
Big discussion on ark public hunter fb pages
Posted on 1/6/26 at 1:34 pm to Outdoorreb
quote:
I know others that believe the same thing. I had rather my rice lodge. The newer ag varieties are high dollar also.
I could see the preferring non hybrid over hybrid because of the little hairs on the seed but waterfowl not eating it at all is bs
They would skip over Ark and come to LA that were true because there is way less hybrid planted in LA
Posted on 1/6/26 at 1:47 pm to Midtiger farm
quote:
Flying bait in over the woods Probably just some jealous guys starting crap
That is actually common practice after season on some places. Key phrase is “after season”. White Oak was unbelievable back before they ever put the levees in. You were just at mercy of the White River. 1 year it might flood perfectly then it would only partially flood the next couple years. I never hunted it back then but was told by people that shot the heck out of them back in the early 90’s when the White River got right.
It is probably what you said though. Someone was just starting crap because Chene turned them down for their Pro Progam discounts or some other BS reasoning.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 1:58 pm to GREENHEAD22
quote:
Ha, I gave up years ago. The only place I know consistently killing ducks is the west coast and snake river. Even OK/Kansas has become front dependent for the most part.
And you gotta have a lawyer in the blind to interpret the regs. The ducks are there in numbers I have never seen anywhere...all on public land. About 99% of which is closed to duck hunting. Or if not closed completely only open on certain days of the week which does not work with waterfowl because without weather they don't what day of the week it is. Most frustrating 2 years of my life watching 10s of thousands of ducks and geese on perfectly suitable areas that could be safely hunted 1/10th of a mile from where 17,000 people are forced to hunt 300 acres of marginal habitat certain days of the week with no regard for weather. Now if a man was well heeled and could afford a $100K a season club it would be different but it'd be different in any flyway for that kind of money.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 2:18 pm to SmackoverHawg
I seriously do not know how anyone tolerates it any longer. 5 years ago I sold a field decoy rig that I had well over $10K in and probably $5k worth of floating decoys, 6 $300 lay out blinds, a 8.5X20X8.5 foot high trailer and another $3-$4k worth of various and sundry duck and goose hunting shite for $10k. The trailer was the bulk of that. I can't imagine why anyone who does not have access to productive private land to hunt would continue to invest that kind of money in a hobby that is being regulated out of existence for anyone who is not in a position to either own or lease an incredibly expensive place to hunt. I started in 1980 and hunted in every flyway in North America and even hunted 4 seasons in Europe (Germany, France, Poland, Italy and the Czech Republic). It was NEVER about killing birds for me, it was always about being where waterfowl are prone to being at sunrise on a cold morning. If I managed to have a couple of flights swing to the spread it was gravy. Almost all of that was on public land or private land where I was granted permission to hunt. The problem now is the latter is understandably hard to come by between people being idiots and abusing landowners and "outfitters" leasing up everything they can and public duck hunting is a shite show. I hunt a large COE impoundment now a few times a season now and it is and always has been very poor hunting but the sun rises and there's always some geese flying to make my old flatulent lab get excited....but even as bad as the hunting is its impossible, even with about 1200 miles of shoreline, to set up without some jack leg claiming, 10 minutes before shooting time, that you are in their spot or maybe worse setting up 100 yards away with a pontoon boat pulled up another 50 yards away. I can hunt 60 days a season and never fire a shot and if I don't encounter that it would be the perfect duck season....unfortunately now a days if you hunt 60 days a season you going to encounter that or worse 120 times....its just not worth it. I don't pay to shoot ducks, not because I am against the concept but because I have never done so with anyone who was half as interested in hunting properly and most of the time they know less than my old lab does about hunting....the only upside is they have the spot. For me its just not worth it. I take my old lab, we set up a dozen decoys on as isolated a mid lake island as we can find and watch the sunrise....thats it. If no one comes along and acts a fool is as good as it gets....
Posted on 1/6/26 at 3:09 pm to Outdoorreb
quote:I baited the heck out of leases we had in NOLA east every year after the last hunt. One year it was still open but partner and I were gonna be elsewhere - so I baited early. A guy that had snuck on our lease nearly every day we didn't hunt got busted....
That is actually common practice after season on some places. Key phrase is “after season”. White Oak was unbelievable back before they ever put the levees in. You were just at mercy of the White River. 1 year it might flood perfectly then it would only partially flood the next couple years. I never hunted it back then but was told by people that shot the heck out of them back in the early 90’s when the White River got right.
Great way to imprint next years ducks.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 3:12 pm to Outdoorreb
quote:
Hunting over bait there ain’t happening, I would bet a lot of money on that. Plus the oaks are loaded there just like they are here this year.
Correct.
Even if they were to, you would never hear about it.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 3:22 pm to Ron Cheramie
Habitat Flats will not pull the levee boards or start releasing water until Feb 15th. They have an agreement with UFSW to let their place be a roost/rest area, and transition place until that date. They have mentioned it in pod casts and videos in the past. They will maintain all water levels until then
Posted on 1/6/26 at 5:34 pm to OleBallCoach
quote:
abitat Flats will not pull the levee boards or start releasing water until Feb 15th.
The reason they do that is because the NRCS payed them to do that. They have to have boards in by a certain date and you can’t pull the boards until a certain date. It is paid through Equip I believe. I mentioned earlier that I usually have ducks all the way until mid March. That is in the MS delta. Late February is when I start pulling water off of timber.
Is there something I am missing regarding their property? The program is for migratory birds and help with erosion/runoff. They usually offer it when you get a new pipe from them or you sign a piece of property up for one of their programs. Then it becomes actually mandatory
Posted on 1/6/26 at 10:45 pm to GREENHEAD22
quote:
Better than laying in bed on TD.
No way
Posted on 1/7/26 at 1:19 pm to biglego
From the chatter I’ve seen on this thread and elsewhere on the board, I think everyone is generally aligned and concerned. We know there is a problem but it seems like there are so many uncontrollable issues- from the weather, the prairie droughts, lack of water, smaller number of ducks, massive amount of hunters on public ground who behave badly, expensive leases, etc that everyone seems to shake their hands and accept it.
There is so much money now in hunting, especially waterfowl, that I don’t know that anything would ever change without a real gras roots movement. From the clothing to the boats to the machines, shotguns, decoys, it’s the most gear intensive hobby I’m aware of by far.
As a younger ish person (34), who has seen the decline first hand, it makes me sad. When I was 16 or 17, I killed ducks and really didn’t even know what I was doing.
In my opinion, I think something has to change or my children who will be hunting soon won’t get to experience this at all- or at least anything that resembles what I grew up doing.
I would be perfectly fine with decreasing the limits of amount of birds. I know that days kill birds, not limits, but what will it hurt to have 4 instead of 6? Over time, I think it would make a difference.
I would also like to see more people stress killing drakes rather than hens. I know it’s tough at first light. But the ratio is so off, and many are unaware of that fact. We should educate and stress to shoot males only.
We also should look at the impact of game raised birds and really stress the negative impact this has on the population. It’s way more impactful than most were aware of.
Finally, something has to be done about Canada. So many more people are going up there and destroying ducks. They have more liberal bag limits and they are shooting young juveniles. Not sure what could or should be done, but I think education and awareness would help everyone. For years, the southern states dominated this sport. But caring for ducks really is a national, and in fact, international endeavor. A rising tide lifts all boats. I don’t care about shooting piles, never have. I’m fine to work my dog and watch the sunrise. But I care about the animal and these ducks are really going through it right now.
There is so much money now in hunting, especially waterfowl, that I don’t know that anything would ever change without a real gras roots movement. From the clothing to the boats to the machines, shotguns, decoys, it’s the most gear intensive hobby I’m aware of by far.
As a younger ish person (34), who has seen the decline first hand, it makes me sad. When I was 16 or 17, I killed ducks and really didn’t even know what I was doing.
In my opinion, I think something has to change or my children who will be hunting soon won’t get to experience this at all- or at least anything that resembles what I grew up doing.
I would be perfectly fine with decreasing the limits of amount of birds. I know that days kill birds, not limits, but what will it hurt to have 4 instead of 6? Over time, I think it would make a difference.
I would also like to see more people stress killing drakes rather than hens. I know it’s tough at first light. But the ratio is so off, and many are unaware of that fact. We should educate and stress to shoot males only.
We also should look at the impact of game raised birds and really stress the negative impact this has on the population. It’s way more impactful than most were aware of.
Finally, something has to be done about Canada. So many more people are going up there and destroying ducks. They have more liberal bag limits and they are shooting young juveniles. Not sure what could or should be done, but I think education and awareness would help everyone. For years, the southern states dominated this sport. But caring for ducks really is a national, and in fact, international endeavor. A rising tide lifts all boats. I don’t care about shooting piles, never have. I’m fine to work my dog and watch the sunrise. But I care about the animal and these ducks are really going through it right now.
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