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Started By
Message
re: All the talk on Roe V. Wade
Posted on 7/14/18 at 3:33 pm to Ole Messcort
Posted on 7/14/18 at 3:33 pm to Ole Messcort
quote:
That's the point. Sit down, shut up and enjoy never having to be pregnant and all the advantages that affords you in this dog eat dog world we live in.
?? What are you trying to say? The father--in your equal society--should have no say whatsoever??
1
Posted on 7/14/18 at 3:36 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
Again, you are arguing “continuum” with someone who understands only “binary.”
Begging the Question Fallacy.
Posted on 7/14/18 at 3:36 pm to Random MsState Fan
quote:
It is hypocrisy to shout "ban all guns," yet support abortions.
Whose shouting "ban all guns"? 2A needs amending not banning. You can't completely ban something that's been made available to the entire public for the last 230 years. We don't need to fight off the British and Indians anymore so letting a psycho in Nevada maintain a well balanced militia's armament by buying 30 AR-15s and thousands of rounds of ammo to go shoot up a concert from the comforts of his hotel room 1000 yards away suggests oh boy maybe it's time to amend that amendment again. Butttt "thou shall not infringe" right.
Posted on 7/14/18 at 3:38 pm to CptRusty
quote:And you prove m point about specious, semantic arguments.
the right to life? yikes.
Does a pig have a right to life? A barley plant? No, because we as a society have determined that they do not.
The current debate is simply about the point at which a right vests for a human blastocyst or zygote or embryo or fetus or other developmental stage to be immune from termination,without due process.
“Right to Life” is simple emotional manipulation ... just like “control my own body.”. Both are crafted marketing, suitable to those who lack the capacity to understand the more complex concepts which have been discussed for the last few pages.
This post was edited on 7/14/18 at 3:43 pm
Posted on 7/14/18 at 3:38 pm to CptRusty
quote:
Well if you shot down the guys helicopter, then maybe you aught to give him some food and water until help arrives?
You have completely ignored the mother's responsibility for the fetus' existence with this analogy.
I'm not sure if I'm willing to give the issue as much weight as you are, but for the sake of a nice Saturday debate, I'll modify the hypothetical:
I have a system of nets that I have strung between trees in order to trap birds. I obviously had no intention of bringing down your helicopter when I strung them up. Yet, your helicopter gets tangled in them, nonetheless.
Should I be legally responsible for nourishing you until help arrives? Because remember, we aren't debating whether or not this makes me a super nice person. We're debating whether I should be locked in a cage if I refuse.
Posted on 7/14/18 at 3:38 pm to Ole Messcort
quote:
2A needs amending
cool, go for it.
Posted on 7/14/18 at 3:41 pm to AggieHank86
Hank, gotcha.
I'm pretty sure I understand the issue...unprotected sex could result in pregnancy.
So why would anyone take precautions, unless they were lazy, or just plain unconcerned about the consequences of their actions?
The fact of the matter is, people see abortion as an antidote to irresponsible behavior.
I'm pretty sure I understand the issue...unprotected sex could result in pregnancy.
So why would anyone take precautions, unless they were lazy, or just plain unconcerned about the consequences of their actions?
The fact of the matter is, people see abortion as an antidote to irresponsible behavior.
Posted on 7/14/18 at 3:42 pm to Dale51
quote:
?? What are you trying to say? The father--in your equal society--should have no say whatsoever??
This is an interesting question and there are some discrepancies in amongst our laws based on child support and even the homicide laws on pregnant women counting as two humans. I'm not trying to get multiple laws changed here but my personal opinion is the father has zero right to tell the woman what to do with the baby till it comes out.
Posted on 7/14/18 at 3:43 pm to Perfect Circle
quote:
I'm pretty sure I understand the issue...unprotected sex could result in pregnancy.
So why would anyone take precautions, unless they were lazy, or just plain unconcerned about the consequences of their actions?
The fact of the matter is, people see abortion as an antidote to irresponsible behavior.
Protected sex can also result in pregnancy. Again, not conceding that this is relevant to the overarching debate, but still.
Posted on 7/14/18 at 3:45 pm to Joshjrn
You are framing the existence of the fetus as a remote consequence of some unrelated activity. I don't agree with this premise. A more appropriate analogy, IMO, would be:
So, yes, I would be comfortable saying that in the above scenario, you were aware that trapping helicopters was a reasonably likely outcome of stringing up tree nets, so you have a legal responsibility to not let the downed helo-pilot die, and if you do so then you should be jailed.
quote:
I have a system of nets that I have strung between trees in order to trap birds. These nets are at such a height and in the known flight path of the occasional helicopter. The nets are normally erected and removed carefully so as not to accidentally trap a helicopter. I obviously had no intention of bringing down your helicopter when I strung them up. Yet, your helicopter gets tangled in them, nonetheless.
So, yes, I would be comfortable saying that in the above scenario, you were aware that trapping helicopters was a reasonably likely outcome of stringing up tree nets, so you have a legal responsibility to not let the downed helo-pilot die, and if you do so then you should be jailed.
Posted on 7/14/18 at 3:48 pm to Perfect Circle
quote:And here is the fallacy on the Pro-Life side.
I'm pretty sure I understand the issue...unprotected sex could result in pregnancy.
So why would anyone take precautions, unless they were lazy, or just plain unconcerned about the consequences of their actions?
The fact of the matter is, people see abortion as an antidote to irresponsible behavior.
Both of my daughters were conceived when my wife was taking birth control pills. She got pregnant anyway, and it had NOTHING to do with irresponsible behavior.
Do some women forego all birth control in favor of abortion? Probably. But I doubt they are anything approaching a majority.
Posted on 7/14/18 at 3:49 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
The current debate is simply about the point at which a right vests for a human blastocyst or zygote or embryo or fetus or other developmental stage to be immune from termination, without due process.
conception. change my mind.
Posted on 7/14/18 at 3:50 pm to Perfect Circle
quote:
The fact of the matter is, people see abortion as an antidote to irresponsible behavior.
Lot of truth to this but that's basically how we are with just about everything once we develop better technology and inventions. Like football for example. Football players spear the frick outta each other and tackle at 20mph with as much force as humanely possible because they have pads and helmets. That's pretty irresponsible. People drive over the speed limit yet feel much safer in cars now than 90 years ago because of airbags and seat belts. That's pretty irresponsible. People have more sex now because of condoms, birth control and yes even abortions. Should all acts of human behavior be dictated by the King's bible or just the one that will stop others from having dirty devilish sex?
Posted on 7/14/18 at 3:54 pm to Ole Messcort
quote:
just the one that will stop others from having dirty devilish sex?
This is an argument that literally no one is making.
You are leaving off the "unless you are willing to shoulder the consequences, eg children"
So...
Use birth control
or
Don't have sex
UNLESS
you are willing to shoulder the consequences.
Is it really that hard to understand?
Posted on 7/14/18 at 3:55 pm to Ole Messcort
quote:
2A needs amending
The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Posted on 7/14/18 at 3:56 pm to CptRusty
quote:
You are framing the existence of the fetus as a remote consequence of some unrelated activity. I don't agree with this premise.
Depends on the situation. If my SO gets pregnant while taking her birth control as prescribed, I would say that her actions (having sex) are indeed an "unrelated activity" to getting pregnant. In the same way that my stringing up notes is "unrelated" to bringing down helicopters. Now, both having sex and stringing up nets caused the pregnancy/helicopter crash, respectively, but neither were the intended consequence when the action was engaged in.
But, for the sake of argument...
quote:
So, yes, I would be comfortable saying that in the above scenario, you were aware that trapping helicopters was a reasonably likely outcome of stringing up tree nets, so you have a legal responsibility to not let the downed helo-pilot die, and if you do so then you should be jailed.
What if help won't arrive for nine months, and keeping him alive is going to be an extreme hardship for me? It will strain my resources, limit my opportunities for advancing my situation, etc. Still going to lock me in a cage if I tell him to take a hike?
Posted on 7/14/18 at 3:57 pm to CptRusty
quote:First, conception has several stages. Tell me whether you mean (for instance) “fertilization” or “implantation” ... and why. And why this point rather than another.
conception. change my mind.
Posted on 7/14/18 at 3:59 pm to Random MsState Fan
quote:
The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Let's leave the gun debate out of the abortion debate thread.
Posted on 7/14/18 at 4:01 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
Every mammalian species on the planet engages in sex. Is your dog married? 20:1
You're trying top spin.
The context was obviously referring to humans.
Posted on 7/14/18 at 4:01 pm to CptRusty
quote:
You are leaving off the "unless you are willing to shoulder the consequences, eg children"
Should football players be made to bear the responsibility of paying all the medical bills of a player that got paralyzed because they tackled them with dangerous levels of force or should football rules be changed to flag football?
This post was edited on 7/14/18 at 4:02 pm
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