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re: Any Freemasons on this board?
Posted on 1/20/22 at 9:30 am to Meauxjeaux
Posted on 1/20/22 at 9:30 am to Meauxjeaux
quote:
He's gonna come in as the slightest of changes in the beautifulest of forms. He is the Morning Star.
So, by your logic, everyone who has ever sung “Lilly of the Valley,” in worship no less, is worshiping Satan, in a church? *gasp*
Lilly of the Valley
I have found a friend in Jesus….
….He’s the lily of the valley, the bright and Morning Star
He’s the fairest of ten thousand to my soul
2
Posted on 1/20/22 at 9:38 am to Tesla
quote:Sorry I could give you only one upvote on that. I wish it were 10.
Tesla
Posted on 1/20/22 at 9:40 am to Redbone
quote:
I'm not questioning your faith. Your conviction, on the other hand...
Again... rats arse...
Posted on 1/20/22 at 10:29 am to TigerOnTheMountain
The bible conjures up Satan and Jesus with images of the morning star. It likely refers to having a power greater than normal in the same sense as both rulers are also referred to as lions 1 Peter 5:8 (Satan) and Revelation 5:5 (Jesus).
Isaiah 14:12-15 - Lucifer used with imagery of the morning star
Revelation 22:16 - Jesus used with imagery of the morning star
Even though both are rulers, they are not equal rulers, as Jesus disarmed powers and principalities when He died on the cross (Col 2:14-15) and Jesus will triumph over Satan again (Rev 20:7).
The morning star imagery is also seen when Jesus gives “power of the nations” and the morning star to overcomers of the church of Thyatira, Revelation 2:26-28
Stars are sometimes used as symbols for divine beings that existing before man in the old testament and possibly saints in the new testament. Angels over the 7 churches are also referred to as stars in Revelation 1:20.
Jesus came as man and died sinless on the cross, symbolic of the unblemished sacrificial lamb, and He defeated death, it changed everything going forward allowing the restoration of man's entry into God's abode and the barrier was removed that was set in motion back in the garden.
Some of this is hidden in the Old Testament
Gen 1:16 Greater Light rules the days, Lesser Light rules the night)
Gen 15:5 Abraham told that his descendants of the promise will be as the stars (also Gen 22:17, 26:4, 32:13 Jesus was that promise, the Seed, believers in faith are the seeds (Gal 3) is analogous to those that come to put faith in Jesus will be brought back into restoration with God as the stars in heaven.
When the foundations of the earth were laid (which was before man was created), job 38:4-7 refers to the son's of God sang referring to imagery of the divine beings as stars. The son’s of God referred here were around before the foundation of the earth were laid, so likely before Gen 1:9 which was before man.
Isaiah 14:12-15 - Lucifer used with imagery of the morning star
Revelation 22:16 - Jesus used with imagery of the morning star
Even though both are rulers, they are not equal rulers, as Jesus disarmed powers and principalities when He died on the cross (Col 2:14-15) and Jesus will triumph over Satan again (Rev 20:7).
The morning star imagery is also seen when Jesus gives “power of the nations” and the morning star to overcomers of the church of Thyatira, Revelation 2:26-28
Stars are sometimes used as symbols for divine beings that existing before man in the old testament and possibly saints in the new testament. Angels over the 7 churches are also referred to as stars in Revelation 1:20.
Jesus came as man and died sinless on the cross, symbolic of the unblemished sacrificial lamb, and He defeated death, it changed everything going forward allowing the restoration of man's entry into God's abode and the barrier was removed that was set in motion back in the garden.
Some of this is hidden in the Old Testament
Gen 1:16 Greater Light rules the days, Lesser Light rules the night)
Gen 15:5 Abraham told that his descendants of the promise will be as the stars (also Gen 22:17, 26:4, 32:13 Jesus was that promise, the Seed, believers in faith are the seeds (Gal 3) is analogous to those that come to put faith in Jesus will be brought back into restoration with God as the stars in heaven.
When the foundations of the earth were laid (which was before man was created), job 38:4-7 refers to the son's of God sang referring to imagery of the divine beings as stars. The son’s of God referred here were around before the foundation of the earth were laid, so likely before Gen 1:9 which was before man.
Posted on 1/20/22 at 10:42 am to Mid Iowa Tiger
quote:
Masons are quite anti-Catholic. I’m not demonizing them but staying a fact.
And so are Catholics not anti-Mason? What I'm getting at is you would not expect to get factual, objective information about Catholicism from Masons, so don't expect factual, objective information about Masonry from Catholics, right?
Posted on 1/20/22 at 12:41 pm to Redbone
quote:
So continue to stew in your hate and ignorance. I'm very happy with my life as a Baptist (not a protestant), my lodge, my Catholic family and many friends, and Catholic Brother Masons.
I’m not stewing in anything.
Baptist’s are not an apostolic church and are post 1600 which is the same as Protestant. Which baptist church is the real one?
I will not, am not, and never will say the people running Catholic Church are perfect. We haven’t had a perfect leader since Jesus Christ founded our church. That said, the Catholic Church has done more and continues to do more for society than any other organization.
Posted on 1/20/22 at 12:43 pm to troyt37
I'm assuming the anti-Masons know that all Shriners are Mason.
Has anyone heard of turning Catholics away when asking for help?
Has anyone heard of turning Catholics away when asking for help?
quote:I'm going to have respectively disagree ... because I am one who can and will.
you would not expect to get factual, objective information about Catholicism from Masons,
Posted on 1/20/22 at 1:18 pm to Redbone
quote:
I’m not questioning your faith. Your conviction, on the other hand…
So does that mean he is going to hell?
Naw - just one shouldn't be a part of an org as structured as the Catholic Church if they aren't in line with the leader of that org.
Go join another org. It's not like there's not plenty to choose from.
Posted on 1/20/22 at 1:23 pm to Tesla
quote:
He's gonna come in as the slightest of changes in the beautifulest of forms. He is the Morning Star.
So, by your logic, everyone who has ever sung “Lilly of the Valley,” in worship no less, is worshiping Satan, in a church? *gasp*
Lilly of the Valley
I have found a friend in Jesus….
….He’s the lily of the valley, the bright and Morning Star
He’s the fairest of ten thousand to my soul
Naw, that other Morning Star.
If you'd work towards a mature study of the Bible, you wouldn't ask goofy questions like that.
Posted on 1/20/22 at 1:23 pm to Mid Iowa Tiger
quote:The real one is one that broke away from The Church of England (1609) which was not a Catholic church at the time.
Which baptist church is the real one?
Protestant comes from those that broke away from the Catholic Church in protest.
quote:Likewise I will never say that the Masons are perfect. I WILL say that current day Masons of Louisiana are completely accepting of Catholics and the Catholic religion. I have never heard a negative comment about the church or it's people. I am married to one and those that vetted me didn't care. They specifically asked her for her opinion of me becoming a Mason.
I will not, am not, and never will say the people running Catholic Church are perfect.
The only negatives I have ever heard is a few mild negative statements from Catholics about Masons.
The only bitter words have come from this site with most of them coming from hatred and ignorance.
I'll tell you where all the negatives started from - the "secrets". One of the Popes couldn't handle that. Well we have been given permission to talk a little more openly. It's all on the internet anyway although If a person isn't one they won't know what it correct and what is not.
The secrets? Nothing more than a complicated system that we may know who is and who isn't.
What goes on in a meeting? Well first we gut a live goat and t...... No, it's nothing more than a business meeting, a closed business meeting but boring just the same. Previous meeting minutes, treasury report, report on health, talk about the next jambalaya for the Special Olympics, where the next blood drive will be, etc.
quote:While I can neither confirm or deny the extent I know they have done and still are a cause for good. My one gripe about that comes from Catholics, 2 of which has been to Rome. While The Catholic Church is a force for good it seems as though the Pope is sitting on a lot of gold that could be used to help even more.
the Catholic Church has done more and continues to do more for society than any other organization.
I've often heard about the rich man getting into heaven about like a camel getting through the eye of a needle. I wonder how it will be judged when that time comes.
Posted on 1/20/22 at 1:27 pm to Meauxjeaux
quote:This is a very big problem then since this Pope has taken over. I know many Catholics that disagree with the current Pope but aren't going to turn their religion over to him. MANY.
one shouldn't be a part of an org as structured as the Catholic Church if they aren't in line with the leader of that org.
Posted on 1/20/22 at 1:38 pm to Meauxjeaux
quote:I am pretty studied up on the bible. I would never have chose the words you did to get that point across. The problem for you is your point would be hard to make using terminology in the Bible.
If you'd work towards a mature study of the Bible, you wouldn't ask goofy questions like that.
In fact the Satan, a "fallen angel" would have retained his angelic image. We won't be seeing that. What we see is temptation in many forms all of which look good.
Masonery is not some pretty snake offering us an apple.
If we properly apply "Ye shall know them by their fruits" the Masonic Lodge passes with flying colors.
Posted on 1/20/22 at 1:53 pm to Redbone
quote:
If you'd work towards a mature study of the Bible, you wouldn't ask goofy questions like that.
I am pretty studied up on the bible. I would never have chose the words you did to get that point across. The problem for you is your point would be hard to make using terminology in the Bible.
In fact the Satan, a "fallen angel" would have retained his angelic image. We won't be seeing that. What we see is temptation in many forms all of which look good.
Masonery is not some pretty snake offering us an apple.
If we properly apply "Ye shall know them by their fruits" the Masonic Lodge passes with flying colors.
Sorry, I was replying to Tesla, not you. Wasn't questioning your study.
Posted on 1/20/22 at 1:58 pm to Redbone
quote:
one shouldn't be a part of an org as structured as the Catholic Church if they aren't in line with the leader of that org.
This is a very big problem then since this Pope has taken over. I know many Catholics that disagree with the current Pope but aren't going to turn their religion over to him. MANY.
Agree it's a big issue, although I'm not Catholic so I don't have a dog in that fight.
For the life of me, I don't understand wanting to be Catholic and then disavowing x% of Catholic doctrine.
It's why I didn't question his faith, just his conviction towards the org and it's ideals he's aligning with.
Posted on 1/20/22 at 2:45 pm to winkchance
I agree and the "cherry picking", as it happened here was like "magic", because I just opened to the second page and there it was. This is Volume 2 of a Very thick book and it is fascinating.
The book is a dictionary and offers in the definition "The Science of Magic".
I offer this from his Masonic Bible. It might help some who confuse the good with the bad in the ordinary lodge member.
THE MASONIC BELIEF
There is one God, the father of ALL men.
The Holy Bible is the Great Light in Masonry and the Rule and Guide for faith and practice.
Man is immortal.
Character determines destiny.
Love of man is, next to love of God, man's first duty.
Prayer, communion of man with God, is helpful.
Recognizing the impossibility of confining the teaching of Masonry to any fixed forms of expression, yet acknowledge the value of authoritative statements of fundamental principles, the following is proclaimed as
THE MASONIC TEACHING
Masonry teaches man to practice charity and benevolence, to protect chastity, to respect the ties of blood and friendship, to adopt the principles and revere the ordinances of religion, to assist the downtrodden, shelter the orphan, guard the altar, support the Government, inculcate morality, promote learning, love of man, fear God, implore His mercy and hope for happiness.
This won't settle any arguments here or clarify any of the "nefarious" conspiracies connected to it.
But maybe it can help "illuminate" some to to the core tenants the good members adhere to.
The book is a dictionary and offers in the definition "The Science of Magic".
I offer this from his Masonic Bible. It might help some who confuse the good with the bad in the ordinary lodge member.
THE MASONIC BELIEF
There is one God, the father of ALL men.
The Holy Bible is the Great Light in Masonry and the Rule and Guide for faith and practice.
Man is immortal.
Character determines destiny.
Love of man is, next to love of God, man's first duty.
Prayer, communion of man with God, is helpful.
Recognizing the impossibility of confining the teaching of Masonry to any fixed forms of expression, yet acknowledge the value of authoritative statements of fundamental principles, the following is proclaimed as
THE MASONIC TEACHING
Masonry teaches man to practice charity and benevolence, to protect chastity, to respect the ties of blood and friendship, to adopt the principles and revere the ordinances of religion, to assist the downtrodden, shelter the orphan, guard the altar, support the Government, inculcate morality, promote learning, love of man, fear God, implore His mercy and hope for happiness.
This won't settle any arguments here or clarify any of the "nefarious" conspiracies connected to it.
But maybe it can help "illuminate" some to to the core tenants the good members adhere to.
Posted on 1/20/22 at 3:14 pm to Redbone
quote:
Not meant to be scriptural. It's not a church.
Oh come on. So the Masons are get a pass on unscriptural beliefs and erroneous public statements because they are not a church? I suppose that goes for anyone anywhere who wants to say something in opposition to the Bible. Like, say, abortionists or gays?
Are you telling me that the Masons are absolutely non-religious and therefore non-christian? My objective view from a near distance is the Masons are overtly religious in their practices.
Posted on 1/20/22 at 3:19 pm to winkchance
quote:
So everything said at a graveside by those who mourn the dead must be an exact quoted passage from scriptures?
Are you kidding me? Nobody said anything about quotes. Being Scriptural or Unscriptural is about TRUTH. And yes, frankly, anything said about any Bible subject should be CORRECT.
Thus, songs and poems that contradict the Bible SHOULD NOT be used in a Religious service like a funeral.
Posted on 1/20/22 at 3:39 pm to Meauxjeaux
quote:
There's plenty out there to pick from
It's perfectly OK with me for you not to worry about what faith I choose to practice or how I choose to practice it.
deal?
This post was edited on 1/20/22 at 3:41 pm
Posted on 1/20/22 at 3:49 pm to Bayoubred
I never expected this thread to go this long. It’s been interesting to see how some react to thought of Freemasonry. Based on my interactions with Masons and some reflection about what I’ve read here, I have decided to pursue becoming a Freemason.
Wish me luck!
Wish me luck!
Posted on 1/20/22 at 9:28 pm to Redbone
quote:
My one gripe about that comes from Catholics, 2 of which has been to Rome. While The Catholic Church is a force for good it seems as though the Pope is sitting on a lot of gold that could be used to help even more.
The gold and other treasures the Catholic Church “sits” on is in the form of priceless historical artifacts not bullion or ingots. Would you have history lost for the further help of the poor? As Jesus himself said, we will always have the poor.
The church gets knocked for “sitting” on treasure, but if it weren’t for the church much of Europe’s most loved “treasures” would have been lost. Also keep in mind this is the result of 2,000 years of accumulating crap (crap isn’t the correct word).
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