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re: Anybody watching Waco on Netflix?
Posted on 4/25/20 at 1:34 am to AllDayEveryDay
Posted on 4/25/20 at 1:34 am to AllDayEveryDay
quote:
But Koresh, a damaged youth, spun a religion practiced by a third of the Earth to benefit himself by luring those in need of group acceptance. They hardly focused on that, or the gun running. Or that he fricked a man's wife to say their kid was the second coming. Total spin.
They mentioned all of those things
Perhaps they didn't emphasize them as much as you would have liked but they were all mentioned
1
Posted on 4/25/20 at 1:34 am to YeahYeah
quote:
Only if the people inside the compound had not started the fires.
Posted on 4/25/20 at 1:46 am to Powerman
The last one they didn't, not specifically the one I'm referring to. The creator of the branch dividians wife is whom I'm talking about. A lady late in life. Yeah the mentioned it but in passing. They tried to paint the man as a saint.
Posted on 4/25/20 at 1:49 am to AllDayEveryDay
quote:
They tried to paint the man as a saint.
They definitely painted him in a more positive light than necessary but I watched the series and they certainly didn't make him out to be a saint
They made him out to be somewhat pleasant in a lot of scenes but they definitely showed the greedy and egotistical side of himself
Posted on 4/25/20 at 4:11 am to YeahYeah
quote:Which one? At what point? In what context?
...a Branch Davidian survivor, who was in the compound when the fire started, is on record as saying they started the fires.
Renos Avraam, 29, British, in jail; Jaime Castillo, 24, in jail, charged with conspiracy to murder federal agents; Graeme Leonard Craddock, 31, Australian, in jail; Clive Joseph Doyle, 52, U.S. citizen, hospitalized in good condition; Misty Ferguson, 17, hospitalized in critical condition; Derek Lloyd Lovelock, 37, British, in jail; Ruth Ellen Ottman, 29, also known as Ruth Ellen Riddle, hospitalized in good condition; Dave Thibodeaux, 24, in jail; Marjorie Thomas, 30, hospitalized in critical condition.
List of dead, known survivors-(Waco cult)
Just to stop you from spewing further lies it was Marjorie Thomas. After being granted immunity, her statement during her deposition in 1993 was "a suicide pact was agreed upon by some cult members in the event of Howell’s death." She also says in the same deposition she did not see how the fires started. At the time she was recovering from burns on 51% of her body and was trying to leave for Great Britain for further surgery.
Injured Branch Davidian testifies: Suicide pact was agreed upon by some cult members woman tells court
In 2000, now living in Great Britain and recovered from her injuries, she recanted the suicide pact statement. And again, she never saw anyone starting any fires.
Davidian survivor recalls fire, chaos
Open your eyes.
This post was edited on 4/25/20 at 5:18 am
Posted on 4/25/20 at 4:28 am to YeahYeah
quote:It is not about the number of days they were there. It is about the amount of force used while they were there. It was deliberately disproportionate and it led to the violent deaths of innocent women and children, something they have a professional responsibility to prevent. And in the end they blame it on the people they killed.
You're right, giving him 50 days to walk out that front door was not nearly enough.
Take any ten random articles you find on the internet and see how they are described. Rarely anything as benign as Davidians. Invariably as cultists. Making the insidious yet consistent case that they were dangerous and they deserved to be killed.
You are literally too stupid to debate.
This post was edited on 4/25/20 at 5:27 am
Posted on 4/25/20 at 4:46 am to DyeHardDylan
Posted on 4/25/20 at 8:45 am to Wolfhound45
quote:
Which one?
Graeme Leonard Craddock, 31, Australian
quote:
At what point?
June 8, 2013
quote:
In what context?
At about noon I remember hearing, “The building is on fire.” I looked for signs of smoke and couldn’t see any. A few minutes after, I could see smoke. I remember then I looked over and someone was pouring fuel on the floor, and maybe a minute or two later I heard someone call from upstairs. They said, “Light the fire.”
LINK
Or you can g watch "Waco: Madman or Messiah" and hear him admit it himself
Posted on 4/25/20 at 8:47 am to Wolfhound45
quote:
Wolfhound45
Just keep ignoring the articles and documentaries where the BD survivors admit they started the fire.
Posted on 4/25/20 at 9:50 am to AllDayEveryDay
quote:
It looked like Netflix was trying to push "everyone accept everyone" with the series. Yeah the ATF and FBI fricked up.
Koresh was a criminal and a nut, but for the most part he was only a threat to those willing to be used by him (kids being the obvious exception). I can ignore a Koresh, I can tell him to piss off, I can shoot him in the face if he tries to use force on me or mine.
I'm MUCH more concerned about the ATF and FBI screwing up and subsequently covering it up than I am some loon, because I'll lose the fight with them no matter what I did or didn't do. You'll lose too. Every. Time.
Posted on 4/25/20 at 9:56 am to YeahYeah
Do you even understand rules of evidence? This is hearsay. Not under oath. He indicates the building is already on fire. He does not indicate who he sees pouring fuel or where. He does not indicate who he hears saying to light the fire. All of this would be inadmissible. Are you honestly hanging your whole case on this? You are more of an idiot I than thought you were.
The preponderance of the evidence is that the introduction of incendiary devices into a wooden structure that had kerosene lamps strewn about (because the power had been cut off), the destruction of the building and passage ways, and the failure to account for the high winds on an open plain was what caused the fire. That and the fact they did not take the precautionary measures to have firefighting equipment near enough to respond.
Ocaam’s Razor. Damn you are ignorant.
ETA: So let me get this straight. After the surrender has been negotiated and while David Koresh is writing his Seven Seals the Davidians have been carefully pre-positioning throughout the building caches of fuel and fire starting materials, before the FBI senior leadership went to the AG to sought approval to end the siege, so the morning of the 51st day they were already prepared to commit mass suicide? That is what you believe?
The preponderance of the evidence is that the introduction of incendiary devices into a wooden structure that had kerosene lamps strewn about (because the power had been cut off), the destruction of the building and passage ways, and the failure to account for the high winds on an open plain was what caused the fire. That and the fact they did not take the precautionary measures to have firefighting equipment near enough to respond.
Ocaam’s Razor. Damn you are ignorant.
ETA: So let me get this straight. After the surrender has been negotiated and while David Koresh is writing his Seven Seals the Davidians have been carefully pre-positioning throughout the building caches of fuel and fire starting materials, before the FBI senior leadership went to the AG to sought approval to end the siege, so the morning of the 51st day they were already prepared to commit mass suicide? That is what you believe?
This post was edited on 4/25/20 at 10:04 am
Posted on 4/25/20 at 9:58 am to YeahYeah
What articles? You cited one. And it was full of hearsay. The fire is already going and the purported witness only sees one person pouring what they believe to be fuel and overhearing (not seeing) someone saying to light the fires. Have you ever sat a jury? Please tell me you have not.
This post was edited on 4/25/20 at 9:59 am
Posted on 4/25/20 at 10:02 am to Wolfhound45
quote:
Do you even understand rules of evidence? This is hearsay. Not under oath. He indicates the building is already on fire. He does not indicate who he sees pouring fueL or where. He does not indicate who he hears saying to light the fire. All of this would be inadmissible. Are you honestly hanging your whole case on this? You are more of an idiot than thought you were.
Go read his testimony, it's on the internet. He was involved in the moving of the fuel cans. And no I'm not going to link it for you, because you claim to be an internet genius, so you can go find it
quote:
incendiary devices into a wooden structure that had kerosene lamps strewn about (because the power had been cut off), the destruction of the building and passage ways, and the failure to account for the high winds on an open plain was what caused the fire.
Gas and a match cause one hell of a fire
Posted on 4/25/20 at 10:07 am to YeahYeah
Yeah, I thought not. But you can cite a hearsay article in a heart beat. No problem with the murder of innocent women and children and then the deliberate cover up of their deaths.
One person. With no corroborating evidence. And you are ignorant enough to believe that.
The standard is preponderance.
One person. With no corroborating evidence. And you are ignorant enough to believe that.
The standard is preponderance.
Posted on 4/25/20 at 10:20 am to Wolfhound45
quote:
One person. With no corroborating evidence. And you are ignorant enough to believe that.
Answer this, what motive does he have to lie about them starting the fire? To this day he wishes he had died out there with his people.
Posted on 4/25/20 at 10:21 am to YeahYeah
quote:He clarified/recanted his grand jury testimony in his October 1999 civil suit deposition.
Go read his testimony.
Graeme Craddock Testimony on Waco Fire
Want to try again?
Posted on 4/25/20 at 10:22 am to YeahYeah
I honestly don't give a shite whether they started the fire on their own or it was a result of the gas.
The govt drove the situation to that point and has the blood of 25 kids on its hands.
The govt drove the situation to that point and has the blood of 25 kids on its hands.
Posted on 4/25/20 at 10:22 am to YeahYeah
quote:Better recheck your sources. Wrong again.
Answer this, what motive does he have to lie about them starting the fire?
Posted on 4/25/20 at 10:27 am to Wolfhound45
quote:
Go read his testimony.
He clarified/recanted his grand jury testimony in his October 1999 civil suit deposition
So you mean he told the truth to the grand jury but is now, lieing under oath to avoid prison? Now go watch him admit it in 2018
One thing you should know about Apocalyptic Cults, is the end game is always mass suicide. They believe the end is coming and for over 2000 years it hasn't, so they have to create the end
This post was edited on 4/25/20 at 10:37 am
Posted on 4/25/20 at 10:33 am to YeahYeah
If he was not under oath then it is not even worth discussing. All this does for me is drive home the point He is a single, unreliable witness. What other physical evidence is there? The preponderance of the evidence is the physical elements and the unnecessary use of force caused the fire. But keep with your conspiracy. Because they deserved to die.
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