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Posted on 8/14/17 at 6:27 am to chickenpotpie
quote:
You really don't understand the founding principles of our country. The states were supposed to have more power than the federal government. You can thank the authoritarian Lincoln for subjugating all of us to the power of an overreaching federal government and turning the US into a mockery of what was intended.
Name one act Lincoln did as President that led to the South seceding.
Posted on 8/14/17 at 6:28 am to WheelRoute
quote:
For all his honor and virtue, the man botched the biggest decision of his life. Shame.
I agree on this one count, he should have rolled up the Union right flank and cut their communications and supply with Washington instead of Pickett's charge.
Posted on 8/14/17 at 6:34 am to Strannix
quote:
Just like all of the founding fathers?
Do you know what the difference is between the two situations?
Posted on 8/14/17 at 6:36 am to magildachunks
quote:
Name one act Lincoln did as President that led to the South seceding.
Seven states published secession documents before Lincoln even took office.
As president-elect he refused to consider allowing slavery into the national territories. South Carolina published its secession documents within two weeks.
That said, Lincoln was as conciliatory as he could possibly be.
"I understand a proposed amendment to the Constitution--which amendment, however, I have not seen--has passed Congress, to the effect that the Federal Government shall never interfere with the domestic institutions of the States, including that of persons held to service. To avoid misconstruction of what I have said, I depart from my purpose not to speak of particular amendments so far as to say that, holding such a provision to now be implied constitutional law, I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable."
3/4/61
That is actually pretty creepy if you think about it.
The fact that this very explicit guarantee of slavery was rejected by the south reinforces my idea that it was also very important for the slave holders to renounce their debts to northern bankers.
This post was edited on 8/14/17 at 6:37 am
Posted on 8/14/17 at 6:36 am to Lima Whiskey
quote:
Understand that southerners are loathe to insult people.
Posted on 8/14/17 at 6:36 am to WheelRoute
That day may come. And should it be the will of our LOCAL majority so be it. But none of you outsiders will force the change.
Posted on 8/14/17 at 6:38 am to magildachunks
quote:
Do you know what the difference is between the two situations?
They won?
Why don't you educate us? The founding fathers may have wanted to continue the slave trade for all we know, the British outlawed it in 1807
This post was edited on 8/14/17 at 6:39 am
Posted on 8/14/17 at 6:38 am to Strannix
Gettysburg should never have been fought, Lee should have listened to James Longstreet and flanked them right away.
Posted on 8/14/17 at 6:40 am to WhiskeyPapa
quote:
that this very explicit guarantee of slavery was rejected by the south reinforces my idea that it was also very important for the slave holders to renounce their debts to northern bankers.
There is some truth to this.
But it also seems like they threw a hissy fit when their guy for President lost. And the guy who won wasn't put on their ballots.
Think they saw that they no longer had the control in elections they used to have.
Posted on 8/14/17 at 6:44 am to magildachunks
quote:
But it also seems like they threw a hissy fit when their guy for President lost.
And the guy who won wasn't put on their ballots. Think they saw that they no longer had the control in elections they used to have.
Southerners had controlled the national government for decades prior to 1860. Lincoln's election - he didn't even appear on the ballots of ten states - Showed that history was rushing past the southerners. They fought to oppose the future.
Like Rhett Butler said - "The cause. The cause of living in the path is dying right before you."
Posted on 8/14/17 at 6:45 am to antibarner
U.S. Grant was no great general either. He was willing to suffer massive casualties in order to take his objectives. They basically piled on the South with numbers and logistical advantages.
Grant got lucky at Vicksburg. He had cut himself off basically and settled in for a siege. Every single time he sent his forces into the defenses they were repulsed with heavy losses.
But some moron or morons in charge of supply in Vicksburg failed to lay in supplies. Had they filled the warehouses in preparation U.S.Grant loses at Vicksburg. He would have broken his army trying to take the city, the defenders quit because they were starving.
Grant got lucky at Vicksburg. He had cut himself off basically and settled in for a siege. Every single time he sent his forces into the defenses they were repulsed with heavy losses.
But some moron or morons in charge of supply in Vicksburg failed to lay in supplies. Had they filled the warehouses in preparation U.S.Grant loses at Vicksburg. He would have broken his army trying to take the city, the defenders quit because they were starving.
This post was edited on 8/14/17 at 6:47 am
Posted on 8/14/17 at 6:46 am to WhiskeyPapa
quote:
Southerners had controlled the national government for decades prior to 1860. Lincoln's election - he didn't even appear on the ballots of ten states - Showed that history was rushing past the southerners. They fought to oppose the future.
That's true, the democrat party's woes can only be compared to well......now
Posted on 8/14/17 at 6:46 am to WhiskeyPapa
Part of the problem for the Slave Power was that new immigrants didn't want to live in slave states. The slave power was opposed to free labor. So the votes stayed in the north.
Posted on 8/14/17 at 6:48 am to WhiskeyPapa
Quit pasting all of this diarrrhea in my thread and try to stay on topic, we know you're a little slow so I'll cut you some slack.
Posted on 8/14/17 at 6:51 am to WheelRoute
quote:
Framing his choice to do so in these, frankly, hilariously homoerotic mytho-poetic terms about his near erotic love affair with sweet sweet Virginia and her supple, rolling, fertile hills doesn't change that fact.
I'll admit this made me chuckle.
Posted on 8/14/17 at 6:57 am to antibarner
quote:
Grant got lucky at Vicksburg.
How?
All he had to do was wait them out.
How was that luck?
He cut himself from supply lines? He controlled the Mississippi except for the little stretch by Vicksburg, which he honestly still controlled because the Union gunboats were there shelling the city.
They lasted about 6 weeks in the city. With fully stocked warehouses, how much longer do you think he'd have had to wait?
ETA: and speaking of Vicksburg, it was her fall, not the loss at Gettysburg, that signaled the end for the South.
Fall of Vicksburg allowed Grant and Sherman to turn East.
This post was edited on 8/14/17 at 7:00 am
Posted on 8/14/17 at 7:03 am to magildachunks
quote:
Fall of Vicksburg allowed Grant and Sherman to turn East.
Halleck and Stanton were jealous of Grant. They took away most of his troops after Vicksburg or he could have gone straight to Atlanta a year before Sherman got there.
Posted on 8/14/17 at 7:09 am to Strannix
quote:Ouch!
I can sum it up easier, the left became the Taliban
Posted on 8/14/17 at 7:20 am to magildachunks
quote:
ETA: and speaking of Vicksburg, it was her fall, not the loss at Gettysburg, that signaled the end for the South.
And all on the 4th of July.
Lee was a turd but he does have some mitigation. His hero Washington was able to keep an army in the field for years that the Brits were forced to deal with. He waited them out.
Lee’s army was constantly riven by desertion. The soldier’s families were starving. So they would leave. Lee couldn’t wait out the federals. There was sure as little green apples no waiting out President Lincoln. So Lee sorta kinda had to pursue some sort of offensive operations. But the attack on July 3 at G-Burg wrecked his army for offensive operations, and people surely saw that he was not exactly the master after that fiasco.
This post was edited on 8/14/17 at 7:21 am
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