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Started By
Message
re: Arkansas' new Ten Commandments monument at Capitol destroyed
Posted on 6/28/17 at 4:09 pm to olddawg26
Posted on 6/28/17 at 4:09 pm to olddawg26
quote:
You don't kinda see how this never happening because it's a Christian majority nation is playing favorites?
The First Amendment doesn't mention playing favorites.
0
Posted on 6/28/17 at 4:34 pm to FooManChoo
quote:show me one example of factual evidence.
There is not "zero factual evidence of that 'truth'", though. There just isn't the type of evidence you accept.
Fact = something that can be proven true.
Evidence = information that validates whether something is true.
quote:
Hey, if my wife tells me something happened and I have no way to validate that it is true, it's not arrogance for me to believe her even though I don't have any corroborating evidence.
quote:youre talking about belief.
...for me to believe her...
this is a reoccurring problem of yours. you keep insisting that belief and facts are the same thing, and they are not. you want them to be, but they arent.
your beliefs are not facts.
get this through your head.
quote:you want to divide people into separate groups and deny them equal rights because youve decided that every single one of them is guilty of some "crime", even though that "crime" is based on nothing but your personal beliefs, and boss people around based on your personal opinions.
I don't think you understand what "arrogance" means. Go look it up. It's all about self-importance.
what could possibly be more self-important than that?
Posted on 6/28/17 at 4:37 pm to DawgfaninCa
quote:show me some.
It is arrogant for you to think you know there is zero factual evidence.
quote:no they haven't.
Some people may have seen some factual evidence with their own eyes
quote:and therefore it is not a fact. its a story.
but can't show it to you or anyone else.
the fact that you cant tell the difference between fantasy and reality is not a surprise.
Posted on 6/28/17 at 4:42 pm to MastrShake
quote:
show me one example of factual evidence.
Fact = something that can be proven true.
Evidence = information that validates whether something is true.
Show me one example of factual evidence that proves life evolved from non-life.
Posted on 6/28/17 at 4:46 pm to BamaGradinTn
quote:
i can pass that test with every single fact i believe in.
quote:i love that youre so shockingly stupid that you think this was some kind of "gotcha".
Can you provide any facts about how life began? Or about what might happen to any possible spiritual entity we have after death? Remember...proven facts only.
i don't claim to believe that i know how life began, and clearly im not going to have any facts about your made-up hypothetical. thats your fantasy, not mine.
any other dumb "points" you want to make?
Posted on 6/28/17 at 4:48 pm to DawgfaninCa
quote:
show me one example of factual evidence. Fact = something that can be proven true. Evidence = information that validates whether something is true.
quote:and naturally you cant answer the very simple question and want to change the subject as quickly as possible.
Show me one example of factual evidence that proves life evolved from non-life.
oh, wow, im so very very surprised.
Posted on 6/28/17 at 4:58 pm to MastrShake
quote:
i don't claim to believe that i know how life began
Since you admit you don't know how life began then how can you know life wasn't created by "God"?
Posted on 6/28/17 at 5:13 pm to MastrShake
quote:
show me one example of factual evidence. Fact = something that can be proven true. Evidence = information that validates whether something is true.
quote:
Show me one example of factual evidence that proves life evolved from non-life.
quote:
and naturally you cant answer the very simple question and want to change the subject as quickly as possible.
Meh, you don't have one example of factual evidence that proves life evolved from non-life yet you believe life evolved from non-life while at the same time you belittle anyone who believes "God" created life even though they have no factual evidence that proves "God" created life.
In other words, you are a fricking hypocrite.
Posted on 6/28/17 at 5:18 pm to MastrShake
quote:It's impossible based on the invalid definitions you've provided.
show me one example of factual evidence.
Fact = something that can be proven true.
Evidence = information that validates whether something is true.
A fact may or may not be provable. If my dog farted and I was the only one around to witness it, it's still a fact that my dog farted even though I couldn't prove to you that he did if you wanted such proof.
Evidence doesn't necessarily validate something is true; it only helps support or oppose a particular truth claim. You see this all the time in a court setting where evidence is presented by both sides to support a claim of innocence or support a claim of guilt. Both sides can use evidence for their cause even though there is only one reality (guilt or innocence).
If you want me to list some facts that support my truth claim and provide evidence that I interpret as supporting my belief in the truth of the Bible, I certainly can, as long as you accept my clarification of the words you defined. Otherwise it won't make a lick of difference if I provide "facts" or "evidence" since you will reject them outright as not conforming to your definition of the words.
**
Edit: I take back the "impossible" part because only the supernatural claims are impossible based on your definitions. There is ample evidence of people, places, and events that are listed in the Bible that have been independently verified that may satisfy your demands, but I think you don't care about that trivial stuff, just the truth claims about God, Jesus' miracles, and moral truth.
quote:I'm talking about facts and belief within that example. Something happening to my wife = fact. My acceptance of her story = belief.
youre talking about belief.
What I was trying to demonstrate was that facts aren't always provable and may sometimes require belief that those facts are real or true.
quote:I don't insist that "belief" and "facts" are the same thing (where have I said so?), only that there is evidence that supports the realities (truth) described in the Bible, which is the basis for my worldview (presuppositional beliefs).
this is a reoccurring problem of yours. you keep insisting that belief and facts are the same thing, and they are not. you want them to be, but they arent.
your beliefs are not facts.
get this through your head.
This post was edited on 6/28/17 at 5:23 pm
Posted on 6/28/17 at 5:18 pm to MastrShake
quote:
Some people may have seen some factual evidence with their own eyes
quote:
no they haven't.
How do you know that?
quote:
but can't show it to you or anyone else.
quote:
and therefore it is not a fact. its a story.
Since they saw it with their own eyes then it is a fact to them even if everyone else thinks it is just a story.
After all, the truth is still the truth even if everyone on the planet doesn't believe it's the truth.
Posted on 6/28/17 at 5:21 pm to DawgfaninCa
quote:this is like honestly like having a conversation with primitive man. you dont understand how something works, so you attribute it to a god. this is literally how belief in gods began thousands of years ago, and somehow youre still on the mental level.
Since you admit you don't know how life began then how can you know life wasn't created by "God"?
Posted on 6/28/17 at 5:22 pm to DawgfaninCa
quote:you said there was factual evidence that god exists, i asked you to provide some, and you cant, so you spun off into some rant about non-life to change the subject.
Meh, you don't have one example of factual evidence that proves life evolved from non-life
this should tell you a great deal about your belief, but i doubt theres any chance it will.
Posted on 6/28/17 at 5:27 pm to FooManChoo
quote:such as what?
there is evidence that supports the realities (truth) described in the Bible
and dont list things like a great flood, which is described around the world in several cultures, because the noah angle is pure fantasy.
so dont just name some history and then put your spin on it. what evidence is there that supports the miraculous christian stories in the bible? because i can lay out actual recorded history that disputes them.
This post was edited on 6/28/17 at 5:35 pm
Posted on 6/28/17 at 5:35 pm to DawgfaninCa
You would get demolished in a professional debate. Getting backed into a corner and eventually just saying "well I have faith and even though I can't prove it, you cant prove me wrong" isn't a viable answer to anything. You never take your foot off the faith base while leading off so you can always be safe to retreat to a safe place if someone starts making a good point. Giving god credit for life is fine, but you have no purpose or place in a lab where new discoveries and medicines are always around the corner. Abiogenesis has many good theories as to life on earth, and we're always on the brink of discovering life outside of earth. But, since its unfalsifiable, even if life is discovered elsewhere, you can just as easily say "wow god is even more amazing than we thought, he put life on TWO planets!"
So unless debating in front of a neutral audience and not a 98% strong faithed Christian message board you'll always have a place to retreat, and people to treat just 'having faith' as a perfectly good retort to an answer you actually don't know.
Also no, I have no contempt for Christianity. My contempt lies with islam.
So unless debating in front of a neutral audience and not a 98% strong faithed Christian message board you'll always have a place to retreat, and people to treat just 'having faith' as a perfectly good retort to an answer you actually don't know.
Also no, I have no contempt for Christianity. My contempt lies with islam.
This post was edited on 6/28/17 at 5:36 pm
Posted on 6/28/17 at 5:43 pm to MastrShake
quote:
Since you admit you don't know how life began then how can you know life wasn't created by "God"?
quote:
this is like honestly like having a conversation with primitive man. you dont understand how something works, so you attribute it to a god. this is literally how belief in gods began thousands of years ago, and somehow youre still on the mental level.
I never said that I believe "God" created life.
I am just being the devil's advocate in this discussion.
However, apparently you believe you are intellectually superior to someone who believes "God" created life because you believe there is no "God" to create life even though you have no more evidence for your belief than someone who believes "God" created life.
quote:
you dont understand how something works
Since you understand how everything works, tell me how life evolved from non-life.
This post was edited on 6/28/17 at 5:48 pm
Posted on 6/28/17 at 5:45 pm to MastrShake
quote:Eye-witness testimony recorded during a period where other (hundreds and thousands, according to the accounts) eye-witnesses were still alive to confirm or reject such claims and the authors of such eye-witness testimony being martyred for their claims (no one is willing to die for a lie). There's also the Jewish (no love for Christians) historian Josephus that wrote of Jesus and His mighty works.
such as what?
...
what evidence is there that supports the miraculous christian stories in the bible?
quote:That proves my point that you don't want evidence; you want evidence that you deem as evidence. That's why I questioned your definition.
and dont list things like a great flood, which is described around the world in several cultures, because the noah angle is pure fantasy.
so dont just name some history and then put your spin on it.
Posted on 6/28/17 at 5:49 pm to DawgfaninCa
I'd be perfectly fine with someone saying a more intelligent being created the first life on earth and I'd be just fine calling that God. But without the personal implications of religion or denominations. Like if someone can't prove their god created anything, yet are positive that it wasn't the other guys personal god, that's when it starts getting silly.
Posted on 6/28/17 at 5:59 pm to FooManChoo
quote:like what? if "hundreds and thousands" of people were witnesses to these events, why is there no recorded history of them? there was only 600,000 people in Jerusalem at the time, so that would have been a big deal.
Eye-witness testimony recorded during a period where other (hundreds and thousands, according to the accounts) eye-witnesses were still alive to confirm or reject such claims
ive asked you over and over again for examples, why do you keep responding with these general statements.
quote:he wrote about stories he heard about jesus. it was something he heard from someone. this isnt even proof that jesus actually existed, much less performed any miracles.
There's also the Jewish (no love for Christians) historian Josephus that wrote of Jesus and His mighty works.
This post was edited on 6/28/17 at 6:05 pm
Posted on 6/28/17 at 6:02 pm to olddawg26
quote:
I'd be perfectly fine with someone saying a more intelligent being created the first life on earth and I'd be just fine calling that God. But without the personal implications of religion or denominations. Like if someone can't prove their god created anything, yet are positive that it wasn't the other guys personal god, that's when it starts getting silly.
I'm not talking about who or what created life on Earth.
I'm talking about who or what created life in the entire universe.
Someone's belief that there is no "God", therefore, "God" couldn't create life is based on the same amount of evidence as someone's belief that "God" created life.
As a result, someone who believes there is no "God" and belittles someone who believes "God" created life is just a fricking hypocrite.
Posted on 6/28/17 at 6:05 pm to MastrShake
Pretty sure Jesus existed
But to be fair to the miracle thing, people back in those days were extremely frightened and credulous of almost anything. They were hysterical and superstitious. If a magician came up to me and turned water into wine, then walked on water, I'd still think it's a trick somehow. My friends wouldn't really believe me without some sort of proof. And I know damn well people in 2000 years wouldn't give a shite and would be like oh yeah? Prove it. I doubt anyone having faith that these things happened to me would fly.
But to be fair to the miracle thing, people back in those days were extremely frightened and credulous of almost anything. They were hysterical and superstitious. If a magician came up to me and turned water into wine, then walked on water, I'd still think it's a trick somehow. My friends wouldn't really believe me without some sort of proof. And I know damn well people in 2000 years wouldn't give a shite and would be like oh yeah? Prove it. I doubt anyone having faith that these things happened to me would fly.
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