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re: Bill Maher pulls the old bait and switch.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 1:26 pm to GumboPot
Posted on 3/29/14 at 1:26 pm to GumboPot
quote:
I really don't think that turned out the way Maher thought it would. Sure he probably wanted to show the similarities between Paul Ryan's comment and Michelle's comment but I don't think he anticipated the black guy taking the bait full hook, line and sinker. Once he heard Ryan's comments and given the fact that Ryan is GOP, he went full race industry mode and the white chick just proved what a lemming that she is. Credit to the white dude for a least looking at the comment objectively instead of going all out race industry mode.
He should have let that discussion stew for a lot longer than he did before he revealed that it was from MO. Then we would have seen some real egg on face.
0
Posted on 3/29/14 at 1:29 pm to trackfan
quote:
The difference is that you have a tendency the attribute certain traits to one group of people,
i attribute certain traits to a group of people who exhibit those traits.
quote:
while ignoring the fact that these traits are innate in the entire human race, not just one particular group.
you just attributed certain traits to a group of people (it just happens to be a big group)
and the particular example is one that applies to a vast majority of humans. group identification is genetic. it's why we have a concept of family and an innate reason to defend those with similar genetics to our own. the animals who did not partake died out
black americans voting DEM, for an example, has no basis in biology or logic. it is a different train and a specific group
Posted on 3/29/14 at 1:36 pm to trackfan
Great points, track. I would also say that Ryan's mistake was using the word inner city, giving opponents ammunition to make the code word claim. I always said that if white conservatives want to tackle the poverty issue, use a white face on the issue, that neutralizes a lot of this nonsense. Charles Murray caught hell for the bell curve but white liberal like roger ebert praise his work on coming apart bc of that. Incidentally, liberals are quick to put the face poverty as black. Read up on the story in tennesee when a legislator proposed reform and a a group used a black girl to harass him.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 1:43 pm to trackfan
quote:
All people are open to constructive criticism
And that's why I always thought that the over the top exaggerations of Bill Cosby were far from constructive. Considering the man has an Ed.D Behind his name the discourse was beneath the title. Carl Eller in his NFL Hall of Fame speech touched upon the same subject (Black males in particular) & articulated his concern for young Black men far more thoughtfully & genuinely than Dr. Cosby could ever dream of. The over the top exaggerations & stereotypes of Cosby I would have attributed to a nut like Pastor Manning or a White Nationalist.
It's not what you say it's how you say it. Malcolm X , Garvey , Eliajah Muhammad , Farrakhan,etc...have been pushing self suffieciency/personal responsibility for decades. Few Black Activists more beloved than Garvey or Malcolm was ,but they did not stoop the the Sophomoric exaggerations/generalizations of a so called "Doctor".
Telling your wife , daughter or mother that they are fatter than pigs & with breathe than can gag a maggot isn't tough 'love' or constructive criticism. People would be far more willing to listen to criticism if the critic can thoughtfully articulate themselves or else the perceived recipient only becomes hostile in return. Even those not the object of the criticism become upset.
I think Dr Cosby should have a pudding pop & a few of those roofies, he allegedly passed around to a dozen young women, to calm him down.
People are open to thoughtful, genuine criticism from anyone ,but not over the top diatribes to your 'lessers'. Those Cosby type diatribes most resonates with others who want their assumptions/stereotypes confirmed .
You see how easily a person can win over a certain segment with one comment about race?
Posted on 3/29/14 at 1:43 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
that is completely irrational
an idea is an idea, regardless of source
I don't think so unless you reject the idea of constructive vs destructive criticism. As I said earlier, I didn't find Paul Ryan's comments offensive, but I would have if Limbaugh had said the same thing Ryan said. Context is an important consideration in the English language, you know that.
quote:
just look at all the "conservatives" giving maher props for his point, even though they don't like him or his politics
an idea is an idea. the same words are the same words. 1 + 1 always equals 2, regardless of who is stating it
Now you're being disingenuous. Whenever, a Republican attacks a conservative cause or a Republican politician, that person immediately becomes a hero on MSNBC and the Huffington Post. You don't honestly believe that this is evidence of the objectivity do you? Why do you think both the RNC and the DNC love to give speaking slots at their conventions to members from the opposing party who break rank? Did liberals celebrate Colin Powell in 2008 because he revealed some great enlightening viewpoint, or because they enjoyed seeing him stick it to the Republicans?
Posted on 3/29/14 at 1:52 pm to trackfan
quote:
Paul Ryan's comments offensive, but I would have if Limbaugh had said the same thing Ryan said. Context is an important consideration in the English language, you know that.
i think you're displaying cognitive bias from arguments form perceived authority
logically, if something is true, it is true
quote:
Whenever, a Republican attacks a conservative cause or a Republican politician, that person immediately becomes a hero on MSNBC and the Huffington Post. You don't honestly believe that this is evidence of the objectivity do you?
i'm only speaking of one specific, actual example (presented in this thread), not a hypothetical fantasy
quote:
Did liberals celebrate Colin Powell in 2008 because he revealed some great enlightening viewpoint, or because they enjoyed seeing him stick it to the Republicans?
don't remember exactly, but i'd imagine b/c he was criticizing the "other" or person outside of their group
Posted on 3/29/14 at 2:07 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:quote:i think you're displaying cognitive bias from arguments form perceived authority
Paul Ryan's comments offensive, but I would have if Limbaugh had said the same thing Ryan said. Context is an important consideration in the English language, you know that.
logically, if something is true, it is true
1) There's no such thing as a true opinion, opinions are in the eyes of the beholder.
2) I thought we were discussing what people take offense with, not whether or not they agree with something.
quote:
i'm only speaking of one specific, actual example (presented in this thread), not a hypothetical fantasy
Fantasy? This is real life that I see happen all the time.
quote:
don't remember exactly, but i'd imagine b/c he was criticizing the "other" or person outside of their group
Exactly, which is exactly what the folks on this thread are doing when praise him Maher despite being a liberal.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 2:12 pm to trackfan
quote:
There's no such thing as a true opinion, opinions are in the eyes of the beholder.
well we're talking about analysis. if analysis can't be true, then science will have a major sad
quote:
I thought we were discussing what people take offense with, not whether or not they agree with something.
well i'd imagine that if people take offense, they won't agree, even if it's true
that's all just subjective bias. this leads to emotional thinking. emotional thinking is irrational thinking
quote:
Exactly, which is exactly what the folks on this thread are doing when praise him Maher despite being a liberal.
i haven't seen that much generalization about comments towards liberals, though
your comparisons aren't really comparable. i was just explaining your comparisons
that's why i didn't want to discuss the hypothetical fantasy example you presented
Posted on 3/29/14 at 3:48 pm to notslim99
Here's Lee Atwater in his own voice discussing the Southern Strategy and dogwhistle politics. Not coincidentally, this audio clip was discovered James Carter IV, the same guy who brought us Mitt Romney's 47% video, and the grandson of the great American President. I think it's obvious from this clip that Atwater agrees with me that context is important and that it's not just what you say but how you say it.
LINK
LINK
Posted on 3/29/14 at 3:51 pm to trackfan
quote:
great American President
Posted on 3/29/14 at 3:52 pm to trackfan
quote:But it shouldn't be any different.
If Rush Limbaugh uttered the same words that Michelle Obama did, I would classify it as destructive criticism, not constructive criticism.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 3:53 pm to Mindenfan
quote:Stunning isn't it?
If Rush Limbaugh uttered the same words that Michelle Obama did, I would classify it as destructive criticism, not constructive criticism.But it shouldn't be any different.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 3:55 pm to trackfan
quote:
Here's Lee Atwater in his own voice discussing the Southern Strategy
Glad to see a lib quoting Lee Atwater.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 3:55 pm to notslim99
BITCH SLAPPED.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 4:10 pm to trackfan
quote:
I've also observed this phenomenon within other groups. For example, just a couple of days ago, J.J. Goldberg wrote a piece entitled A GOP Plan to Save the Jews: Buy White House about Sheldon Adelson which accuses him of contributing to anti-Semitism by perpetuating Jewish stereotypes. If a Gentile wrote a piece like this, he would immediately be slammed as an anti-Semite and likely see his career come to an abrupt end, a la Rick Sanchez.
Then there's a series of speeches that former Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad a while back in which he addressed the dysfunction within the Islamic world. One 2003 speech in particular that he gave at the annual Islamic Summit Conference, which is an annual gathering of the leaders of the world's Muslim nation, was particularly tough, criticizing Muslims for things such as ignorance, backwardness, senseless violence and infighting and religious fanaticsm, but got him a standing ovation and praise throughout the Islamic press, but would have no doubt invited a fatwa on his head if he had been an Infidel.
An example that would resonate with most of this board, since most of us are in SEC country: We can find plenty of posts on any SEC board calling Bama or Auburn fans toothless inbreds.
But how would those same message boards react to those insults if they came from Southern Cal or Notre Dame?
Posted on 3/29/14 at 4:11 pm to Bestbank Tiger
I heard plenty of slow Iowa pig farmer comments both time we played LSU. It hurt oh so badly. 
Posted on 3/29/14 at 5:08 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
outside of the above comment, she was really nothing more than a token DEM spouting the same hive mind shite
Neera Tanden.
"Tanden previously served as senior advisor for health reform at the Department of Health and Human Services, advising Secretary Kathleen Sebelius and working on President Obama’s health reform team in the White House to pass the bill. In that role she developed policies around reform and worked with Congress on particular provisions of the legislation."
Ahhh, now we know who to blame for this crap hitting the fan!
Posted on 3/29/14 at 5:13 pm to Jbird
Atwater was morally bankrupt, not someone I would trust at his word.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 5:13 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
at least the "conservative" believed in AGW and was against making abortion illegal. he had some actual individual thoughts/opinions
Yeah, a few posters here apparently didn't recognize him, implying that he is a token Republican of little note.
He is the former Assistant Majority Leader of the United States House of Representatives.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 5:45 pm to trackfan
quote:And that ladies and gentlemen is why there will never be honest and open dialogues about race in this country.
. If Rush Limbaugh uttered the same words that Michelle Obama did, I would classify it as destructive criticism, not constructive criticism.
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