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Started By
Message
re: Bill Nye Smears Ken Ham
Posted on 2/11/14 at 6:52 pm to MagicCityBlazer
Posted on 2/11/14 at 6:52 pm to MagicCityBlazer
Dammit
0
Posted on 2/11/14 at 6:53 pm to TheDoc
quote:
hen they aren't really Christians because that's.. How do I say this... Kind of the whole point of Christianity.
I love how atheists think they understand the point of Christianity and fall so quickly into the no true Scotman's fallacy that they use to criticize those that defend negative moments in history.
Posted on 2/11/14 at 6:54 pm to TheDoc
quote:
Then they aren't really Christians because that's.. How do I say this... Kind of the whole point of Christianity.
This is accurate. According to orthodox Christianity, accepting the physical resurrection is a requirement for one to call themselves a Christian.
Just as accepting everything else I listed is.
Personal belief and interpretation doesn't change official church doctrine. Want to believe Jesus wasn't God? Fine, but every Christian church says you aren't a Christian.
Posted on 2/11/14 at 6:55 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:which part of . . . .
What is being referred to here is just a version of invincible ignorance.
quote:. . . does the Vatican II finding not address?
You MUST believe there is one triune God, consisting of father, son and holy ghost.
You MUST believe Jesus is the son of God, sent to die for the sins of mankind.
You MUST believe that he rose from the grave after death.
You MUST believe what Jesus said about heaven, hell and eternity.
You MUST trust in him for your salvation, repent and seek to follow him and make him the lord of your life.
This post was edited on 2/11/14 at 6:56 pm
Posted on 2/11/14 at 6:56 pm to TK421
quote:
I love how atheists think they understand the point of Christianity and fall so quickly into the no true Scotman's fallacy that they use to criticize those that defend negative moments in history.
This is a misuse of the Scotsman fallacy.
If I said "No Christian who could ever fall away was a true Christian to begin with", that is an example of the Scotsman fallacy.
When every Christian denomination in existence says as part of official doctrine that Jesus rose from the dead in a physical sense, denying that BY DEFINITION makes you not a Christian by their definition of the word.
Posted on 2/11/14 at 6:56 pm to TK421
quote:
I love how atheists think they understand the point of Christianity and fall so quickly into the no true Scotman's fallacy that they use to criticize those that defend negative moments in history.
A lot of the time that is actually invincible ignorance that religions can be bad. Atheists cite bad situations empowered by religion and theists use invincible ignorance that it wasn't religion.
Posted on 2/11/14 at 6:57 pm to TheDoc
quote:
Just like Germs and atoms amirite?
I don't know why I'm replying to this but your misunderstanding of science is scary. Germs and atoms are observable. Last time I checked, 'atom' as a theory, I was baffled at what I found.
Posted on 2/11/14 at 6:58 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
. does the Vatican II finding not address?
It addresses invincible ignorance.
Which has always been a part of catholic teaching and which I included in my earlier post as the only caveat.
Posted on 2/11/14 at 6:59 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
This is a misuse of the Scotsman fallacy.
No it's not, or you don't understand the fallacy (which wouldn't be surprising).
quote:
When every Christian denomination in existence
You've been called out multiple times for this statement, but you still repeat it.
Posted on 2/11/14 at 7:01 pm to TK421
Because you haven't listed anything to prove me wrong. Please list the denominations whose doctrine says Jesus' resurrection was not literal.
And yes, you are still misusing the Scotsman fallacy. I am sorry you do not see it an have to resort to personal insults.
And yes, you are still misusing the Scotsman fallacy. I am sorry you do not see it an have to resort to personal insults.
Posted on 2/11/14 at 7:02 pm to MagicCityBlazer
quote:The term you're searching for is 'invincible ignorance fallacy'. Just FYI.
Atheists cite bad situations empowered by religion and theists use invincible ignorance that it wasn't religion.
Posted on 2/11/14 at 7:03 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Please list the denominations whose doctrine says Jesus' resurrection was not literal.
You don't have to belong to a denomination to be a Christian. You are mistaken, again.
quote:
And yes, you are still misusing the Scotsman fallacy.
Whatever you say. Posted on 2/11/14 at 7:04 pm to TK421
quote:
You've been called out multiple times for this statement, but you still repeat it.
You are insisting that personal beliefs of individual Christians proves me wrong when it does nothing of the sort. The discussion is about church doctrine.
Plenty of people call themselves catholics and still use birth control. The church says they are living in mortal sin whether the individual catholic believes it or not.
Likewise, a Baptist can believe that Jesus' didn't literally rise from the dead. That doesn't change the fact that the Baptist church wouldn't consider him a Baptist.
Posted on 2/11/14 at 7:06 pm to TK421
quote:
You don't have to belong to a denomination to be a Christian. You are mistaken, again.
Of course you can call yourself a Christian without belonging to any denomination. That doesn't change the official position of any church agrees nor does it mean any church would acknowledge you as a Christian or a follow of Jesus if you dispute their core teachings.
If you say you don't believe in the resurrection, Jesus' divinity, etc. orthodox Christianity says you aren't a Christian no matter how much it pisses you off.
This post was edited on 2/11/14 at 7:07 pm
Posted on 2/11/14 at 7:14 pm to NC_Tigah
Zneidsihaoweheireishsgduxi386!jdidjY*38???????????????????????
carry on.
carry on.
This post was edited on 2/11/14 at 7:26 pm
Posted on 2/11/14 at 7:17 pm to rcocke2
quote:
I don't know why I'm replying to this but your misunderstanding of science is scary. Germs and atoms are observable. Last time I checked, 'atom' as a theory, I was baffled at what I found
Yet both were still theories before they were actually observed. And theories they remain.
Posted on 2/11/14 at 7:18 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:Let's see . . .
It addresses invincible ignorance.
quote:So IAW Vatican II and Catholic Church teaching, you were wrong. Simply, purely factually wrong. Period!
there is a very narrow and specific set of requirements for salvation.
You MUST believe there is one triune God, consisting of father, son and holy ghost.
You MUST believe Jesus is the son of God, sent to die for the sins of mankind.
You MUST believe that he rose from the grave after death.
You MUST believe what Jesus said about heaven, hell and eternity.
You MUST trust in him for your salvation, repent and seek to follow him and make him the lord of your life.
Now we could address various Episcopal, Methodist, and even Baptist sects, but it's evident that you're intent on engaging in your own invincible ignorance fallacy here.
In terms of belief, it's my belief you learned something.
This post was edited on 2/11/14 at 7:19 pm
Posted on 2/11/14 at 7:23 pm to TK421
quote:
love how atheists think they understand the point of Christianity
Right, because I wasn't a Christian for the majority of my life or anything.
Silly me.
Posted on 2/11/14 at 7:24 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
So IAW Vatican II and Catholic Church teaching, you were wrong. Simply, purely factually wrong. Period!
Does the catholic church officially deny the divinity of Christ, the resurrection, etc.?
Does it say someone can deny those things and be a catholic?
it is my belief you are dancing around the issue and trying to find loopholes in the original questioned posed to you.
quote:
Now we could address various Episcopal, Methodist, and even Baptist sects, but it's evident that you're intent on engaging in your own invincible ignorance fallacy here.
None deny anything I listed as part of church doctrine, but at least you finally started trying to rattle off some actual denominations.
This post was edited on 2/11/14 at 7:25 pm
Posted on 2/11/14 at 7:28 pm to rcocke2
quote:
I don't know why I'm replying to this but your misunderstanding of science is scary. Germs and atoms are observable. Last time I checked, 'atom' as a theory, I was baffled at what I found.
Am I being punked?
Where's Ashton?
But seriously another point just has to be addressed: if someone doesn't believe Jesus rose from the dead and died for their sins, they aren't a Christian.
That is pretty much the biggest tenet of Christianity.
Jesus saving mankind from sin by dying on the cross and rising from the dead..
You know.. The resurrection.
The foundation of the Christian faith.
This post was edited on 2/11/14 at 7:29 pm
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