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1
Posted on 5/7/23 at 4:18 pm to teke184
quote:
8 years of QE under Obama
Which is why you get rid of the Fed. The Fed will do anything in its power to protect a liberal socialist President ............
...... until it can't. Frig the bandaids. It is time to evolve.
Posted on 5/7/23 at 4:21 pm to teke184
quote:
all the money handed out due to Covid closures did not help.
neither did the whopping trump tax cut for the rich and corporations. note the debt ceiling under trump kept going up.
Posted on 5/7/23 at 4:29 pm to CelticDog
Personal spending tends to be far better for the economy than government spending.
Government spending tends to be routed through places like Ukraine and back into politicians’ pockets.
Personal spending tends to actually go back into the economy and create jobs rather than bed-feathering for politicians.
Government spending tends to be routed through places like Ukraine and back into politicians’ pockets.
Personal spending tends to actually go back into the economy and create jobs rather than bed-feathering for politicians.
Posted on 5/7/23 at 5:07 pm to frogtown
This argument isn't really based in reality. I understand you to be a free trade person. Free Trade is a new concept. To think that it is a perfect system is, as you say, Folly.
Free trade is very flawed!
Free trade is very flawed!
Posted on 5/7/23 at 5:09 pm to ProSoundAdam
quote:
Interesting that you pick 1 era in the vastness of our nation's history
An era any person with any knowledge of history knows was a huge moment in US history. Any such person would know that the Smoot Harley tariffs were huge and resulted in tariff wars across the world reducing imports and exports of the US. A time when the US was pulling ahead of the world in industrial development and were selling goods all over the world.
Of course people ignorant of facts naively believe tariffs are wonderful things despite historic failures of major protectionist tariff efforts.
This post was edited on 5/7/23 at 5:12 pm
Posted on 5/7/23 at 5:12 pm to ProSoundAdam
quote:
This argument isn't really based in reality. I understand you to be a free trade person. Free Trade is a new concept. To think that it is a perfect system is, as you say, Folly.
Free trade is very flawed!
Protectionism is many times worse. You need to get your head out of Trump's arse.
This is from Hoppe.
"International protectionism, while obviously less destructive than a policy of interpersonal or inter-regional protectionism, would result in precisely the same effect and constitute a sure recipe for America’s further economic decline. To be sure, some American jobs and industries would be saved, but such savings would come at a price. The standard of living and the real income of the American consumers of foreign products would be forcibly reduced. The cost to all U.S. producers who employ the protected industry’s products as their own input factors would be raised, and they would be rendered internationally less competitive. Moreover, what could foreigners do with the money they earned from their U.S. imports? They could either buy American goods, or they could leave it here and invest it, and if their imports were stopped or reduced, they would buy fewer American goods or invest smaller amounts. Hence, as a result of saving a few inefficient American jobs, a far greater number of efficient American jobs would be destroyed or prevented from coming into existence."
This post was edited on 5/7/23 at 5:13 pm
Posted on 5/7/23 at 5:13 pm to frogtown
Friedman blames the Great Depression on the death of the Fed Chair Benjamin Strong.
He argues that had he not died he would have made the right policy decisions.
He argues that had he not died he would have made the right policy decisions.
Posted on 5/7/23 at 5:15 pm to frogtown
This really has little to do with Trump outside the fact that he is advocating for this.
Posted on 5/7/23 at 5:18 pm to I B Freeman
Smoot Hawley had nothing, I mean absolutely nothing to do with causing the great depression.
We funded this government with tariffs until FDR. I'm sure the USA went through an industrial age just fine without free trade.
We funded this government with tariffs until FDR. I'm sure the USA went through an industrial age just fine without free trade.
Posted on 5/7/23 at 5:33 pm to frogtown
No, it's not. That's just what you have been taught. There are so many issues with free trade and some I have seen talked about here, you refuse to address.
One of those are the effects of free trade with China and how USA businesses are now trying to implement some of the policies of China on the American people.
Tariffs never caused a collapse here. Tariffs never stopped life here. From 1790 to 1860, average tariffs increased from 20 percent to 60 percent before declining again to 20 percent. We are still here.
The Tariff of 1789 was the second bill signed by President George Washington imposing a tariff of about 5% on nearly all imports, with a few exceptions.
Even still, you are forgetting the total plan. Should Trump place Tariffs as advertised along with the lowering of income taxes for businesses and citizens, the real wages will rise and there will be a massive boom in the economy.
One of those are the effects of free trade with China and how USA businesses are now trying to implement some of the policies of China on the American people.
Tariffs never caused a collapse here. Tariffs never stopped life here. From 1790 to 1860, average tariffs increased from 20 percent to 60 percent before declining again to 20 percent. We are still here.
The Tariff of 1789 was the second bill signed by President George Washington imposing a tariff of about 5% on nearly all imports, with a few exceptions.
Even still, you are forgetting the total plan. Should Trump place Tariffs as advertised along with the lowering of income taxes for businesses and citizens, the real wages will rise and there will be a massive boom in the economy.
Posted on 5/7/23 at 5:49 pm to ProSoundAdam
quote:
Should Trump place Tariffs as advertised along with the lowering of income taxes for businesses and citizens, the real wages will rise and there will be a massive boom in the economy.
You are exactly right. We know what mo' money in tha peeples pockets duz, now don't we? Spenders and Producers, UNITE!!
Posted on 5/7/23 at 6:12 pm to Timeoday
During the first three years of the Trump presidency, wage growth was off the charts, especially for low-income workers and African Americans. The third-quarter economic data released Thursday confirm once again that Trump is on the job for U.S. workers.
Leading up to the 2016 election, economists including eight Nobel laureates derided his economic ignorance and called his proposals “magical thinking.”
And prices DID NOT SOAR!
LINK
Leading up to the 2016 election, economists including eight Nobel laureates derided his economic ignorance and called his proposals “magical thinking.”
And prices DID NOT SOAR!
LINK
Posted on 5/7/23 at 6:17 pm to I B Freeman
I call BS. There was no Chinese trinket industry back then.
Posted on 5/7/23 at 6:26 pm to ProSoundAdam
quote:
Tariffs never caused a collapse here. Tariffs never stopped life here. From 1790 to 1860, average tariffs increased from 20 percent to 60 percent before declining again to 20 percent. We are still here.
The Tariff of 1789 was the second bill signed by President George Washington imposing a tariff of about 5% on nearly all imports, with a few exceptions.
I don't care what happened over a 100 years ago. It is irrelevant.
We have income taxes now. We didn't way back then. Like I said previously, I doubt we will be able to get rid of the 16th amendment. I doubt income taxes will ever go away.
Tariffs are taxes. All Trump is doing is adding more taxes on the American people.
Trump's tariffs were a joke. The revenue generated by the tariffs were used to bailout American farmers whom China retaliated against.
farmer bailouts
Meanwhile, Trump's tariffs hit American consumers. From Taxfoundation.org.
"The Trump administration imposed nearly $80 billion worth of new taxes on Americans by levying tariffs on thousands of products, which is equivalent to one of the largest tax increases in decades. Based on 2021 import levels and country exemptions, the tariffs amounted to a $52.6 billion tax increase in 2021."
What was the gain here?
This post was edited on 5/7/23 at 6:36 pm
Posted on 5/7/23 at 6:28 pm to ProSoundAdam
quote:
No, it's not. That's just what you have been taught.
So I am to believe you because you know more than leading economists.
Posted on 5/7/23 at 6:33 pm to ProSoundAdam
quote:And inflationary. Yay.
The plan appears to be a large scale shift.
Posted on 5/7/23 at 6:34 pm to ProSoundAdam
quote:
Even still, you are forgetting the total plan. Should Trump place Tariffs as advertised along with the lowering of income taxes for businesses and citizens, the real wages will rise and there will be a massive boom in the economy.
Again. I have seen "zero" about Trump getting rid of income taxes. He wants to get use tariffs to get rid of payroll taxes. Quiting saying he wants to get rid of income taxes or provide a link which backs your claim.
Posted on 5/7/23 at 6:40 pm to frogtown
quote:
I don't care what happened over a 100 years ago. It is irrelevant.
No it's not. That is just your way of dismissing the past.
quote:
"The Trump administration imposed nearly $80 billion worth of new taxes on Americans by levying tariffs on thousands of products, which is equivalent to one of the largest tax increases in decades. Based on 2021 import levels and country exemptions, the tariffs amounted to a $52.6 billion tax increase in 2021."
Provide that link so I can look at their details.
Posted on 5/7/23 at 6:43 pm to frogtown
quote:Its the equivalent of a 5th grader running for class president promising “no more homework!”.
I have seen "zero" about Trump getting rid of income taxes. He wants to get use tariffs to get rid of payroll taxes.
Have a look around you.. how many things at you purchase are made domestically? almost none. Now imagine all of them costing 30% more—overnight.
I know the fantasy is “well if there is a terrific those manufacturing jobs will come back. But unless you’re talking a 300% tariff, it will still be cheaper to manufacture overseas. So at best it just gets passed o to the consumer.
This post was edited on 5/7/23 at 6:46 pm
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