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re: Four Demorcat tax changes with grave consequences
Posted on 9/10/20 at 12:46 pm to David_DJS
Posted on 9/10/20 at 12:46 pm to David_DJS
quote:
And by the way, nobody (certainly not me) is arguing the utlra-wealthy pay no taxes. I'm asking (what to me is an obvious) question - how much do they actually pay?
How do they pay back the loan? I understand borrowing for cheap against investment holdings but ultimately they have to pay back the loan at some point. Any taxing would occur during the payback period. It is a way to draw out your liquidation but you still need to have $ to payback. I assume on a margin call you are still on the hook for the taxes (never actually had a margin call).
1
Posted on 9/10/20 at 12:46 pm to David_DJS
That's incorrect. I didn't take more than 2 seconds to entertain your question. Got me dude you're a legend 
WTF are you talking about? Did I say I was an expert? You're unhinged I won't answer a question I don't care about? lol
quote:
You're afraid to show us your taxation expertise and give us a back of the envelope estimate of how much the richest man in the world has paid in taxes on his fortune.
WTF are you talking about? Did I say I was an expert? You're unhinged I won't answer a question I don't care about? lol
Posted on 9/10/20 at 12:49 pm to David_DJS
quote:
And by the way, nobody (certainly not me) is arguing the utlra-wealthy pay no taxes. I'm asking (what to me is an obvious) question - how much do they actually pay?
There is a good bit of data on effective tax rates by income ranges. It does not single out the Ultra NW individuals but basically every bracket of income pays a higher effective tax rate on average than the income bracket below. This is basically average data but of course every year is different and every individual is different. Someone worth $1B may pay $0 in taxes if they had a net loss on the year but that principal of money that was used to claim the loss had taxes paid on it in prior years.
Posted on 9/10/20 at 12:51 pm to Janky
quote:
Who gives a frick? If they use their wealth by liquidating then they pay the same rate as you and me. Why are you so concerned about other people?
1. It's not clear they ever do that. That's the point of the question. Can someone explain how/when they ever pay these taxes everybody says they do?
2. For me, I never really gave a shite. To each his own, if you can frick over the government on taxes, so be it. But then these assholes (Bezos, Gates, Zuckerberg, the Google guys, Jack what's his name with Twitter, all the corporate boardrooms, NBA, Lebron James, etc.) started fricking with your life and mine. The COVID bullshite, BLM, Antifa, all the wacko liberal DAs, the highly partisan and activist media - now I say take these fricker's money away. If you're not content to just be rich and need to assume power over everybody's life, time to take your money away, and now I care that you avoid paying taxes on your fortune.
Posted on 9/10/20 at 12:53 pm to David_DJS
quote:
So what's your rough estimate?
The more you call me names and argue things you cannot possibly know, the more it's clear which one of us is a child.
The $250B is pretty easy to arrive at. Bezos (what he holds and his ex) has 15% of Amazon. Amazon's market cap is about $1.65 trillion. I'm sure you can do the math from there.
So again, what's your rough estimate on what Bezos has paid on his $250 billion fortune?
The fact that you are even asking this question demonstrates how out of your element you are.
Posted on 9/10/20 at 12:54 pm to David_DJS
quote:
You're afraid to show us your taxation expertise and give us a back of the envelope estimate of how much the richest man in the world has paid in taxes on his fortune.
This is a very ignorant statement, in my non-expert opinion. There are some very knowledgeable tax professionals on this site who I would bet cannot do that with the little information that is public. You know very well it isn't about how much money you have in the bank or how many shares of AMZN he owns.
It seems like your whole premise is pushing a wealth tax. Of course we should be taxed when we make money, when we spend money, when we sleep under a roof, etc. and on top of that lets be taxed just for having some money in a bank account. Also if your wealth went down, would you be in favor of getting refunded what you already paid in the wealth tax?
Posted on 9/10/20 at 12:54 pm to bod312
quote:
How do they pay back the loan? I understand borrowing for cheap against investment holdings but ultimately they have to pay back the loan at some point. Any taxing would occur during the payback period. It is a way to draw out your liquidation but you still need to have $ to payback. I assume on a margin call you are still on the hook for the taxes (never actually had a margin call).
Like I said, I'm not arguing they pay no tax. But relative to their wealth, what do they pay?
Bill Gates famously said in 2019 that he had paid the most income taxes of an individual in history - it was $10 billion. Now consider what Gates has, what his charity has, and all the wealth that's passed through his portfolio the last 30 years - is it $200 billion? $300 billion?
And he's paid $10 billion in taxes (according to him).
Posted on 9/10/20 at 12:54 pm to David_DJS
quote:
Seriously, back of the envelope - what has Bezos paid in federal taxes on his $250 billion fortune?
This is one of the dumbest gotcha attempt I’ve seen on this board.
I bet Jeff Bezos pays over 50% in income taxes because he lives in California.
Is that $250 billion his income? Then he’s not taxed on it.
How is this any different than if you started let’s say a lawn mowing business and over the course of 30 years that business grew and was valued at $2,500,000?
Is that business owner taxed on the market value of his ownership of the business? No. He’s taxed on his income he draws from that business. Would you be ok with taxing that business owner who owns a $2,500,000 valued business? Hopefully you are intellectually honest and say yes.
Posted on 9/10/20 at 12:55 pm to David_DJS
quote:
1. It's not clear they ever do that.
...and?
If you are given a share of AMZN and never sell it then you would be treated just like Bezos.
Posted on 9/10/20 at 12:56 pm to Jorts R Us
quote:
The fact that you are even asking this question demonstrates how out of your element you are.
I'll add you to the list of guys telling me they know more than I do by not answering my question.
That's a compelling argument, for sure.
Posted on 9/10/20 at 12:57 pm to David_DJS
quote:
taxes Bezos has paid on his $250 billion fortune.
I'm no tax expert, but I'm pretty sure it's because we tax income and not wealth. I would venture a guess most of his wealth is not actual income, but wealth on paper.
Posted on 9/10/20 at 12:58 pm to David_DJS
quote:
I'll add you to the list of guys telling me they know more than I do by not answering my question.
That's a compelling argument, for sure.
I guaran-fricking-tee you I know more about tax than you can string together.
Posted on 9/10/20 at 12:59 pm to TheGuitarMan1
quote:
1 depends on the level. As long as small businesses don't get killed by the law, I am fine with Estate tax in general. We need revenue and I have no problem taking some from wealth that has been passed down for generations with the new generations doing little for society - living off their ancestors. Yes, DEMs usually way over do it.
Dumbest shite I've ever seen. ALL of that money has already been taxed.
You're a thief. Nothing more.
Posted on 9/10/20 at 1:02 pm to Jorts R Us
quote:
I guaran-fricking-tee you I know more about tax than you can string together.
Of course you do. And maybe you do? Nobody can say because rather than bringing some knowledge to the thread, all you're doing is lining up to bitch and moan about a f'n question asked about how Bezos fortune is ever taxed.
Seriously, if someone knows how/when it's taxed, I'm all ears. Unlike most of you, I have an open mind.
Posted on 9/10/20 at 1:03 pm to Rex Feral
would these changes have to go thru congress? if so then conversation just died like any thing that our bullshite congress has to vote on.
Posted on 9/10/20 at 1:04 pm to David_DJS
quote:
But relative to their wealth, what do they pay?
IT. DOES. NOT. MATTER. No one pays taxes relative to their wealth. They pay taxes based on taxable income in any given year. And no one should be privy to what anyone else pays in taxes except that person's accountant (who I'm assuming has some sort of liability), the IRS, and the income earner himself.
Posted on 9/10/20 at 1:04 pm to NoHoTiger
quote:
I'm no tax expert, but I'm pretty sure it's because we tax income and not wealth. I would venture a guess most of his wealth is not actual income, but wealth on paper.
I think this is right. And I'm asking (or making the point if nobody can explain otherwise) if Bezos ever pays taxes consistent with his vast wealth. Seems to me he doesn't, but maybe one of the guys that are jumping up and down about how ignorant I am for asking the question can pause the arm-waving and explain it for us all.
Posted on 9/10/20 at 1:04 pm to David_DJS
quote:
Of course you do. And maybe you do? Nobody can say because rather than bringing some knowledge to the thread, all you're doing is lining up to bitch and moan about a f'n question asked about how Bezos fortune is ever taxed. Seriously, if someone knows how/when it's taxed, I'm all ears. Unlike most of you, I have an open mind.
You are asking people to compute tax on estimated wealth, not income. There's not really much more to say, man.
Posted on 9/10/20 at 1:06 pm to David_DJS
quote:
Bezos ever pays taxes consistent with his vast wealth
Oh for fricks sake. I am convinced you are a troll.
Posted on 9/10/20 at 1:07 pm to David_DJS
None. We don’t tax unrealized gain. How and when do you fix a time to value that gain other than sale date or death?
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