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Started By
Message
re: Montanans just legalized murder/infanticide
Posted on 11/10/22 at 10:53 am to WaWaWeeWa
Posted on 11/10/22 at 10:53 am to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
Should you be able to abort a pregnancy at any point because it is inconvenient to the mother?
Point out how it is legal to do this with this bill failing to pass.
0
Posted on 11/10/22 at 10:58 am to AggieHank86
quote:
1. No.
Why?
It’s relevant because I believe the results of the voting are at least partially motivated by the underlying reasons women seek abortions.
Posted on 11/10/22 at 11:00 am to WaWaWeeWa
quote:No, it is not. And I told you that I was not getting into this discussion.
It’s relevant
Posted on 11/10/22 at 11:00 am to LNCHBOX
quote:
Do you believe parents should have the right to take their child off of life support or should it be the government who makes the decision?
Didn't need to, but did it anyway.
My point still stands and you are a hypocrite.
Posted on 11/10/22 at 11:05 am to IAmNERD
Evil will always exist. It doesn’t mean we have to stand for it.
Posted on 11/10/22 at 11:08 am to Fun Bunch
Effective propaganda would be putting up billboards nationwide with "Over 63 million Americans genocided since 1973." People need to see the numbers for themselves.
Posted on 11/10/22 at 11:16 am to Abraham H Parnassis
quote:
This ghastly law being passed
What do you think is "being passed?"
Posted on 11/10/22 at 11:33 am to AggieHank86
quote:
No, it is not. And I told you that I was not getting into this discussion.
Hmmm I wonder why
You are suspect
Posted on 11/10/22 at 11:41 am to WaWaWeeWa
quote:Because it has been done 100 times, and I do not find you adequately interesting to do it again.
I told you that I was not getting into this discussion.quote:
Hmmm I wonder why
Posted on 11/10/22 at 5:24 pm to mahdragonz
quote:
Do you believe parents should have the right to take their child off of life support or should it be the government who makes the decision?
This is a hilarious analogy to me because the reason a person is on life support to start with is because somebody was trying to save their life. Life support, support life?
Posted on 11/11/22 at 8:09 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:I misspoke. That's on me. I suppose technically speaking it was a referendum, but the fact remains that the electorate is not free from criticism simply because they don't understand something or a the ballot is worded poorly.
What do you think is "being passed?"
Posted on 11/11/22 at 8:15 am to Fun Bunch
So is it legit or not
This post was edited on 11/11/22 at 8:16 am
Posted on 11/11/22 at 8:25 am to Fun Bunch
I don't think you can legalize murder.
Also, once that kid is out, he/she is vested will all of natural rights.
Also, once that kid is out, he/she is vested will all of natural rights.
Posted on 11/11/22 at 8:31 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
They had a vote on whether a baby born alive, ostensibly following a (failed?) abortion, needed to be given life saving care.
It wasn't specific to a failed abortion, an exceedingly rare case, but more impactful to premature births and babies born with severe defects, clearly a more common occurrence. Montana was also unique relative to other born alive bills in that it mandated care and provided fines and prison. The medical community objected for the following reasons:
quote:
Members of the medical community opposed the amendment saying it represents government overreach in decisions made between a patient and provider. They say in instances where a baby is born early or with fetal anomalies, doctors will be forced to perform painful and unnecessary procedures that will keep the family from spending the final moments with their infant.
LINK
Additional color:
quote:
3. What does the initiative have to do with abortion?
Regier’s bill says the purpose of the referendum is to protect infants who have survived abortions from being denied medical care and being left to die.
The measure’s passage would move the Family Research Council’s classification of Montana’s “born-alive” protections from “weak” to “strong” compared with the rest of the nation, according to Connor Semelsberger, director of federal affairs for life and human dignity for the nonprofit organization, which advocates for anti-abortion measures.
Montana is not among the nine states that require health providers to report when an infant is born alive during an abortion. The Family Research Council lists the states that do as Arkansas, Arizona, Florida, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Ohio, Oklahoma, and Texas.
Instances of fetuses surviving abortions are very rare. In Minnesota, which the Family Research Council points to as having the strongest protections in the U.S., five of the 10,136 abortions performed in 2021 resulted in a live birth, according to a state health department report. None of the five survived.
The number of abortions in which a fetus could survive is small, too: The point at which a fetus can survive outside the womb is generally considered to be after 22 weeks of pregnancy, and about 1% of all abortions in the U.S. happen at or after 21 weeks.
The leaders of two Montana clinics that provide abortions said the initiative’s passage would not affect their operations, as Montana law restricts performing abortions after a fetus is viable. The law does not define viability.
Nicole Smith, executive director of Blue Mountain Clinic in Missoula, said her clinic provides dilation-and-evacuation abortions that would not result in a live birth. “We do not provide obstetric or labor-and-delivery care,” she said, adding that she would refer a patient who needed that kind of care to someone who specializes in high-risk pregnancies.
Helen Weems, director of All Families Healthcare in Whitefish, said her clinic does not perform abortions after 12 weeks. LR-131 “is designed to look like an anti-abortion measure, but it has no relevance” to her clinic, she said. “There would never be an occasion in my practice where there would be an infant born alive,” Weems said.
4. If clinics that provide abortions won’t be affected, who will?
The initiative also covers any natural birth, induced labor, or cesarean section.
That could present obstetricians and gynecologists with an ethical dilemma of having to choose between their obligation to provide the best available medical care to their patients or the potential of facing legal penalties, according to a position paper by the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists opposing the Montana measure.
The organization said LR-131 could require an aggressive course of treatment in extremely complex and often tragic medical situations. It opposes the measure as government interference in the patient-physician relationship that would impose additional trauma on families.
Smith said the initiative would apply to miscarriages and to hospital deliveries in cases when parents know their child won’t live but want to complete the birth for a chance to hold the baby and say goodbye.
Opponents of the ballot initiative use the example of an early labor and delivery at 20 weeks. They say that rather than allowing the family to hold, say goodbye to, or baptize the baby before it dies, the measure would require health care workers to remove it in an attempt to save its life.
A study of nearly 5,000 infants born before 27 weeks of gestation found that all 129 infants who were born before 22 weeks and were included in the study died. Two received active medical treatment. Of those born in the 22nd week, 5% survived. Most of the 24 hospitals in the study provided treatment to all infants born at 25 or 26 weeks. Those born at week 26 had an overall survival rate of about 81%, and 59% survived without moderate or severe impairment.
LINK
This post was edited on 11/11/22 at 8:32 am
Posted on 11/11/22 at 8:36 am to Fun Bunch
My body my choice was always stupid and didn’t make sense.
Once again the left proves their word salads are nonsense and they don’t even stand by it.
Because it’s non sense.
Once again the left proves their word salads are nonsense and they don’t even stand by it.
Because it’s non sense.
This post was edited on 11/11/22 at 8:37 am
Posted on 11/11/22 at 8:38 am to cwill
quote:
Members of the medical community opposed the amendment saying it represents government overreach in decisions made between a patient and provider.
Vaccines?
where were they on this?
You are part of a death cult.
This post was edited on 11/11/22 at 8:40 am
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