- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Winter Olympics
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Police don’t have a racism problem, they have an authoritarian...
Posted on 6/10/20 at 9:44 am to crewdepoo
Posted on 6/10/20 at 9:44 am to crewdepoo
quote:
I think what the OP is saying is what BLM is saying. The structure is what’s wrong
And they're both wrong.
If everyone stopped trying to be a fricking victim or a wanna be gangster and just treat LE with a little respect a ton of shite would be a lot better. Yes there are dirtbag LEOs. People are looking for their 15 minutes of fame and a quick paycheck.
0
Posted on 6/10/20 at 9:46 am to Jimbeaux
quote:
My point is that it is a utopian pipe dream to think that we can eliminate all police corruption.
WE CAN’T VERY WELL BURN DOWN OUR GOD DAMN CITIES EVERY TIME A BAD COP DOES SOME BAD shite.
Correct. I don't think anyone expects 100% perfect performance from Police officers. That's unrealistic for all of the reasons people have already posted.
What people want is restored faith in the system, such that when something like this does happen, they at least give justice a chance.
Good example: The Rodney King riots. Everyone was peaceful until after the trial. They didn't start rioting until the police were acquitted. Contrast that with today. People have lost faith in the system.
Posted on 6/10/20 at 9:49 am to crewdepoo
quote:
I think what the OP is saying is what BLM is saying. The structure is what’s wrong, not that we have a bunch of racist cops.
Well, I like that the conversation is at least starting to turn away from the utter fringe of ridiculousness towards something we can actually have a discussion about.
And yet, I must point out that BLM said no such thing! Ha! I know it’s not exactly a logically cohesive movement, but they sure as heck DID claim that it is all about racism.
And when you say “the structure is what’s wrong”, that’s just word salad. Be specific or you’re only creating more confusion.
Posted on 6/10/20 at 9:52 am to Jimbeaux
quote:your facts are bs if you think the op is even a tiny bit wrong. commons sense trumps whatever you think your facts are.
but the facts just don’t bear it out.
Posted on 6/10/20 at 10:03 am to Midget Death Squad
Since we're going in on police reform, the judicial system can use some reforming too.
Why are so many violent criminals released with slaps on the wrist so they can end up back on the streets to commit more violent crimes? We have guys spending more time in jail because they got busted with crack for a 3rd time than someone who committed an armed robbery or was a felon in possession of a gun. Where's the logic in that?
And something needs to be done about these far left DA's who openly say they'll refuse to prosecute certain crimes, like thefts under X dollar value. Just emboldens the criminals since they know if they do get caught by the police, they'll get released without consequences when the DA refuses to accept the charges.
Why are so many violent criminals released with slaps on the wrist so they can end up back on the streets to commit more violent crimes? We have guys spending more time in jail because they got busted with crack for a 3rd time than someone who committed an armed robbery or was a felon in possession of a gun. Where's the logic in that?
And something needs to be done about these far left DA's who openly say they'll refuse to prosecute certain crimes, like thefts under X dollar value. Just emboldens the criminals since they know if they do get caught by the police, they'll get released without consequences when the DA refuses to accept the charges.
Posted on 6/10/20 at 10:09 am to CptRusty
quote:
If they were accountable for their actions the same way that every other person is, then you'd see a lot of this go away very very quickly.
I really hate this equivalence. Other people do not have the burdens that police do. Their job is literally to get in harm's way. They have an affirmative duty to confront people who may or may not be violent. So they are far more likely to end up in a fatal confrontation because of the nature of their job.
Comparing them to a jogger or some other non-cop is both insulting and ignorant.
And yes I am always in favor of increased transparency and accountability, but when was the last time most of you had a body camera on while you did your job. Unless you are a Youtube star or a professional athlete probably never.
So yes, hold police accountable, but using the same standard as an "innocent bystander" just ignores the reality of the situation.
Posted on 6/10/20 at 10:21 am to arcalades
quote:
your facts are bs if you think the op is even a tiny bit wrong. commons sense trumps whatever you think your facts are.
Not even a tiny bit wrong, eh?
Alright, I re-read the OP post and I agree with you to a point. From an outsider’s perspective, I suppose the OP makes some sense. The Devil is in the details.
Yes, there is an inherent danger in the fact that law enforcement officers wield so much power. It’s hard to know how to mitigate against that.
We ask them to do a very difficult job which involves knowing and understanding chapters of legal code, with legal nuance that most lawyers still debate; make split second decisions that could mean life or death for themselves and others; and to do all of their work within view of the public for open scrutiny knowing that any mistake could cost them their job, land them in jail, or cause a world-wide race riot. We ask them to do all of that dispassionately and without bias, all while they may receive as much verbal or physical harassment imaginable.
So, they walk a fine line of establishing a commanding police presence so they can do their job effectively and safely for all involved without coming across too authoritarian, and the reality is that most people just don’t have what it takes to do the job very well.
Police departments try to train their recruits up; try to get them seasoned so they can handle this difficult job, and many don’t last. Attrition is atrocious. Pay is poor. The hours are long and it’s shift work. And did I mention that it’s extremely stressful and dangerous?
So, what’s that solution the OP came up with? Frequent psychological evaluations? Yep. That’s gonna fix the problem.
Posted on 6/10/20 at 10:21 am to BigJim
quote:
I really hate this equivalence.
You can hate it all you want, but until Police are held accountable when they break the law, you can just get used to riots and looting.
We're past the tipping point. The time for benefit of the doubt and self-regulation is over. We will either see a massive change in Police oversight or the riots will occur with increasing frequency.
Posted on 6/10/20 at 10:22 am to Midget Death Squad
quote:
The problem is that there is a shortage of cops, so departments have to rush unqualified people through training and get out onto the streets in order to maintain any semblance of manpower.
Couple this with quotas to offset discrimination complaints, and you often get people who shouldn't be allowed to buy a gun are out policing the streets.
Posted on 6/10/20 at 10:35 am to CptRusty
quote:
You can hate it all you want, but until Police are held accountable when they break the law, you can just get used to riots and looting.
What makes you think that on the whole, police aren’t being held accountable?
I’ll put it another way:
Why wasn’t the Derrick Chauvin arrest a moment of solemn resolve that while we mourn the loss of the victim in this tragedy, we recognize the progress that has been made in the fact that police misconduct is no longer swept under the rug and justice is being served equally to police as to non-law enforcement citizens alike.
That SHOULD have been the story.
This post was edited on 6/10/20 at 10:41 am
Posted on 6/10/20 at 10:36 am to DeltaDoc
What about the people that don't respect their authority? That is the problem.
Posted on 6/10/20 at 10:36 am to DeltaDoc
Make the police unions illegal, solve all of the problems.
Posted on 6/10/20 at 10:40 am to CptRusty
quote:
The whole thing boils down to accountability.
We all know that the Police are a brotherhood and will protect their own, and this sentiment extends up the food chain to the courts, judges, politicians, etc.
If they were accountable for their actions the same way that every other person is, then you'd see a lot of this go away very very quickly.
Yep....want the department to police the police....start having lawsuits hit the retirement fund, that shite will end with a quickness. The qualified immunity and union have hurt many departments.
But let's be clear....there isn't some rash of police violence. There is not some huge contingent of bad cops.
For a long time I thought there was and that the departments were getting worse....they aren't. The stats say the opposite. But there are things we can do better starting with the following after you get rid of qualified immunity
1) end no knock seat/military style raids for anything other than hostage or terrorist situations. Puts to many police at risk. They are going into a house trusting the info put on the paper and told to them is correct and too many times it's not. These started with the drug war to make sure they caught the subject red handed. That's fricking stupid. Find another way.
2) end dangerous high speed chases. Let the helicopters follow the person, it's not worth risking innocent civilians life's for getting the bad guy. frick that, I'll flip my shite if my kid was killed chasing someone like that.
3) legalize weed on the federal level. fricking stupid we lock people up for a damn plant.
4) stop the ticket quota system, get back to beat cops and community policing
5) police are not allowed to break traffic laws unless they are in route and lights must be on. This needs to be strictly enforced.
Back to the original point....the police need de-escalation training. Also need to stop this idea that if a petty criminal gets away it's the end of the world. Sorry but you don't need to turn the city upside down trying to catch a guy that stole a $2 candy bar or any property crime in general. Call in air support or if in a small town, clear the roads and setup a simple blockade if air support isn't available. Even if they get away....they will do some dumb shite again.
Now to reiterate...we really don't have a huge policing problem....we have a lack of people taking responsibility and being held accountable problem on both sides, especially in the black community.
Posted on 6/10/20 at 10:43 am to Jimbeaux
quote:
Lots of people like to say shite like this but the facts just don’t bear it out.
Are there bad apples? Yes.
Has police corruption improved tremendously over the past few decades? Yes, absolutely, and it’s provable .
Is anyone actually looking at the facts? Hell naw!
Are the exceedingly rare instances a-hole cops (and even some distorted cases ie. Michael Brown in Ferguson) being used for political purposes and everyone is shitting the bed over it? Absolutely
Have you watched videos during the protests? They are indicative of police attitudes and actions.
The too often use much more force than is needed. I saw them beat a woman with batons that they could have easily put in cuffs. I saw them knock a protester to the ground from the hood of the cop car and then get pounded on by 14 cops after when they could have easily taken him off of the hood and put him in custody. I saw two officers go to pound town on a guy that would not do what they said or mouthed off to them when they could have easily arrested him.
Police should use the minimum force required to apprehend and put someone in custody. That may mean more force at times, up to and including lethal force, but not every case requires much force at all. Then once in custody, they should not lay a finger on them to exact revenge or to teach them a lesson. In fact, they should be responsible for the well being of a suspect in custody.
I am not saying it is not better than it was in the past. However, the past should not be our standard. We should set the standard at what is right and acceptable behavior for police officers. Police are given guns and the authority to take our liberty. Those are needed and they should have those, but with that much power, we should expect much restraint from them as well.
Posted on 6/10/20 at 10:45 am to Aeschylus
(no message)
This post was edited on 9/25/20 at 1:54 am
Posted on 6/10/20 at 10:45 am to novabill
quote:
Have you watched videos during the protests?
Those are snapshots in time; I'll bet you anything you haven't seen the whole story or what prompted any exchange between LE and protestors.
Posted on 6/10/20 at 10:49 am to Gtmodawg
quote:
provide them with very little training and what training we do provide is poor quality.
Do you have more information on the training provided?
Posted on 6/10/20 at 10:49 am to Tiger Prawn
quote:
Why are so many violent criminals released with slaps on the wrist so they can end up back on the streets to commit more violent crimes? We have guys spending more time in jail because they got busted with crack for a 3rd time than someone who committed an armed robbery
I agree 100% with you here. You can think Joe Biden for that shite.
quote:
was a felon in possession of a gun. Where's the logic in that?
Disagree 100% here. If a person is deemed to be eligible to be out of jail then they are deemed to no longer be a treat to society and deemed to have paid their penance for their crimes. If that is the case, all rights should be restored. They are either a treat or they are not.
quote:
And something needs to be done about these far left DA's who openly say they'll refuse to prosecute certain crimes, like thefts under X dollar value. Just emboldens the criminals since they know if they do get caught by the police, they'll get released without consequences when the DA refuses to accept the charges.
I agree. The DAs job is to prosecute, not determine the law. But going overboard and not following the constitution is bullshite too.
Posted on 6/10/20 at 10:52 am to Jimbeaux
quote:
Why wasn’t the Derrick Chauvin arrest a moment of solemn resolve that while we mourn the loss of the victim in this tragedy,
Maybe because it didn't occur until after a few riots?
Right or wrong, the perception is that nothing was going to happen without the video going viral and people protesting in the streets. I think we can agree that would be a massive problem if it were the case.
Posted on 6/10/20 at 10:53 am to Presidio
quote:
(1) Remove qualified immunity
(2) Reduce the power of police unions
(3) Greatly reduce the number of laws, especially those that are geared toward generating revenue for police departments
I'd also make it not permissible to pull people over for bullshite.
Your 3rd brake light being out shouldn't warrant a traffic stop.
Page 2 of 3
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News