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re: Should churches be taxed?
Posted on 5/16/23 at 9:18 am to JiminyCricket
Posted on 5/16/23 at 9:18 am to JiminyCricket
Some pretty amazing takes in here
Empower government and expand taxation and put an increased target on the back of the organizations that do the large bulk of the actual charity work in this country, all because some secularists have decided that Joel Osteen represents the average church.
It's time to talk about the problem of the secularist libertarian/republican
Empower government and expand taxation and put an increased target on the back of the organizations that do the large bulk of the actual charity work in this country, all because some secularists have decided that Joel Osteen represents the average church.
It's time to talk about the problem of the secularist libertarian/republican
2
Posted on 5/16/23 at 9:19 am to Indefatigable
quote:
For some reason people insist that my position is based in some vindictive hatred of religion. It’s not.
I didn't go back and read all 10 pages of thread admittedly and I wasn't necessarily singling you out. I'm just saying, in general terms, taxing all churches would make the megas the last man standing and give our corrupt and bloated government the ability to seize small church properties. I don't like either of those results personally.
Posted on 5/16/23 at 9:19 am to AggieHank86
there are a couple property tax benefits/exemptions every property owner over the age of 65 in the state of texas.
tax payment amount is fixed at the age of 65 for the rest of life ownership regardless of appraisal value.
tax payments can be held against estate settlement rather the annual payment
you probably think this is charity also
tax payment amount is fixed at the age of 65 for the rest of life ownership regardless of appraisal value.
tax payments can be held against estate settlement rather the annual payment
you probably think this is charity also
Posted on 5/16/23 at 9:21 am to Pettifogger
quote:
Empower government and expand taxation and put an increased target on the back of the organizations that do the large bulk of the actual charity work in this country, all because some secularists have decided that Joel Osteen represents the average church.
You’re missing the point and that’s why you feel as if churches are being attack or whatever.
It’s not about religion. It’s about property ownership and said ownership being taxed across the board (if the tax is going to exist). Regardless of who or what owns the property. That doesn’t apply to just churches—it applies to all currently exempt privately owned property. At least my opinion does.
Posted on 5/16/23 at 9:21 am to Pettifogger
quote:
Empower government and expand taxation and put an increased target on the back of the organizations that do the large bulk of the actual charity work in this country, all because some secularists have decided that Joel Osteen represents the average church.
100%. Imagine a small church of 40-60 people that has been on a property for 50 years. Imagine that property has become of high value in the last decade or so for whatever reason. They get a massive property tax bill that 40-60 people can't possibly tithe enough to pay. Now do that across all 50 states.
Posted on 5/16/23 at 9:23 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
as long as taxes exist (they should be eliminated
how do you pay your navy to keep the western world safe from the ccp.
Frigging missile destroyers go for $4 billion each now.
I would eliminate income tax on companies.
not little llcs that are really just 3 guys and a secretary.
no tax on auto parts companies o and g, big ag.
no tax.
I would not allow companies to own single family house.
they are wrecking the middle class dream buying up entire new subdivisions to rent out.
and no foreign owner of housing of any kinds from apartment buildings to one room studio condo in venice by the beach. none
This post was edited on 5/16/23 at 9:29 am
Posted on 5/16/23 at 9:23 am to Indefatigable
quote:
It’s not about religion. It’s about property ownership and said ownership being taxed across the board (if the tax is going to exist). Regardless of who or what owns the property. That doesn’t apply to just churches—it applies to all currently exempt privately owned property. At least my opinion does.
You're comparing apples and oranges though. You're lumping for profit and non profit together into the same boat and they're fundamentally different.
Posted on 5/16/23 at 9:24 am to JiminyCricket
quote:
Imagine a small church of 40-60 people that has been on a property for 50 years. Imagine that property has become of high value in the last decade or so for whatever reason. They get a massive property tax bill that 40-60 people can't possibly tithe enough to pay. Now do that across all 50 states.
Individuals, families, small businesses, and any number of other entities already experience this. Tax burden is not some issue that only churches experience.
Small businesses and lower income families have been absolutely decimated by property taxes these last few years too.
Posted on 5/16/23 at 9:25 am to JiminyCricket
quote:
You're lumping for profit and non profit together into the same boat and they're fundamentally different.
No they are not. They own the land.
Any distinction based on their income status when it comes to property ownership is a creation of the government—which is what I am opposing.
Posted on 5/16/23 at 9:25 am to Indefatigable
quote:
Small businesses and lower income families have been absolutely decimated by property taxes these last few years too.
And the argument is to expand this strategy?
This post was edited on 5/16/23 at 9:26 am
Posted on 5/16/23 at 9:26 am to JiminyCricket
quote:
And the argument is to expand this strategy?
No, it is to apply taxes equally, or not at all.
Posted on 5/16/23 at 9:26 am to Indefatigable
quote:
No they are not. They own the land.
Okay you're being obtuse at this point. If you can't or won't see that the rules governing how for profit and non profits generate income and handle financials is different, then idk what to tell you.
Posted on 5/16/23 at 9:27 am to JiminyCricket
quote:
If you can't or won't see that the rules governing how for profit and non profits generate income and handle financials is different, then idk what to tell you.
I agree that the rules are different. I oppose them being different.
Posted on 5/16/23 at 9:27 am to Indefatigable
quote:
I agree that the rules are different. I oppose them being different.
Then what's the point of being a non-profit? What's the point of having them at all?
Posted on 5/16/23 at 9:30 am to JiminyCricket
quote:
taxing all churches would make the megas the last man standing and give our corrupt and bloated government the ability to seize small church properties. I don't like either of those results personally.
Yep, leaving only those weakening and/or using people of faith to enrich themselves, but who does that serve but those who are enemies of religion, and would love to supplant it with government as the sole authority on what is right and moral in their eyes only. There are so many false teachers and charlatans out there, and most have very large congregations because they are telling them what they want to hear rather than what is really in scripture. That is exactly who will be left standing and true followers who take up their cross and follow Christ relegated to smaller cash strapped churches or meeting in homes, which I’m actually not at all against to be honest, but that’s where this would head in my estimation as well.
Posted on 5/16/23 at 9:31 am to fareplay
quote:
Should churches be taxed?
Why would you tax donations from people that were already taxed? Dumb arse.
Posted on 5/16/23 at 9:32 am to TCO
Lolz
I don’t give a shite what you want.
I don’t give a shite what you want.
Posted on 5/16/23 at 9:33 am to Indefatigable
quote:
It’s not about religion. It’s about property ownership and said ownership being taxed across the board (if the tax is going to exist). Regardless of who or what owns the property. That doesn’t apply to just churches—it applies to all currently exempt privately owned property. At least my opinion does.
Why?
Why should property ownership/investment be treated any differently than other investment vehicles for non-profits?
Ultimately, the large percentage of people, regardless of political persuasion, who advocate for further entanglement of churches and taxation are secularists. I'm simply pointing out that Christian conservatives (and people of other faiths) need to realize that at some point we will become at odds with them and the allied nature of those relationships are limited.
Posted on 5/16/23 at 9:34 am to AggieHank86
quote:Property taxes are based on the benefits principle, namely that your taxes go directly towards local government services that benefit you.
Property tax exemption is essentially a government subsidy
Exemptions for non-profits are essentially meant to be a trade-off: the societal benefits that non-profits bring are the "tax" that local governments accept in lieu of monetary property taxes.
Posted on 5/16/23 at 9:35 am to Indefatigable
quote:The counter-argument is that these organizations are performing (charitable) services that would otherwise fall to the government, and (in most cases) doing so more-efficiently than the government would be able to provide the same services. The property tax exemption is essentially an offset for money that the government would otherwise be spending o on the same services. Some would argue that it is a good investment, and I would agree (as to those organizations which do not abuse the exemption).
No, it is to apply taxes equally, or not at all.
The problem is NOT the organizations that pay no property tax on a small sanctuary and fellowship hall from which they feed the poor every night. The problem is the organizations that are not paying property taxes on solid gold candlesticks, $5 million dollar "parsonages," private jets or multi-million dollar salaries.
Maybe the solution is not to REMOVE the exemptions, but rather the CAP them?
EDIT: Foo and I were typing something similar, simultaneously.
This post was edited on 5/16/23 at 9:45 am
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