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re: So let me get this straight...
Posted on 9/28/19 at 5:32 pm to texridder
Posted on 9/28/19 at 5:32 pm to texridder
Wow. At risk by not heeding the demands of the EU and IMF was visa-free access to EU countries, as well as $4.4 billion in EU and IMF aid to Ukraine. Pretty serious consequences alright.
But am I understanding this correctly, the primary concern was with Shokin's 4 allotted nominees of an 11 member panel tasked with the job of selecting an independent prosecutor who would him or herself be tasked with rooting out corruption? Shokin had authority to nominate 4, the other 7 being nominated by a separate entity?
So all this aid and the visa aspect was at risk over displeasure with Shokin's minority nominees numbering 4 of the 11 member panel?
That seems just a touch unconvincing.
But am I understanding this correctly, the primary concern was with Shokin's 4 allotted nominees of an 11 member panel tasked with the job of selecting an independent prosecutor who would him or herself be tasked with rooting out corruption? Shokin had authority to nominate 4, the other 7 being nominated by a separate entity?
So all this aid and the visa aspect was at risk over displeasure with Shokin's minority nominees numbering 4 of the 11 member panel?
That seems just a touch unconvincing.
1
Posted on 9/28/19 at 5:33 pm to SCLibertarian
quote:
In fact the EU and the IMF both threatened to withhold aid from Ukraine if they didn't fire Shokin.
quote:
If the roles were reversed and Donald Trump did what Biden did, you'd call for his impeachment and his son's immediate arrest.
Your problem is that you don't know what Biden did or didn't do.
Do you have anything to refute the fact that the EU and IMF were both calling for Shokin to be fired and threatening to withholds aid from Ukraine if he wasn't removed?
If that was the case, does that have any effect on your assessment of what Biden did?
Posted on 9/28/19 at 5:38 pm to deathvalleytiger10
quote:
A former vice-president sets up his son to make millions of dollars and prevents a foreign country from investigating him yet someone who wants him investigated gets impeached?
Posted on 9/28/19 at 5:43 pm to davyjones
quote:
Wow. At risk by not heeding the demands of the EU and IMF was visa-free access to EU countries, as well as $4.4 billion in EU and IMF aid to Ukraine. Pretty serious consequences alright.
But am I understanding this correctly,
Nope, you don't.
Did you gloss over what the vote was for? The vote was to replace Shokin as the primary prosecutor of corruption in Ukraine.
Do you think that just may have been the most relevant fact to draw from the article?
Posted on 9/28/19 at 5:48 pm to crewdepoo
quote:
1. Biden wasn’t there when the investigation started.
If true, then why is the left so worried about having the proper authorities investigate?
That's all Trump asked for. He didn't ask for "dirt". Just an investigation.
Posted on 9/28/19 at 6:11 pm to Rebel
quote:
If true, then why is the left so worried about having the proper authorities investigate?
That's all Trump asked for. He didn't ask for "dirt". Just an investigation.
Maybe they're worried that Ukraine just might think that Trump wants $400 million worth of dirt.
Posted on 9/28/19 at 6:38 pm to texridder
How did I fail to get it correct? I don't see any mention of Shokin being "replaced" on anything. Where is there even any mention of him being relieved of any power whatsoever? Independent prosecutor is what was at issue.
And again, how did his minority 4 nominees warrant the $4.4 billion aid and visa aspect threat?
There was more to the story.
And again, how did his minority 4 nominees warrant the $4.4 billion aid and visa aspect threat?
There was more to the story.
Posted on 9/28/19 at 6:43 pm to texridder
That you assholes work so hard to justify Hunter Biden says a lot.
doesn't matter what scum does when daddy has that D behind his name does it?
Justifying anything about that entire situation is ludicrous on the face of it. Leftists are corrupt and have no moral compass whatsoever.
doesn't matter what scum does when daddy has that D behind his name does it?
Justifying anything about that entire situation is ludicrous on the face of it. Leftists are corrupt and have no moral compass whatsoever.
Posted on 9/28/19 at 6:50 pm to davyjones
quote:
How did I fail to get it correct? I don't see any mention of Shokin being "replaced" on anything. Where is there even any mention of him being relieved of any power whatsoever? Independent prosecutor is what was at issue.
And again, how did his minority 4 nominees warrant the $4.4 billion aid and visa aspect threat?
You're useless. The issue was corruption in Ukraine.
From the article: In return, Ukraine would implement a series of anti-corruption reforms. At the top of the list is the nomination of a new independent prosecutor tasked with bringing down corrupt government officials.
He was being replaced as the primary
Posted on 9/28/19 at 6:59 pm to davyjones
quote:
How did I fail to get it correct? I don't see any mention of Shokin being "replaced" on anything. Where is there even any mention of him being relieved of any power whatsoever? Independent prosecutor is what was at issue.
And again, how did his minority 4 nominees warrant the $4.4 billion aid and visa aspect threat?
Try taking off your blinders.
The issue was corruption in Ukraine.
From the article:
quote:
in exchange for implementing graft-fighting measures, the European Union would eliminate visa requirements for Ukraine’s 46 million citizens. In return, Ukraine would implement a series of anti-corruption reforms. At the top of the list is the nomination of a new independent prosecutor tasked with bringing down corrupt government officials.
quote:
Ukrainians stand to pay a high price for Poroshenko’s focus on self-preservation. According to Kaleniuk, Poroshenko’s support for Shokin not only jeopardizes visa-free access to the EU, but risks costing Ukraine $4.4 billion in desperately needed financial assistance—$1.2 billion from the EU and $3.2 billion from the International Monetary Fund.
Posted on 9/28/19 at 7:14 pm to texridder
quote:
Maybe they're worried that Ukraine just might think that Trump wants $400 million worth of dirt.
Okay, so now that it’s all out in the open and there’s no CHANCE of that let’s figure out what really went down, no? Why you so afraid of that?
Posted on 9/28/19 at 7:28 pm to gthog61
quote:
Justifying anything about that entire situation is ludicrous on the face of it. Leftists are corrupt and have no moral compass whatsoever.
Why don't you lay out what you think the cicumstances were in Ukraine?
Were BOTH the EU and the IMF threatening to pull aid from Ukraine if they didn't get rid of Shokin -- before Biden went to Kiev and gave Ukraine the ultimatum?
Was the investigation of Burisma active when Biden issued the ultimatum?
Did the prior investigation of Burisma involve any of the period of time that Hunter Biden was on its Board of Directors or have anything to do with him?
Maybe your understanding of the circumstances, helps explain your take that "the entire situation is ludicrous on the face of it."
Posted on 9/28/19 at 7:32 pm to texridder
Did Shokin testify in European court that he was pressured to drop the Burisma case prior to his termination?
Did he also testify that he was fired specifically for investigating Biden's kid?
Did he also testify that he was fired specifically for investigating Biden's kid?
Posted on 9/28/19 at 7:41 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
so now that it’s all out in the open
What's all out if the open???
Do we have all of the phone calls between Trump and Zelensky?
Do we have any of the notes and correspondence about why the $400 million of aid to Ukraine that had been appropriated by Congress was held up for more than 2 months?
Do we have the any of the notes from Giuliani's secret meeting with Zelensky's chief of staff in Spain?
Do we have any of the emails/correspondence to and from Giuliani about the meeting in Spain -- both before and after the meeting?
Give me a break.
Posted on 9/28/19 at 7:51 pm to texridder
No, the issue I raised is the curious imbalance between EU/IMF threatening to withhold such a substantial amount in aid (as you stated a page back replying to another poster)....and EU/IMF suggested justification being mere dissatisfaction with Shokin's 4 appointees (as laid out in the article you provided), those 4 appointees composing a clear minority within the 11 member panel.
A very curious imbalance. To which, again, I assert there must be more to it with the EU/IMF dislike of Shokin. Their displeasure with Shokin's 4 person minority doesn't exactly scream extreme corruption, much less corruption enough to withhold 4.4B in aid and visa-free access. Curious imbalance.
A very curious imbalance. To which, again, I assert there must be more to it with the EU/IMF dislike of Shokin. Their displeasure with Shokin's 4 person minority doesn't exactly scream extreme corruption, much less corruption enough to withhold 4.4B in aid and visa-free access. Curious imbalance.
This post was edited on 9/28/19 at 7:54 pm
Posted on 9/28/19 at 7:56 pm to Vacherie Saint
quote:
Did Shokin testify in European court that he was pressured to drop the Burisma case prior to his termination?
Did Shokin's Deputy say that the investigation into Burisma was dormant for a year and a half?
quote:
Did he also testify that he was fired specifically for investigating Biden's kid?
Do you know that the time frame of the events of the investigation occurred in 2010-2012?
Do you know that Yuri Lutsenko, a former top Ukrainian prosecutor, told The Washington Post that Hunter Biden did not violate any laws while he was on the board of Ukrainian private gas company Burisma. “From the perspective of Ukrainian legislation, he did not violate anything,” Lutsenko told the Post in his first interview since news broke on Friday of a whistleblower complaint alleging President Trump pressured Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelensky, to investigate a family member of his political rival. “Hunter Biden cannot be responsible for violations of the management of Burisma that took place two years before his arrival,” Lutsenko told the Post.
Posted on 9/28/19 at 8:02 pm to texridder
Lutsenko was the guy who replaced Shokin! The US retained lawyers for Burisma scheduled a meeting to discuss Shokins replacement hours after the firing. This has all been documented.
Gtfo with this. Of course he says Biden did nothing wrong. That was his job, shill.
Gtfo with this. Of course he says Biden did nothing wrong. That was his job, shill.
Posted on 9/28/19 at 8:06 pm to davyjones
quote:
Their displeasure with Shokin's 4 person minority doesn't exactly scream extreme corruption,
This is the last time (the third time) I am going to post this because you are just going to completely ignore it again and talk idiocy about Shokin's 4 votes.
quote:
According to Kaleniuk, Poroshenko’s support for Shokin not only jeopardizes visa-free access to the EU, but risks costing Ukraine $4.4 billion in desperately needed financial assistance—$1.2 billion from the EU and $3.2 billion from the International Monetary Fund.
Posted on 9/28/19 at 8:12 pm to Vacherie Saint
quote:
Lutsenko was the guy who replaced Shokin! The US retained lawyers for Burisma scheduled a meeting to discuss Shokins replacement hours after the firing. This has all been documented.
Documented by who? Come on let's see it. Or, as you say, gtfo
Posted on 9/28/19 at 8:19 pm to texridder
quote:Read this dipshit. It’s the deposition given by Shokin.
texridder
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