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re: The next time a pro-abortion zealot denies that status, show them this.
Posted on 9/29/22 at 8:53 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
Posted on 9/29/22 at 8:53 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:Your desire to avoid it fails to invalidate it.
Then you shouldn't be in the dark about why it's a useless point.
Feel free to dodge some more. Maybe you’ll get better at it.
1
Posted on 9/29/22 at 8:56 pm to llfshoals
quote:
Your desire to avoid it fails to invalidate it.
Feel free to dodge some more.
Explain how asking you to expand on your point is avoiding or dodging it...
I think what you mean to say is that I'm dismissing it, which would be accurate, as I generally dismiss all useless points.
Posted on 9/29/22 at 8:57 pm to llfshoals
quote:Humans have evolved beyond the point of being non-sentient animals, ruled entirely by instinct and our mere material, biological needs.
When intercourse happens, what is the goal? An individual’s goal may be very different than the biological purpose for the act.
What is the biological “purpose” of eating? To provide fuel for the body, correct? We could survive on raw fruits/vegetables and seared animal flesh. Yet we prepare savory dishes that go far beyond that basic biological function, because eating a well-prepared meal is pleasurable.
What is the biological “purpose” of drinking? To provide hydration, correct? We could survive on lukewarm water. Yet we prepare delicious beverages (wines, juices, sodas) that go far beyond that basic biological function, because enjoying a 10-year-old merlot is pleasurable.
What is the biological “purpose” of sex? Production of offspring. Biologically, we should start and finish in 30 seconds and go back on alert for predators. Yet we can and do extend to hours of fun and engage in a host of sexual activities which are TOTALLY unnecessary for producing offspring, because closeness with another human and mind-blowing orgasms are pleasurable.
All are benefits of evolution into sentience.
When anti-abortion extremists give-up all but raw foods and lukewarm water, I will start listening to arguments that sex should be limited to reproduction.
This post was edited on 9/29/22 at 9:11 pm
Posted on 9/29/22 at 8:58 pm to Ag Zwin
At least they are now honest about their evil
Posted on 9/29/22 at 9:01 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:Easy.
Explain how asking you to expand on your point is avoiding or dodging it...
The point is apparently difficult for you to comprehend. A member of the species is a member of the species. A is A
You keep trying to expand this into the merits of an individual’s value. That “personhood” somehow enters into the equation.
You keep dodging the “where have we heard the term non-person” before? Why do you do so? Because you well know the moment you do, you see the direction your argument leads. Not a pretty picture is it?
Posted on 9/29/22 at 9:10 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
What is the biological “purpose” of sex? Production of offspring. Yet we can and do engage in a host of sexual activities which are TOTALLY unnecessary for producing offspring, because closeness with another human and mind-blowing orgasms are pleasurable.
I agree.
But in my opinion, a person shouldn’t reap(?) the benefits of sex if s/he isn’t willing (or able) to accept all possible/probable outcomes.
Simply not wanting conception to occur isn’t a rational consideration.
When I reached the age of physical maturity whereby I could conceive and incubate a child within my body, my gynecologist said to me (paraphrased): With sex, always expect pregnancy to occur. And when you become pregnant, be prepared for a child who has physical and/or cognitive disabilities. A healthy child is a blessing.
Harsh, but true. And I never forgot it.
Unfortunately, we live in an age where people choose not to recognize reality and be accountable for their actions. That’s not judgment, it’s fact.
Posted on 9/29/22 at 9:10 pm to llfshoals
quote:
The point is apparently difficult for you to comprehend.
Don't be boring.
I understand the point you're making. I can say potatoes are potatoes. So fricking what.
Make your point mean something.
Posted on 9/29/22 at 9:19 pm to EKG
quote:
But in my opinion, a person shouldn’t reap(?) the benefits of sex if s/he isn’t willing (or able) to accept all possible/probable outcomes.
Abortion is a possible outcome. Some folks just think it shouldn't be.
Posted on 9/29/22 at 9:20 pm to AggieHank86
quote:Excellent (cutting it a bit for length, not that I don’t truly appreciate the rest and the thought involved)
The benefits of evolution. When anti-abortion extremists give-up all but raw foods and lukewarm water, I will start listening to arguments that sex should be limited to reproduction.
I haven’t said sex should be limited to reproduction (though some do). While we have both evolved socially and intelligently, we seem to be projecting that these things override the basic biology. They do not (yet anyway).
I think getting back to the understanding of this, and the value of human life is a worthy goal. You can’t do it unless you recognize it IMO.
I get that there are what…8 billion now? So life is becoming cheap. It becomes especially easy not to value it because “they’re not like US”.
How do we fix this? I’d argue the answer is both simple and terrible. There’s a couple different ways to do it.
Kill the other tribes till one remains. I’d say that one will be the one that wins out.
The other is expanding (which we have almost abandoned) and take humanity to the stars. Ok I’m a bit of a dreamer to think that one has a chance I know.
Posted on 9/29/22 at 9:21 pm to Ag Zwin
quote:
The next time a pro-abortion zealot denies that status, show them this.
While disgusting, that doesn't represent all pro-choice individuals.
I'm pro-life btw. I just like ironmen, not strawmen.
Posted on 9/29/22 at 9:22 pm to EKG
quote:Willingness to accept the cost and physical effects of abortion is ALSO “taking responsibility” for one’s actions. It is just a form of “responsibility” that abortion opponents do not find acceptable.
we live in an age where people choose not to recognize reality and be accountable for their actions.
Posted on 9/29/22 at 9:23 pm to AggieHank86
That’s certainly an argument.
Posted on 9/29/22 at 9:23 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:Sorry you seem incapable of getting it, though you say you do.
Make your point mean something.
You keep looking for a way to twist it so it supports your belief. It doesn’t, it cannot.
Acceptance is difficult, but you should try it.
Posted on 9/29/22 at 9:24 pm to llfshoals
quote:Indeed. The benefit of being king of the hill.
While we have both evolved socially and intelligently, we seem to be projecting that these things override the basic biology.
I am off to bed. Nice to have a civil discussion here for a change. Have a good evening!
This post was edited on 9/29/22 at 9:29 pm
Posted on 9/29/22 at 9:26 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Abortion is a possible outcome. Some folks just think it shouldn't be.
Hmmm. I’ll have to think on that.
I was referring to natural outcomes, but it’s an interesting point for debate.
I’d give you my opinions on the sanctity of life, but I doubt that would resonate with you.
Good stuff.
Posted on 9/29/22 at 9:27 pm to llfshoals
quote:
Sorry you seem incapable of getting it, though you say you do.
You keep looking for a way to twist it so it supports your belief. It doesn’t, it cannot.
Acceptance is difficult, but you should try it.
Sigh...
How am I twisting anything? You can expand on your own point any way you see fit.
Posted on 9/29/22 at 9:28 pm to EKG
quote:
I’d give you my opinions on the sanctity of life, but I doubt that would resonate with you.
If it's a religious viewpoint, unlikely. If it isn't, it could make for interesting discussion.
Posted on 9/29/22 at 9:29 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
Nice to have a civil discussion here for a change.
Mostly civil.
Posted on 9/29/22 at 9:31 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
Willingness to accept the cost and physical effects of abortion is ALSO “taking responsibility” for one’s actions.
How many pro-choice individuals are against taxpayer-funded abortions? It takes some very impressive mental gymnastics to suggest the effort exerted to avoid responsibility is actually accepting responsibility...
"I really had to do a lot of things to cover up the fact that I hit that pedestrian. And the mental toll of it all... I think I took a few years off my life worrying about everything. *Sigh* I certainly accepted responsibility..."
This post was edited on 9/29/22 at 9:36 pm
Posted on 9/29/22 at 9:37 pm to AggieHank86
quote:Does it though?
Willingness to accept the cost and physical effects of abortion is ALSO “taking responsibility” for one’s actions. It is just a form of “responsibility” that abortion opponents do not find acceptable.
Today it’s taught (for the most part) that an abortion is no more important than a kidney stone. Less really.
Do you really think it should be so?
I don’t, I’ve got two kids that are the most precious things in my universe. I cannot imagine a decision that removes them from that universe for no reason other than it might make my life a bit easier.
It should be a heart rending decision IMO. Because a child dies from that decision or it doesn’t. Distilled down to one thing, that’s it.
I think you’d probably find people who disagree can find ground which suits them both. Which is why I absolutely love the Supreme Court’s decision to throw it back to the states.
You and I could sit down and hash out ground we could both live with. Not perfect, but we could live with it. Let the states do the same.
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