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Posted on 6/25/25 at 1:00 pm to Broadside Bob
quote:
Therefore, your god?
There is no reality without God. No understanding, no free will, all of these things are only possible in a physical universe because of God. God is the beginning and the end of reality.
What you fail to grasp is that God is beyond our universe/creation. Looking for God in the creation is like trying to find Leonardo in the Mona Lisa. You can only see the work.
I am a programmer. I can literally create my own universe to play video games and do whatever I want in them. In fact, I do. I am in no way a part of that universe. And that universe doesn't become reality until - a conscious person views it.
And that is what we do. When we play video games, we purposely limit ourselves to the physics and rules of that world and put our consciousness into that world so that we can have the experience. That experience is only possible when consciousness enters it, and while inside it, we are bound to those rules. Without either, the experience can not exist.
Or as Jesus would say, that which is spirit is spirit and that which is flesh is flesh. AKA, that which is the physical is the physical, and that which is consciousness/soul/spirit is separate.
Your reality is the same thing, just part of the limitation is that you aren't aware of anything else. Again, a requirement for the experience. You can never enter a birds body and know what it is to be a bird, you'd be a man in a birds body.
The path itself is a real thing, hinted slightly at by science with the multiverse type theory, but I doubt people are ready for that.
This post was edited on 6/25/25 at 1:02 pm
Posted on 6/25/25 at 1:01 pm to BuckI
quote:
Jesus has the keys to heaven. I fail sometimes, but more from ignorance than anything else. My biggest struggle at the moment is over money. Not the lack of, but how I use it. I'm not rich, but I try to save, but at the same time, I wonder if I should give more to those who need it.
Sorry for the short ramble. I can get a little off topic.
We all have our struggles brother. As far as the money issue, I think from analyzing what Jesus had to say on the issue, God is more interested in your heart than your wallet. It just so happens that he pointed to people's belongings because he knew that was where their heart was. If you feel led to give more to the needy, do it. Generosity is a fruit of the spirit. If you're already tithing though and you are generous with what you have, I wouldn't sweat it too much.
Posted on 6/25/25 at 1:01 pm to Schleynole
So everything must follow the laws of physics, except this one thing that I say exists outside those laws. Got it.
Posted on 6/25/25 at 1:03 pm to SEC. 593
quote:
So everything must follow the laws of physics, except this one thing that I say exists outside those laws. Got it.
I mean, it is a logical assumption. The universe and time had a beginning. Time could not have created itself because when would it have happened? Something outside of time had to have created time thus making the creator an eternal being. And if that creator is an eternal being, outside of creation and time, while also having the immense power to create creation, certainly he would not be then bound by the laws used to govern the creation that he created.
This post was edited on 6/25/25 at 1:05 pm
Posted on 6/25/25 at 1:06 pm to SEC. 593
quote:
So everything must follow the laws of physics, except this one thing that I say exists outside those laws. Got it.
Is this any different than how a video game works?
Do you know that in a game like World of Warcraft, the admins can be anywhere in that world completely invisible to you? Like a spirit/ghost.
They can bypass the rules and laws of the game all they want. They can manifest a character on command, complete with any equipment or abilities they want - available to the player or not.
When you think about it, you might could even give them a name like I dunno - the watchers.
But yeah, crazy idea even though quantum physics kind of shows the physical universe only renders when consciousness is able to view it...exactly like a simulation/video game.
This post was edited on 6/25/25 at 1:07 pm
Posted on 6/25/25 at 1:08 pm to Royalfishing
quote:
I will go with Pascal’s Wager.
Pascal's Wager attempts to create a false dichotomy: Either you believe in God or you don't. What you're really saying is, either you believe in MY god or you don't.
What if the Atheist and the Christian are both wrong? What if the Muslims are right, and Allah is p!@#ed? Or the Hindus, or the Taoists, or the Buddhists? All of the above are equally certain of their beliefs as you are of yours.
Throughout history, there have been hundreds, thousands of gods. The atheist only believes in one less god, or set of gods, than you do.
This post was edited on 6/25/25 at 1:25 pm
Posted on 6/25/25 at 1:12 pm to 3down10
quote:
quote:
Therefore, your god?
There is no reality without God. No understanding, no free will, all of these things are only possible in a physical universe because of God. God is the beginning and the end of reality.
What you fail to grasp is that God is beyond our universe/creation. Looking for God in the creation is like trying to find Leonardo in the Mona Lisa. You can only see the work.
I am a programmer. I can literally create my own universe to play video games and do whatever I want in them. In fact, I do. I am in no way a part of that universe. And that universe doesn't become reality until - a conscious person views it.
And that is what we do. When we play video games, we purposely limit ourselves to the physics and rules of that world and put our consciousness into that world so that we can have the experience. That experience is only possible when consciousness enters it, and while inside it, we are bound to those rules. Without either, the experience can not exist.
Or as Jesus would say, that which is spirit is spirit and that which is flesh is flesh. AKA, that which is the physical is the physical, and that which is consciousness/soul/spirit is separate.
Your reality is the same thing, just part of the limitation is that you aren't aware of anything else. Again, a requirement for the experience. You can never enter a birds body and know what it is to be a bird, you'd be a man in a birds body.
The path itself is a real thing, hinted slightly at by science with the multiverse type theory, but I doubt people are ready for that.
My question is how can you be so certain that it's YOUR god?
Posted on 6/25/25 at 1:19 pm to Broadside Bob
quote:
What if the Atheist and the Christian are both wrong? What if the Muslims are right, and Allah is p!@#ed? Or the Hindus, or the Taoists, or the Buddhists? All of the above are equally certain of their beliefs as you are of yours.
Throughout history, there have been hundreds, thousands of gods. The atheist only believes in one less god, or set of gods, than you do.
This is why I encourage people to dig into what they believe and why. Do an audit on your belief system.
Posted on 6/25/25 at 1:20 pm to Broadside Bob
quote:
My question is how can you be so certain that it's YOUR god?
The same way you find certainty of anything. Cross reference what different belief systems adhere to. Look into historical data. Consider even the circumstantial evidence. You gather all the evidence and consider it in totality and decide if the evidence is compelling enough to be beyond reasonable doubt.
This post was edited on 6/25/25 at 1:22 pm
Posted on 6/25/25 at 1:21 pm to BuckI
quote:
Jesus has the keys to heaven. I fail sometimes, but more from ignorance than anything else. My biggest struggle at the moment is over money. Not the lack of, but how I use it. I'm not rich, but I try to save, but at the same time, I wonder if I should give more to those who need it.
Sorry for the short ramble. I can get a little off topic.
Jesus is more than an idol, he represents the light, truth and the way. There is no idol that holds such keys, it's following the the things he represents that does.
The path is a real thing, and if you follow in his example you will walk it.
This is the problem with Christianity. So many people worship the sign instead of following it's direction.
It's like God comes to earth and puts a sign that says "Heaven -> 50 miles". Some people get upset, so they remove the sign, but people remember anyway. But instead of following the directions, they put a shovel around their necks and talk about how great the sign is and what great things it will do for them.
The sign will save me, the sign will save me. The sign has all the answers, it has the key!
It will if you actually follow it. Talking about how pretty and great the sign is will never get you to the destination.
This post was edited on 6/25/25 at 1:23 pm
Posted on 6/25/25 at 1:22 pm to theCrusher
quote:That's a good book and was one of many that started my journey from agnosticism to Atheism and now to Orthodox Christianity.
There was a great book written in the mid 2000s called "Darwin's Black Box: The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution"
I got in a late night debate on the OT once with a fellow who swore up and down a dolphin fossil was the predecessor to modern day canines. No, it was a dolphin. There's exactly zero fossil strata that shows it went from dolphin to canine, nor any other species.
Irreducible complexity and entropy are very real, measurable things.
It doesn't take one with half a brain and logic to quickly realize atheism is nonsense. It was a religion unto itself, and in educating myself on the matter, I settled back on agnosticism until Grace was clearly shown to me.
Romans 1:19-25 pretty clearly and effectively explains why atheists can be so militant in their beliefs. The immortal God is written on every man's heart from the beginning of time. It's a 6th sense, and to deny it is unnatural, exhausting, and takes effort far beyond giving in and simply recognizing it, and to be clear, I said simply, "recognizing" it, not worshipping it. In the process of carrying out that belief system, God willingly and lovingly will give us over to our foolishness, but when wisdom is given up, so too is the luxury of a quiet, confident spirit.
Posted on 6/25/25 at 1:24 pm to 3down10
I mean, either Jesus is who he said he was or he isn't. If he isn't, he's a massive liar but if he is, he's not the sign, he's the road itself. The goal of Christianity is not to get to heaven anyway. That's but a piece of the result of our faith. The goal of Christianity is to come back into right relationship with God. Heaven isn't the prize, God himself is. I'll take Jesus at his word.
This post was edited on 6/25/25 at 1:26 pm
Posted on 6/25/25 at 1:25 pm to Padme
quote:
They don’t want to be held accountable for their sexual sins, therefore they go the whole denial track even though it’s the opposite of intellectual. Yet part of being in denial, they tell themselves and try to present themselves as intellectual
Stupidest take I’ve ever heard. You don’t know any atheists clearly. They do not give a shite. They just think an invisible man in the sky who loves you so much that he’ll send you to hell if you don’t kiss his arse 24/7 is a stupid concept, because it is.
I’ve met many, many, many promiscuous Christians. Corrupt ones, unfaithful ones, broken ones, dishonest ones, etc.
If you’re from New Orleans like I am, you’ve met them too.
Most Christians say they love Jesus because they think it will get them into this mythical paradise one day. They were brought up as children being taught if they don’t kiss God’s arse they will suffer eternal damnation. Gee, I wonder what a 6 year old is going to say to that, because they’re naive enough to believe that’s true.
Most Christians are like that. They don’t love Jesus. They don’t read the Bible. They don’t live morally. They just want to party in the afterlife in case there is one.
This post was edited on 6/25/25 at 1:44 pm
Posted on 6/25/25 at 1:27 pm to TN Tygah
quote:
Stupidest take I’ve ever heard. You don’t know any atheists clearly. They do not give a shite. They just think an invisible man in the sky who loves you so much that he’ll send you to hell if you don’t kiss his arse 24/7 is a stupid concept, because it is.
I’ve met many, many, many promiscuous Christians. Corrupt ones, unfaithful ones, broken ones, dishonest ones, etc.
If you’re from New Orleans like I am, you’ve met them too.
Most Christians I say they love Jesus because they think it will get them into this mythical paradise one day. They were brought up as children being taught if they don’t kiss God’s arse they will suffer eternal damnation. Gee, I wonder what a 6 year old is going to say to that, because they’re naive enough to believe that’s true.
Most Christians are like that. They don’t love Jesus. They don’t read the Bible. They don’t live morally. They just want to party in the afterlife in case there is one.
I don't agree with alot you put here, but I do agree if people are only Christians for hell insurance, they're missing the point.
Posted on 6/25/25 at 1:28 pm to Broadside Bob
quote:
My question is how can you be so certain that it's YOUR god?
Knowledge of the holy is understanding.
Posted on 6/25/25 at 1:36 pm to JiminyCricket
quote:
quote:
My question is how can you be so certain that it's YOUR god?
The same way you find certainty of anything. Cross reference what different belief systems adhere to. Look into historical data. Consider even the circumstantial evidence. You gather all the evidence and consider it in totality and decide if the evidence is compelling enough to be beyond reasonable doubt.
The world is 31% Christian which means that 69% of the rest of the population of the world has a "reasonable doubt" about Christianity. Batting .310 is pretty good for a Major League ball player, but is it really that good for an ever-present, all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-loving god?
About 26% of the world population is Muslim, and Islam is expected to overtake Christianity as the leading religion in the world around the year 2070. Muslims are just as certain of their beliefs as Christians are of theirs, some arguably more so...I haven't heard of many Christians of late who were willing to blow themselves up or fly planes into buildings for Jesus (I'm not advocating for any of that, just making a point about belief and certainty).
Posted on 6/25/25 at 1:40 pm to 3down10
quote:
quote:
My question is how can you be so certain that it's YOUR god?
Knowledge of the holy is understanding.
Wouldn't a Muslim, Hinduist, or Buddhist say the same thing (or something very similar) about THEIR faith?
Posted on 6/25/25 at 1:48 pm to JiminyCricket
quote:
I mean, either Jesus is who he said he was or he isn't. If he isn't, he's a massive liar but if he is, he's not the sign, he's the road itself. The goal of Christianity is not to get to heaven anyway. That's but a piece of the result of our faith. The goal of Christianity is to come back into right relationship with God. Heaven isn't the prize, God himself is. I'll take Jesus at his word.
I'm not a man of faith, I am a man of understanding.
Jesus can be a completely fictional character and it doesn't change the fact that the character is an actual representation of someone who knows our father, has the father in him, and speaks the truth. It is a true expression, without a doubt. I can see the father in him. He knows the father/son relationship, he has understanding.
Do you have understanding of math? If I tell you 1+1=2, do you believe me as an authority, or do you believe me because you understand math and our common expression of it? If I tell you 1+1=3, you also know because of your understanding that it is a false statement. And no man will be able to convince you otherwise because it will always go against your understanding.
It is understanding the real church is built on. Which is like a rock that no man can tear down. And if you have that understanding, you will recognize all expressions of it. You will know 2+2=4, 8+2=10 and that 4+3=10 is wrong.
Thus, it's not a matter of faith at all. Faith as you put it is merely that you hope the 1+1=2 expression you've accepted is true. And yet, what use is that for any man if they lack the understanding? They'll just as soon believe 3+3=2 or any other thing. Which is why people want to limit you to only the acceptation of the expression, the idol, without you ever being anything more than that of faith.
Or you can just have a naturally good heart. Some people are blessed like that.
But more than anything, try and at least care. That's a start. Maybe you don't make it today, but if you ask and try you can.
Heaven is more about what level of reality you are. Think simulations within simulations. We are in fact removed from the garden and a society without evil, and the only way back is to follow the commandments after learning good and evil. Because the very presence of someone who doesn't follow the commandments will destroy that society. Thus the reason for the removal in the first place. This was one of the very first things that I was made to understand.
Posted on 6/25/25 at 1:49 pm to 3down10
I'll reply to both here since you both basically had the same argument.
Expanding on your thought exercises, both of the assumptions are that there exists outside our universe another universe where "something" can be created out of nothing, and it is just in our universe where that is impossible.
Isn't this just the Speacial Pleading fallacy to the Kalam cosmological argument summed up?
Expanding on your thought exercises, both of the assumptions are that there exists outside our universe another universe where "something" can be created out of nothing, and it is just in our universe where that is impossible.
Isn't this just the Speacial Pleading fallacy to the Kalam cosmological argument summed up?
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