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re: When did minimum wage become living wage?
Posted on 6/7/17 at 9:19 am to DawgsLife
Posted on 6/7/17 at 9:19 am to DawgsLife
quote:
How is it not?
To correctly call something a subsidy/"corporate welfare", it'd need to increase labor supply. I would see welfare as doing the exact opposite
ETA: IMO one could argue that EITC is to some extent "corporate welfare" though
This post was edited on 6/7/17 at 9:21 am
2
Posted on 6/7/17 at 9:21 am to jimbeam
"living wage" is like "climate change". It's an ambiguous term defined subjectively by the proponent. Presumably, if you have enough money for food, clean water, and maybe shelter, then you are earning a "living wage" (i.e. enough to sustain life).
Of course, in America the proponents of a "living wage" will tell you that means enough to have as much food as you like along with all the modern luxuries such as appliances, television, a vehicle, cell phone, internet.
All it really is is enough money to live comfortably while also engaging in the least amount of work possible to "earn" that money.
Of course, in America the proponents of a "living wage" will tell you that means enough to have as much food as you like along with all the modern luxuries such as appliances, television, a vehicle, cell phone, internet.
All it really is is enough money to live comfortably while also engaging in the least amount of work possible to "earn" that money.
This post was edited on 6/7/17 at 9:22 am
Posted on 6/7/17 at 9:22 am to 90proofprofessional
quote:
How's that a subsidy for "lower wages"?
Are you fricking serious?
This isn't that difficult
$7.25 X 2080 hours = $15,080 a year . And this assumes that a person works every single available hour to them. No unpaid time off.
The poverty threshold for a SINGLE person in 201y is $12060. Means tested welfare allows a person to earn 140% of that and qualify for welfare. That means a single person could earn $16,884 and still qualify for welfare. That means the government itself is actually saying a single person would have to make $8.11 an hour just not to qualify for welfare. And that is not considering any dependents.
Now , since the entire minimum wage construct is an entirely made up number anyway, shouldn't that made up number be oh I don't know AT LEAST HIGH ENOUGH TO KEEP A frickING EMPLOYEE OFF THE WELFARE ROLLS?
Posted on 6/7/17 at 9:23 am to jimbeam
People who can't keep even a part time job, will work a low skilled brain dead job until they decide not to show up one day, and who hop from one minimum wage job to another decided that they deserve a wage that will support a house, car, health insurance, annual vacations, retirement, and all the idevices their heart desires.
Disagree with that notion? Think minimum wage fast food jobs are not meant to be lifelong careers? Think it is suspicious that somebody can't get a single raise or promotion above minimum wage for their entire career and that it likely means it is a problem of their own making? Well then, WHY DO YOU HATE THE POOR, BIGOT?
Disagree with that notion? Think minimum wage fast food jobs are not meant to be lifelong careers? Think it is suspicious that somebody can't get a single raise or promotion above minimum wage for their entire career and that it likely means it is a problem of their own making? Well then, WHY DO YOU HATE THE POOR, BIGOT?
This post was edited on 6/7/17 at 9:24 am
Posted on 6/7/17 at 9:25 am to jimbeam
Yea I love it when people say, "you try living on minimum wage as a single parent with 3 kids."
What the hell is your dumb arse doing having three kids when you only qualify for a minimum wage job!?! Do you know what percentage of hourly employees only make minimum wage? It's insanely low. Stop being a dumb arse and having kids you can't afford.
What the hell is your dumb arse doing having three kids when you only qualify for a minimum wage job!?! Do you know what percentage of hourly employees only make minimum wage? It's insanely low. Stop being a dumb arse and having kids you can't afford.
Posted on 6/7/17 at 9:26 am to 90proofprofessional
quote:
To correctly call something a subsidy/"corporate welfare", it'd need to increase labor supply. I would see welfare as doing the exact opposite
It's a subsidy because take welfare out of the picture and companies would HAVE to pay more to get employees. They would have to.
With welfare a lot of people are perfectly fine making $8 an hour . That's the truth. Take that welfare away though and they wouldn't be.
Posted on 6/7/17 at 9:27 am to TitleistProV1X
quote:
ea I love it when people say, "you try living on minimum wage as a single parent with 3 kids."
What the hell is your dumb arse doing having three kids when you only qualify for a minimum wage job!?! Do you know what percentage of hourly employees only make minimum wage? It's insanely low. Stop being a dumb arse and having kids you can't afford.
Yes, that's a completely different argument and I have no sympathy for stupid people.
Posted on 6/7/17 at 9:27 am to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
quote:
The poverty threshold for a SINGLE person in 201y is $12060. Means tested welfare allows a person to earn 140% of that and qualify for welfare. That means a single person could earn $16,884 and still qualify for welfare. That means the government itself is actually saying a single person would have to make $8.11 an hour just not to qualify for welfare. And that is not considering any dependents.
Now , since the entire minimum wage construct is an entirely made up number anyway, shouldn't that made up number be oh I don't know AT LEAST HIGH ENOUGH TO KEEP A frickING EMPLOYEE OFF THE WELFARE ROLLS?
This completely fails to explain how it is a subsidy for lower wages.
Posted on 6/7/17 at 9:28 am to jimbeam
quote:1933.
When did minimum wage become living wage?
quote:
No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.
President Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Posted on 6/7/17 at 9:28 am to Damone
quote:
When did minimum wage become living wage?
quote:
When you could buy a new car for $5k and a new house for $45k. So, before Baby Boomers fricked everyone that came after them.
You people and your baby boomer hatred.
It isn't the boomers who fricked us.
It is the Silent Generation.
Those born between 1925 and 1945.
They held the majorities in congress from the mid 70s until 1995 when boomers came to power.
On your 5k and 45k part of your post, consider the following.
Average car price 1979 was $5,770
Average House price 1979 was 58,000
Minimum wage was 2.90
By the time Boomers took over Congress in 1995...
Average House price was 132k
Average Car price was 21k
Minimum wage was 4.25
Posted on 6/7/17 at 9:29 am to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
quote:
quote:
why should its all-time high (in real terms) be used as a baseline? what makes that value more appropriate than any other time?
I didn't use it as a baseline actually. I clearly said the min wage should be around $10.50 an hour which is a full dollar an hour less than what it was in 1968 (which by the way wasn't the "all time high" that would be 1965)
But the point stands, if you look at the data the minimum wage kept its relative spending power from the 50-s until roughly the mid 80s and then it slowly starting falling behind inflation every year until now.
That is inarguable. And now raising it is actually counterproductive. We are , in effect, subsidizing lower wages with welfare.
Why would we do that? It's corporate welfare to the nth degree. fricking McDonalds even got caught a few years back having a video that taught its employees how to figure out which welfare programs they qualified for and how to get signed up. That's pretty fricking pathetic when a company has a CEO making tens of millions of dollars and is spending who knows how much more encouraging its employees to sign up for welfare.
It isn't corporate welfare at all. You're looking at it wrong.
If a natural wage floor is in real dollars at, say, $7/hour, then all a minimum wage does at $10/hour is eliminate jobs. It doesn't raise the standard of living for those below it.
There's a good reason why 90% of economists left, right, and center oppose a minimum wage.
Posted on 6/7/17 at 9:29 am to jimbeam
I had a full time job with an insurance company in the early 70's where I made $1.75/hr. The job I had just before that one paid $50 a week after deductions. The cost of living was different then though.
Posted on 6/7/17 at 9:29 am to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
quote:
It's a subsidy because take welfare out of the picture and companies would HAVE to pay more to get employees.
Exactly wrong. Welfare that is conditional on nothing but income makes the decision NOT to work, or to work less, less painful.
Posted on 6/7/17 at 9:30 am to Homesick Tiger
quote:
This baby boomer at age 15 made eighty cents an hour for 10 hrs. work six days a week. This baby boomer was smart enough to realize that is not what I wanted to do the rest of my life. So, I go to college, while working other jobs, to find something better than chicken feed paying jobs that I know will not get me ahead in life. No, I never graduated but I latched on to a good job that enabled me to retire at age 60.
Not sure how the boomers are responsible for all your ill will towards us.
How much did college cost for you old-timer? Which generation is directly responsible for the skyrocketing cost of higher ed and the trend towards needing a ludicrously expensive and far less useful degree for even moderately gainful employment if not for you boomer clowns?
Posted on 6/7/17 at 9:31 am to jimbeam
quote:
When did minimum wage become living wage?
When the progs said it was.
Posted on 6/7/17 at 9:37 am to 90proofprofessional
quote:
This completely fails to explain how it is a subsidy for lower wages.
Let's play a game.
Let's say we changed the laws in this country to the following
A) welfare was a straight up cash payment of $10K a year, but only those who didn't work at qualified
B) the minimum wage was abolished. Though this one will become irrelevant
C)No more EIC
Now, what happens to wages for "minimum wage jobs" at this point? Why the demand for those jobs goes down of course, because who would work a full time ob to collect $12K in wages when they could instead just sit at home and collect $10K? The answer is very few people, which means without the subsidy of welfare for their lower aid employees companies would HAVE to offer higher wages to attract employees.
Of course, you could be an a-hole and get rid of both welfare and the minimum wage and let the free market play out, but as we've seen in thread after thread we are not a true free market society, because that tends to not work out for the poor so well.
Posted on 6/7/17 at 9:39 am to TitleistProV1X
What I don't get is how anyone could be stuck long with a minimum wage job. If you just show up to work somewhat regularly, not on drugs, and with just the faintest pulse, you're already beating out a lot of your peers and on your way to a raise or promotion. I remember being a lazy teenager in highscool and having peers who worked themselves up to manager positions at Pizza Hut by virtue of not being completely worthless. These are kids. If you are an adult and can't get above minimum wage after working 2-3 years, it is you. Are there that many people who haven't been in the job market long enough to know this?
Posted on 6/7/17 at 9:39 am to jimbeam
we due need a slight raise in the min wage. not $15 an hour. I have people that i work with who start at 32k a year with a college degree. there is no way the min wage should be $15 an hour. Also the fact that you can draw govt asst. and still have a full time min wage job is mind blowing to me. Mcdonalds and govt assistants should not be a career path.
Posted on 6/7/17 at 9:41 am to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
quote:
but only those who didn't work at qualified
what is the point of this "game"? is it to find some conditions that are not present reality, but if they were, they might make your prior claims true?
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