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Posted on 5/22/21 at 8:11 pm to OleWar
quote:your statement makes it sound like you are clueless.
Modern American Christians who have no grasp of history or Church Tradition and then given a large amount of propaganda paid for by Israel directly to their ministers, to also mobilize them to support Republicans in the 1980s.
Posted on 5/22/21 at 8:28 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Basically you're saying that atheists don't have to be logically consistent with their worldviews
I’m not really sure where you got this from.
This post was edited on 5/22/21 at 8:34 pm
Posted on 5/22/21 at 8:32 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
I'm not rejecting entire disciplines just because I reject certain conclusions or interpretations of the evidence.
You’re rejecting evidence because it’s inconvenient to your beliefs. This is a weaker argument than agnostics who doubt the existence of God.
Posted on 5/22/21 at 8:48 pm to southdowns84
quote:I spent a great amount of time to explain where I got that from.
I’m not really sure where you got this from.
The worldview of the atheist cannot account for moral absolutes yet he was essentially saying that we have to pretend that moral absolutes exist to function in society. I said that's acting inconsistently with the worldview that is being espoused yet that would be a consistent application of the Christian worldview that can account for moral absolutes. This alone shows why the Christian worldview is to be preferred, because it comports to reality.
Posted on 5/22/21 at 8:49 pm to southdowns84
quote:It's interesting that you seem to not have read the short sentence that you quoted.
You’re rejecting evidence because it’s inconvenient to your beliefs. This is a weaker argument than agnostics who doubt the existence of God.
I am not rejecting evidence. "...I reject certain conclusions or interpretations of the evidence", as my quote said.
Posted on 5/22/21 at 9:02 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
I am not rejecting evidence. "...I reject certain conclusions or interpretations of the evidence", as my quote said.
You’re rejecting conclusions based more strongly in evidence than nearly every central religious belief you hold.
This is coming from a Christian, too.
Posted on 5/22/21 at 9:08 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
I'm not a deist that believes a god spun everything up and let it go on its own
How do you reconcile this with the concept of free will?
If you believe in free will, help me understand how humans are able to escape the chains of cause and effect controlling the chemical signals in our brains that produce thoughts?
This post was edited on 5/22/21 at 9:16 pm
Posted on 5/22/21 at 10:25 pm to southdowns84
quote:I trust the word of God more than the philosophies of men. Men can err while God cannot.
You’re rejecting conclusions based more strongly in evidence than nearly every central religious belief you hold.
quote:I’m very curious of your view of the Bible, its inerrancy, and inspiration, in particular.
This is coming from a Christian, too
Posted on 5/22/21 at 10:26 pm to Revelator
The Baptist’s have no authority over anything. Did they approve the Bible in 397? When was that church created? Baptist. Sola scriptura and sola fide have been debunked.
Posted on 5/22/21 at 10:30 pm to southdowns84
quote:I’m a Reformed Christian (covenantal Calvinist), therefore I don’t believe in free will. I believe in free volition, but we make decisions based on wills that aren’t free due to sin, at least before regeneration.
How do you reconcile this with the concept of free will?
If you believe in free will, help me understand how humans are able to escape the chains of cause and effect controlling the chemical signals in our brains that produce thoughts?
The only consistent Arminian is an Open Theist that believes God can’t know what will happen, but only the possibilities.
Posted on 5/22/21 at 10:34 pm to Fat Bastard
quote:There are more than Baptists that aren’t beholden to Rome.
The Baptist’s have no authority over anything. Did they approve the Bible in 397? When was that church created? Baptist. Sola scriptura and sola fide have been debunked.
And I don’t think you know what “debunked” means.
It’s also a shame that you seem to revel in the thought that God’s word is not the supreme authority, or that we can contribute towards our own salvation anything but the sin that makes it necessary.
Posted on 5/22/21 at 10:47 pm to FooManChoo
Is there a potential where God knows the outcome of man (as Mankind),but isn't individually interventionist? The way you could know how ant colonies function and advise further colonies? But ants being egotists, consume general information as explicit instruction?
Posted on 5/22/21 at 10:49 pm to 632627
quote:
There’s a reason why the term judeo-Christian exists, but Muslim-Christian does not.
Posted on 5/22/21 at 10:59 pm to WhatsInAName
quote:If God isn’t an interventionist then He communicated that aspect of His relationship to us very poorly. The Bible is full of examples of God intervening in the affairs of men, causing outcomes that He desires rather than sitting back passively and hoping that we do the right thing.
Is there a potential where God knows the outcome of man (as Mankind),but isn't individually interventionist? The way you could know how ant colonies function and advise further colonies? But ants being egotists, consume general information as explicit instruction?
God doesn’t force us to act against our wills. He uses our own desires to achieve what He wills. God is sovereign, not man.
Posted on 5/22/21 at 11:13 pm to FooManChoo
Israel should strive to crush Hamas terrorists.
Posted on 5/22/21 at 11:19 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Basically you're saying that atheists don't have to be logically consistent with their worldviews because we, as a society, must still live as if there is a universal moral imperative.
I mean, nobody HAS to have a logically consistent worldview. Most of us have at least a couple blind spots where the consistency of our logic comes into question. But I'm arguing that certain moral ideas within society are necessary for our society to exist as is, regardless of why that is the case. You just happen to believe they represent a universal objective morality ordained by a deity. There are other potential explanations for why this would be however. It could be a pure blind accident of evolutionary biology and still explain exactly what we see. You continuing to opine about this "stealing from a christian worldview" remains meaningless because these ideas aren't unique to christianity and in fact predate it by thousands of years, and because all you're doing is looking at reality as is and ascribing supernatural order to it. Your assumption that our moral realities could only exist if God exists is baseless.
So again, yes, under a consistent atheistic worldview there is no true universal and objective moral code. I agree many atheists are inconsistent when they argue otherwise. What you continue to fail to address however is WHY a universal moral code must exist to explain reality as we see it. Why is it that a reality governed entirely by subjective morality, where certain behaviors are selected for due to their predilection for generating successful societies with evolutionary advantages for our species, cannot exist? Such a society would be indistinguishable from our perspective from one governed by genuine universal morality, because the behaviors we label as moral and immoral would be programmed into our genetics.
This post was edited on 5/22/21 at 11:20 pm
Posted on 5/22/21 at 11:22 pm to Craig86
I only support Israel because Muslims are extremists who tend to create terrorist.
The religion is incompatible with western values.
The religion is incompatible with western values.
Posted on 5/22/21 at 11:26 pm to Texas Weazel
They tend to possess a unconscionable bloodlust that is just not a natural inclination of modern day Israelis. Quite frankly, it pretty much goes like this from Israel's perspective: don't kill me and I won't kill you. Seems pretty straightforward to me.
Posted on 5/23/21 at 6:55 am to OleWar
quote:
Modern American Christians who have no grasp of history or Church Tradition and then given a large amount of propaganda paid for by Israel directly to their ministers, to also mobilize them to support Republicans in the 1980s.
When you say,” church tradition” I assume you mean the Roman Catholic Church?
Since their traditions are ever changing and evolving to mirror society ( something real truth never does) how can it be followed?
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