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Started By
Message
re: Super League may NOT actually be happening!
Posted on 4/18/21 at 8:49 pm to DByrd2
Posted on 4/18/21 at 8:49 pm to DByrd2
quote:
I get that. But the market determines that. My argument has not once been that it is right for the game or people in general.
So when the market determines that it's the short term money grab that ruins infrastructure of the sport, hurting youth programs, hurting downtrodden communities that rally around their clubs, and the long term bottom line also shows how fricking dumb it was, then you will agree that it is the clearly greed and unethical thing that the rest of us see it as?
At the very least, you get that the Longhorn Network was a dumb greedy play that everyone else realized they shouldn't do, right? You clearly have some IB Chinaman stance on morality where chasing profit has zero implications and can't be immoral, so I won't get in to that, but the greed thing is clear, right?
1
Posted on 4/18/21 at 8:51 pm to DByrd2
quote:
I'll read that in a few. Actually now if you care to give me the title of the document.
You are really dim my man, or can’t follow an argument at all.
quote:
You can take that stance and still be of the mind that things should be worked out legally, and if UEFA and the clubs don't stand up to these clubs and ban them then they are complicit in the downfall of the game.
Well yes, UEFA and the individual FAs should ban them, and the PL should kick out the PL members. I haven’t said anything about the downfall of the game.
quote:
Which is all I have been arguing at all until you wanted a socialist vs capitalist debate.
I didn’t know voluntary association was anti-capitalist.
Posted on 4/18/21 at 8:53 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
You understand how the game was codified right? If you did, then you would understand why this is so idiotic. Nothing is stopping them from starting their own football association. The English FA is under no duty to let a rival operate under a market that they themselves created.
But their own interests demand that they protect said interests in order to keep making money. This isn't hard to understand. The English FA can also lose their arse if the Super League somehow runs them out of their own market. It happens.
It is up to the domestic leagues to stand up and stop that if they don't want it to happen.
quote:
I’d love for you to just give me a history of the game. I’m sure it will be accurate with full of understanding about why specific structures developed.
That has nothing to do with what the quoted piece above this was talking about.
quote:
They are not, as each association reserves the right to expel clubs for whatever reason they see fit. They don’t even need a good reason, though generally they do so only with regards to finances. Do you know how voluntary organizations work?
Sounds like the mechanism I have mentioned that I would support several times over the last hour, which I have also stated I would support.
Posted on 4/18/21 at 8:54 pm to Draconian Sanctions
Posted on 4/18/21 at 8:56 pm to TeLeFaWx
quote:
So when the market determines that it's the short term money grab that ruins infrastructure of the sport, hurting youth programs, hurting downtrodden communities that rally around their clubs, and the long term bottom line also shows how fricking dumb it was, then you will agree that it is the clearly greed and unethical thing that the rest of us see it as?
No. I'll see it as a failed business foray that either a) the market will never accept, or b) the market wasn't ready for.
Either way, it is their right to explore that and either fail or succeed as they will. Regardless, I doubt that the world stops playing, watching, and paying for soccer because of this.
The sensationalism is what I am calling out.
quote:
At the very least, you get that the Longhorn Network was a dumb greedy play that everyone else realized they shouldn't do, right? You clearly have some IB Chinaman stance on morality where chasing profit has zero implications and can't be immoral, so I won't get in to that, but the greed thing is clear, right?
I am just not ignorant to how the markets never give a frick about morality.
Posted on 4/18/21 at 8:57 pm to hendersonshands
quote:
American sports resemble socialism way more than European sports
That is a fact
American sports reward mediocrity
Posted on 4/18/21 at 8:58 pm to DByrd2
quote:
No. I'll see it as a failed business foray that either a) the market will never accept, or b) the market wasn't ready
Okay, so you don't even think greed is a thing. Well agree to disagree then. You need Jesus.
Posted on 4/18/21 at 9:02 pm to Riseupfromtherubble
quote:
Ahh yes, because Liverpool are expected to refrain from joining a mega league that every other big six club is joining and neuter themselves financially when they’re already at a financial disadvantage to city, Chelsea, and United.
All of the elite talent is already monopolized. When players enter their prime they are going to one of the 12 clubs that are joining this league. Don’t act like this changes anything in that regard. A “small” club hasn’t won the champions league since 2003-2004 when Porto won it. European football has had the parity of college football for quite some time now. State funded oil clubs are okay to compete against Sheffield and Brighton, but by god it’s a travesty if the biggest clubs in the world want to play in their own league.
This faux outrage is ridiculous. The playing field hasn’t been level as it is for a long time. These are teams/owners capitalizing on their clubs value. If/when this goes through, Bayern, PSG, Dortmund, Marseille, Lyon, Roma, etc will join within the next 5 years. Money makes the world go round, and these clubs aren’t going to miss out on a mountain of it out of principle. Like it or not, this is happening and it will grow before it shrinks.
It’s more than Liverpool just not wanting to standby
It was their fricking idea along with United
Shameful by both and your basically defending their actions
This post was edited on 4/18/21 at 9:05 pm
Posted on 4/18/21 at 9:02 pm to DByrd2
quote:
But their own interests demand that they protect said interests in order to keep making money
But the express purpose of the English FA isn’t to make money. Nor is the purpose of the French FA or German FA. These organizations create the market by giving a framework for the clubs, as well as operating the national leagues, although generally in the bigger countries the leagues are distinct organizations who operate with but are distinct from the FA. These FAs hey do not operate under anti-trust exemptions, as far as I’m aware, meaning any upstart could form their own rival associations. There are even other international football associations that operate outside the FIFA framework. Any association a club has with these FAs is voluntary. There is little chance the English FA will lose anything if the Super League becomes successful, and you can’t seem to understand why. It’s genuinely amazing.
quote:
That has nothing to do with what the quoted piece above this was talking about.
Because your notions of how these organizations operate is very naive. I’m mocking your lack of knowledge. I don’t know how to make myself any clearer.
quote:
Sounds like the mechanism I have mentioned that I would support several times over the last hour, which I have also stated I would support.
You’ve been acting as though these clubs didn’t voluntarily agree to these rules, which again I’ve mocked you for. It’s like you imagine these clubs don’t operate in the real world. What organization made up of voluntary members doesn’t have a mechanism to expel whoever it desires?
Posted on 4/18/21 at 9:15 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
American sports reward mediocrity
They do.
The Pyramid system developed by the English FA is the among the most market-oriented systems developed, based on pure competition. What a club like AFC Wimbledon has done is more impressive than anything certain ‘big’ clubs have done since being bought.
Posted on 4/18/21 at 9:17 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
But the express purpose of the English FA isn’t to make money. Nor is the purpose of the French FA or German FA. These organizations create the market by giving a framework for the clubs, as well as operating the national leagues, although generally in the bigger countries the leagues are distinct organizations who operate with but are distinct from the FA. These FAs hey do not operate under anti-trust exemptions, as far as I’m aware, meaning any upstart could form their own rival associations. There are even other international football associations that operate outside the FIFA framework. Any association a club has with these FAs is voluntary. There is little chance the English FA will lose anything if the Super League becomes successful, and you can’t seem to understand why. It’s genuinely amazing.
Then what is your sticking point?
Do these associations make money based off of these clubs? Do the leagues make money off of these clubs? Do the Champions League and Europa League make money off of these clubs?
quote:
Because your notions of how these organizations operate is very naive. I’m mocking your lack of knowledge. I don’t know how to make myself any clearer.
No. The thing you were mocking with that quote was a completely different and unrelated statement to the overall argument.
quote:
You’ve been acting as though these clubs didn’t voluntarily agree to these rules, which again I’ve mocked you for. It’s like you imagine these clubs don’t operate in the real world. What organization made up of voluntary members doesn’t have a mechanism to expel whoever it desires?
Eagerly awaiting the document name or how to find said document so I can look up bylaw B.6...
More to your point in the last sentence, when have I said they can't be expelled or banned? That isn't even the point I am making, dude.
Posted on 4/18/21 at 9:20 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
The Pyramid system developed by the English FA is the among the most market-oriented systems developed, based on pure competition.
Imagine being against Pyramid schemes, screaming about greed, and then turning around and praising the king of all Pyramid schemes.
What a world we live in.
This post was edited on 4/18/21 at 9:24 pm
Posted on 4/18/21 at 9:24 pm to DByrd2
quote:
Imagine being against Pyramid scheme, screaming about greed, and then turning around and praising the king of all Pyramid scheme.
What a world we live in.
Huh lol
The football league system isn’t a pyramid scheme in the sense you are portraying
Money filters down in the English system
Not up to the top
Posted on 4/18/21 at 9:24 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
Huh lol
The football league system isn’t a pyramid scheme in the sense you are portraying
Money filters down in the English system
Not up to the top
You're the king of cock-blocking a troll now.
Typical of a United fan to end the fun of an LFC supporter.
ETA: With that said, I am actually still waiting on how to find the specific bylaw this turd is supposedly referencing.
This post was edited on 4/18/21 at 9:27 pm
Posted on 4/18/21 at 9:27 pm to DByrd2
Posted on 4/18/21 at 9:29 pm to Draconian Sanctions
God dammit this is really going to happen huh
Posted on 4/18/21 at 9:31 pm to McCaigBro69
quote:
God dammit this is really going to happen huh
Yup
Posted on 4/18/21 at 9:33 pm to DByrd2
quote:
Then what is your sticking point?
That you don’t appear to know how voluntary organizations work.
quote:
Do these associations make money based off of these clubs?
These are for the most part non-profit equivalent private associations who are tasked with promoting the game through the organization of tournaments at the youth, amateur and professional level. So making money isn’t technically correct, but they do ensure standardization across the pyramid.
quote:
Do the leagues make money off of these clubs?
Of course they do. But you understand an FA operates multiple leagues under its framework, right? Can you explain to me the relationship between the “super” league and the English’s FA’s monopoly? Give me some detail for once. Show me this famous 30 year old conservative mind at work.
quote:
The thing you were mocking with that quote was a completely different and unrelated statement to the overall argument.
It isn’t. You questioned my ability to produce knowledge about what I was talking about, and I produced the referenced bylaw from only one organization, which I already mentioned, to which these clubs are subject to. That you don’t know why these organizations are layered the way they are, leaving individual clubs subject to the bylaws of multiple organizations, prompted me to remark that your rendition of the history of the game wouldn’t be your strong suit, since it appears you didn’t know that there were multiple organizations dictating the behavior of the clubs, to which all these clubs voluntarily agreed, nor did it appear you understood why the English FA wasn’t a monopoly, again for historical reasons, nor why The Football League, nor the PL itself are monopolies. This originally stems from the assertion that these organizations are operating as monopolies, which is so stupid I can’t believe I have to explain it.
quote:
Eagerly awaiting the document name or how to find said document so I can look up bylaw B.6...
I’m begging you to learn how to follow an argument. I literally told you what bylaws I’m quoting from.
quote:
More to your point in the last sentence, when have I said they can't be expelled or banned? That isn't even the point I am making, dude.
You literally said that they weren’t breaking any laws by doing this didn’t you?
Posted on 4/18/21 at 9:34 pm to DByrd2
quote:
Imagine being against Pyramid schemes, screaming about greed, and then turning around and praising the king of all Pyramid schemes.
Oh my fricking god. This is amazing. Holy shite. You truly are a moron.
Posted on 4/18/21 at 9:37 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
StraightCashHomey21
Bless his heart. He still doesn't know.
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