Telos

re: What are you reading?

Posted by Telos on 11/15/22 at 6:36 pm to TAMU-93

The Lost Metal by Brandon Sanderson

re: Another unhinged Trump statement on Ron

Posted by Telos on 11/10/22 at 5:54 pm to Message Board User

quote:
Do not contend with a man for no reason, when he has done you no harm. - Proverbs 3:30

A lesson the former President should adopt, but will not.

quote:
If a wise man has an argument with a fool, the fool only rages and laughs, and there is no quiet. Proverbs 29:9

A lesson Desantis hopefully will follow.

re: Republicans need to rethink abortion

Posted by Telos on 11/9/22 at 6:16 pm to SixthAndBarone

quote:
I think abortion is terrible

Why do you think so?

re: What are you reading?

Posted by Telos on 11/7/22 at 8:09 pm to Tiger in the Sticks

The Shijing

re: What are you reading?

Posted by Telos on 11/1/22 at 5:34 am to Che Boludo

The Outlines of Pyrrhonism - Sextus Empiricus

re: Transabled is now happening.. and now being normalized

Posted by Telos on 10/8/22 at 1:58 pm to Kafka

quote:
This would lead to the glorification of anything an officially oppressed person wants, in language, history, etc... Dick Cavett, a liberal, said in the '70s: "I can't wait for this to spread to other disciplines: the biology student's right to his own biology, the math student's right to his own math, even the divinity student's right to his own rites."

quote:
When I said just now that all motives fail them, I should have said all motives except one. All motives that claim any validity other than that of their felt emotional weight at a given moment has failed them. Everything except the sic volo, sic jubeo has been explained away. But what never claimed objectivity cannot be destroyed by subjectivism. The impulse to scratch when I itch or to pull to pieces when I am inquisitive is immune from the solvent which is fatal to my justice, or honour, or care for posterity. When all that says "it is good" has been debunked, what says "I want" remains.

C.S. Lewis - The Abolition of Man

-1

re: What are you reading?

Posted by Telos on 10/8/22 at 9:26 am to TigerFreak10

Letters from a Stoic - Seneca

re: Atlantic op-ed claims Catholic rosary has become ‘an extremist symbol’

Posted by Telos on 8/22/22 at 8:57 pm to Frank Black

quote:
Josephus is hard to wade through. Maimonides if the GOAT Jewish thinker. There are lots of excellent videos from Jewish rabbis online. My favorite is Rabbi Yitzchak Breitowitz

I will have to check him out. Much appreciated.

re: What are you reading?

Posted by Telos on 8/22/22 at 7:31 pm to LordSnow

Moralia - Plutarch, Loeb Classical Library Volume V
- Isis and Osiris, The E at Delphi, The Oracles at Delphi No Longer Given in Verse, and The Obsolescence of Oracles

re: Atlantic op-ed claims Catholic rosary has become ‘an extremist symbol’

Posted by Telos on 8/22/22 at 6:47 pm to Frank Black

quote:
There was no sacrifice in the OT for sin committed knowingly.

How would you interpret this:

quote:
The Lord spoke to Moses, saying,“If anyone sins and commits a breach of faith against the Lord by deceiving his neighbor in a matter of deposit or security, or through robbery, or if he has oppressed his neighbor or has found something lost and lied about it, swearing falsely—in any of all the things that people do and sin thereby— if he has sinned and has realized his guilt and will restore what he took by robbery or what he got by oppression or the deposit that was committed to him or the lost thing that he found or anything about which he has sworn falsely, he shall restore it in full and shall add a fifth to it, and give it to him to whom it belongs on the day he realizes his guilt. And he shall bring to the priest as his compensation to the Lord a ram without blemish out of the flock, or its equivalent, for a guilt offering. And the priest shall make atonement for him before the Lord, and he shall be forgiven for any of the things that one may do and thereby become guilty.”

Also, I am currently working my way through many of the great books of the West, and I will be sprinkling in Muslim and Jewish thinkers once I finish with the Roman authors. I presume you are Jewish or at least interested enough in Judaism to study Jewish apologetics. I have not yet done any research into what Jewish thinkers I will read except forJosephus and Maimonides. Do you have any recommendations?

re: Troubling statement from The Gospel Coalition.

Posted by Telos on 8/8/22 at 5:30 pm to oklahogjr

quote:
I don't remember Jesus ever saying it was a human christians responsibility to judge other humans christian or not for their actions.

He did.

quote:
If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. - Matthew 18:15-17

This specific example allows for an individual, a small group of Christians, and the Church body itself to properly judge a fellow Christian's action in at least one scenario. Paul provides further specification on Church discipline.

quote:
As i remember the bible he was clear about loving your neighbor, showing compassion, and doing your best to be a good person.

This is true, but to love another is to will another's good. Sin by its very definition is an act that separates you from God (Goodness Itself). One does not will another's good by ignoring what harms the other person. To outright ignore another's sin would make you a mere flatterer and not a friend.

quote:
For the flatterer always takes a position against the maxim "Know thyself", by creating in every man deception towards himself and ignorance both of himself and of the good and evil that concerns himself; the good he renders defective and incomplete, and the evil wholly impossible to amend. - Plutarch

Can one go too far in admonishing another? Of course.

quote:
Excess and deficiency are proper to vice, the mean to virtue; for we are noble in only one way, but bad in all sorts of ways. - Aristotle

re: Romans versus Vikings. Who wins?

Posted by Telos on 8/7/22 at 3:46 pm to Oilfieldbiology

quote:
The Roman’s pre-empire were tough as freaking nails.

"If we are victorious in one more battle with the Romans, we shall be utterly ruined." - Pyrrhus of Epirus

O-T Lounge

re: What are you reading?

Posted by Telos on 7/16/22 at 8:35 am to Maytheporkbewithyou

Moralia - Plutarch, Loeb Classical Library Volume III
-Sayings of Kings and Commanders, Sayings of Romans, Sayings of Spartans, The Ancient Customs of the Spartans, Sayings of Spartan Women, and Bravery of Women

re: What are you reading?

Posted by Telos on 6/27/22 at 7:59 pm to biglego

Red Country - Joe Abercrombie

re: What are you reading?

Posted by Telos on 6/24/22 at 12:04 pm to boxcarbarney

Moralia - Plutarch, Loeb Classical Library Volume I
The Education of Children, How to Study Poetry, On Listening to Lectures, How to Tell a Flatterer, and Progress in Virtue.

re: What are you reading?

Posted by Telos on 6/19/22 at 7:19 pm to GreenRockTiger

The Heroes - Joe Abercrombie

re: What are you reading?

Posted by Telos on 6/18/22 at 11:51 am to biglego

On the Laws - Cicero

re: What are you reading?

Posted by Telos on 6/15/22 at 5:33 am to Lawyered

De re publica - Cicero

re: What are you reading?

Posted by Telos on 6/10/22 at 12:40 pm to Alyosha

The Tusculan Disputations - Cicero

re: Another Point of View on Abortion

Posted by Telos on 5/5/22 at 8:37 pm to Lightning

quote:
This analogy only works for the tiny minority of abortions of pregnancies resulting from rape.

I agree with your conclusion. I remember years ago when I first read of the thought experiment. It gave me pause for a time.

re: Another Point of View on Abortion

Posted by Telos on 5/5/22 at 5:20 pm to TygerTyger

quote:
It's certainly a different way to consider the issue.

What's your thoughts?

It is in the same vein as the violinist thought experiment.

quote:
You wake up in the morning and find yourself back to back in bed with an unconscious violinist. A famous unconscious violinist. He has been found to have a fatal kidney ailment, and the Society of Music Lovers has canvassed all the available medical records and found that you alone have the right blood type to help. They have therefore kidnapped you, and last night the violinist's circulatory system was plugged into yours, so that your kidneys can be used to extract poisons from his blood as well as your own. If he is unplugged from you now, he will die; but in nine months he will have recovered from his ailment, and can safely be unplugged from you.

Most people would say you are justified in unplugging yourself from the violinist. The argument goes that since you would be justified in unplugging yourself from the violinist, so too would a woman be justified in "unplugging" themselves from their child.

re: "Fiscally conservative but socially liberal"

Posted by Telos on 5/5/22 at 1:53 pm to Ex-Popcorn

quote:

Will you send me your bank account information and log in? I can send you a private email to get it if that's easier.

Let me know.

Is this an appeal to the golden rule? I wouldn't want my property infringed upon, so I shouldn't wish the infringement of another's property?

re: "Fiscally conservative but socially liberal"

Posted by Telos on 5/5/22 at 12:40 pm to Ex-Popcorn

quote:
Guiding principle 1: Property owners can control, use, transfer or dispose of their property in any manner that does not violate the rights of others.

What is your argument for this proposition?

re: Survivor 42... Premiere 3/9

Posted by Telos on 4/27/22 at 8:59 pm to UMRealist

quote:
it was a god read that something was off. She was going home if she doesn’t do that

It was a good read on her part. I do wonder if in the scenario of split tribals the best play is to just play the idol anyway to leave no room for doubt. I believe Naseer was voted out idol in pocket in the same scenario last season. Because of the catchphrase twist, everyone knows you have an idol and the vote is between just 4 people. It would not take too much to convince the majority that they would be making a big move to take out the person with the idol.

It did work out for Mike to not play his though that may play to Drea's benefit given her knowledge is power advantage. She now effectively has an idol play without anyone knowing about it.

Movie/TV Board

re: Supreme Court ponders the right to pray on the 50-yard line

Posted by Telos on 4/27/22 at 1:36 pm to sgallo3

quote:

They could very well rule it this way, but isn't his access to the field part of his job? Can I or anybody establish a prayer in the middle of the field right after the game if he is doing it as a private citizen like me?

I don't think access to a place determines whether an act of speech is "part of the job" within the confines of the ruling in Garcetti. The way I interpret Justice Kennedy is that the act of speech (writing a memo or praying) being within the confines of the job description is what determines whether said act of speech is performed pursuant to a public employee's official duties.

quote:
That Ceballos expressed his views inside his office, rather than publicly, is not dispositive. Employees in some cases may receive First Amendment protection for expressions made at work. See, e.g., Givhan v. Western Line Consol. School Dist., 439 U. S. 410, 414 (1979). Many citizens do much of their talking inside their respective workplaces, and it would not serve the goal of treating public employees like “any member of the general public,” Pickering, 391 U. S., at 573, to hold that all speech within the office is automatically exposed to restriction.

Justice Kennedy is saying that the place where the act of speech (in this case the memo) took place is not the determining factor to whether it was performed pursuant to official duties. To my knowledge, I would not have access to Ceballos' place of work as a member of the public. Such a fact would not render the memo as speech pursuant to Ceballos' official duties as a public employee.

However, the ruling could leave it open for place of work to be a factor to consider even if it is not dispositive.

O-T Lounge

re: Supreme Court ponders the right to pray on the 50-yard line

Posted by Telos on 4/27/22 at 12:01 pm to Obtuse1

quote:
Garcetti et al. v. Ceballos 547 U.S. 410 (2006)

I'm no constitutional scholar nor have I read all the facts of the particular case, but I do not think the act of praying on the field after a game is within the official duty of the coach as a public employee according to Garcetti.

quote:
The controlling factor in Ceballos’ case is that his expressions were made pursuant to his duties as a calendar deputy. See Brief for Respondent 4 (“Ceballos does not dispute that he prepared the memorandum ‘pursuant to his duties as a prosecutor’”). That consideration—the fact that Ceballos spoke as a prosecutor fulfilling a responsibility to advise his supervisor about how best to proceed with a pending case—distinguishes Ceballos’ case from those in which the First Amendment provides protection against discipline. We hold that when public employees make statements pursuant to their official duties, the employees are not speaking as citizens for First Amendment purposes, and the Constitution does not insulate their communications from employer discipline.

Ceballos performed an action (writing the memo) in line with his job as a calendar deputy. The coach's job is presumably to coach football. The act of praying is not entailed by the profession of coaching football. Justice Kennedy further states:

quote:
Ceballos wrote his disposition memo because that is part of what he, as a calendar deputy, was employed to do.

And further explains

quote:
Ceballos did not act as a citizen when he went about conducting his daily professional activities, such as supervising attorneys, investigating charges, and preparing filings. In the same way he did not speak as a citizen by writing a memo that addressed the proper disposition of a pending criminal case. When he went to work and performed the tasks he was paid to perform, Ceballos acted as a government employee. The fact that his duties sometimes required him to speak or write does not mean his supervisors were prohibited from evaluating his performance.

Ceballos' act of writing the memo was part of his official duties because the writing of a memo advising his supervisor about how best to proceed with a pending case was part of the job he was paid to do. The act of praying is of a different nature given that the coach is certainly not being paid to pray on a football field.

O-T Lounge

-2

re: New poll:Biden at 33% approval nationally. 52% of whites with degree still approve. Wtf!!

Posted by Telos on 4/13/22 at 3:37 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!

quote:
“Why you fool, it's the educated reader who CAN be gulled. All our difficulty comes with the others. When did you meet a workman who believes the papers? He takes it for granted that they're all propaganda and skips the leading articles. He buys his paper for the football results and the little paragraphs about girls falling out of windows and corpses found in Mayfair flats. He is our problem. We have to recondition him. But the educated public, the people who read the high-brow weeklies, don't need reconditioning. They're all right already. They'll believe anything.”

C.S. Lewis, That Hideous Strength

re: 2022 Reading Challenge

Posted by Telos on 1/15/22 at 9:15 am to When in Rome

Goal 35

1) The Complete Odes and Epodes, Horace, 131
2) The Apocrypha, Various Authors
-Esdras, Tobit, Judith, Wisdom of Solomon, Ecclesiasticus, Baruch, Epistle of Jeremiah, Song of the Three Children, Susanna, Bel and the Dragon, Maccabees I-IV, Prayer of Manasseh.
3) The Early History of Rome, Livy, 435.
4) Rome and Italy, Livy, 356.
5) Gardens of the Moon, Steven Erikson, 656.
6) The War with Hannibal, Livy, 676.
7) Deadhouse Gates, Steven Erikson, 836.
8) Rome and the Mediterranean, Livy, 648.
9) The Abolition of Man, C.S. Lewis, 81.
10) That Hideous Strength, C.S. Lewis, 380.
11) Metamorphoses, Ovid, 636.
12) Memories of Ice, Steven Erikson, 913.
13) Plutarch's Lives, Plutarch, 1183.
14) On Obligations, Cicero, 126.
15) Tusculan Disputations, Cicero, 274.
16) De re publica, Cicero, 94.
17) On the Laws, Cicero, 77.
18) The Heroes, Joe Abercrombie, 541.
19) Moralia - Loeb Classical Library Volume I, Plutarch, 228.
-The Education of Children, How to Study Poetry, On Listening to Lectures, How to Tell a Flatterer, and Progress in Virtue.
20) Red Country, Joe Abercrombie, 451.
21) Moralia - Loeb Classical Library Volume II, Plutarch, 247.
-How to Profit by One's Enemies, On Having Many Friends, Chance, Virtue and Vice, A Letter of Condolence to Apollonius, Advice about Keeping Well, Advice to Bride and Groom, Dinner of the Seven Wise Men, and Superstition.
22) House of Chains, Steven Erikson, 1015.
23) The Acharnians, Aristophanes, 62.
24) A Little Hatred, Joe Abercrombie, 463.
25)Moralia - Loeb Classical Library Volume III, Plutarch, 290.
-Sayings of Kings and Commanders, Sayings of Romans, Sayings of Spartans, Ancient Customs of the Spartans, Sayings of Spartan Women, and Bravery of Women.
26) Moralia - Loeb Classical Library Volume IV, Plutarch, 263.
-The Roman Questions, The Greek Questions, Greek and Roman Parallel Stories, On the Fortune of the Romans, On the Fortune or the Virtue of Alexander, and Were the Athenians More Famous in War or in Wisdom?
27) Moralia - Loeb Classical Library Volume V, Plutarch, 250.
-Isis and Osiris, The E at Delphi, The Oracles at Delphi No Longer Given in Verse, The Obsolescence of Oracles
28) Moralia - Loeb Classical Library Volume VI, Plutarch, 258.
-Can Virtue be Taught, on Moral Virtue, On the Control of Anger, On Tranquility of Mind, On Brotherly Love, On Affection for Offspring, Whether Vice be Sufficient to Cause Unhappiness, Whether the Affections of the Soul are Worse than those of the Body, Concerning Talkativeness, and On Being a Busybody.
29) Moralia - Loeb Classical Library Volume VII, Plutarch, 303.
-On Love of Wealth, On Compliancy, On Envy and Hate, On Praising Oneself Inoffensively, On the Delays of Divine Vengeance, On Fate, On the Sign of Socrates, On Exile, and Consolation to His Wife.
30)Moralia, Loeb Classical Library Volume VIII, Plutarch, 258.
-Table Talk Books I-III and Table Talk Books IV-VI.
31)Moralia, Loeb Classical Library Volume IX, Plutarch, 220.
-Table Talk Books VII-IX and the Dialogue on Love.
32) Meditations, Marcus Aurelius, 122.
33) The Histories, Tacitus, 249.
34) The Annals of Imperial Rome, Tacitus, 397.
35) Agricola, Tacitus, 33.
36) Germania, Tacitus, 25.
37) The Trouble with Peace, Joe Abercrombie, 497.
38) The Wisdom of Crowds, Joe Abercrombie, 511.
39) Letters from a Stoic, Seneca, 231.
40) The Discourses, Epictetus.
41) Enchiridion, Epictetus.
42) The Silmarillion, J.R.R. Tolkien, 345.
43) Mindset, Dr. Carol S. Dweck, 264.
44) Phalaris, Lucian.
45) Hippias or the Bath, Lucian.
46) Dionysus, Lucian.
47) Heracles, Lucian.
48) Amber or the Swans, Lucian.
49) The Fly, Lucian.
50) Nigrinus, Lucian.
51) Demonax, Lucian.
52) The Hall, Lucian.
53) My Native Land, Lucian.
54) Octogenarians, Lucian.
55) A True Story, Lucian.
56) Slander, Lucian.
57) The Outlines of Pyrrhonism, Sextus Empiricus.
58) The Shijing, 323.

re: Post the opening line from the book you are currently reading.

Posted by Telos on 5/18/21 at 7:18 pm to Adajax

quote:
What is poetry, how many kinds of it are there, and what are their specific effects?

re: 2021 Reading Challenge

Posted by Telos on 1/23/21 at 1:36 pm to Sneaky__Sally

Goal: 35

1) History of the Peloponnesian War, Thucydides, 605
2) Plato:Complete Works, Plato, 1745
- Euthyphro, Apology, Crito, Phaedo, Cratylus, Theaetetus, Sophist, Statesmen, Parmenides, Philebus, Symposium, Phaedrus, Alcibiades, Second Alcibiades, Hipparchus, Rival Lovers, Theages, Charmides, Laches, Lysis, Euthydemus, Protagoras, Gorgias, Meno, Greater Hippias, Lesser Hippias, Ion, Menexenus, Clitophon, Republic, Timaeus, Critias, Minos, Laws, Epinomis, Letters, On Justice, On Virtue, Demodocus, Sisyphus, Halcyon, Eryxias, Axiochus, and Epigrams.
3) Physics, Aristotle, 231.
4) Metaphysics, Aristotle, 252.
5) Poetics, Aristotle, 55.