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TigerFanBigTime
| Favorite team: | LSU  |
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| Number of Posts: | 119 |
| Registered on: | 5/18/2009 |
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re: "Very significant quarterback player"
Posted by TigerFanBigTime on 6/22/10 at 6:18 pm to Uncommon Cents
I like the comment about a guy like that with the ball in his hand knows what to do. As in, a pitcher.
News flash for Lesster; the catcher is actually considered to be the QB of the baseball team....and he touches the ball as many times a game as all of the pitchers put together.
It also brings up another interesting question; RB's and WR's get the ball in their hands too. Would they make a good pitcher, or a good QB? How about the center? T-Bob or Lonegran may want to sign up with Manieri post haste.
Less needs to stick to what he knows; little league games, soccer matches, swimming matches, and sticking his weiner in......oh never mind.
News flash for Lesster; the catcher is actually considered to be the QB of the baseball team....and he touches the ball as many times a game as all of the pitchers put together.
It also brings up another interesting question; RB's and WR's get the ball in their hands too. Would they make a good pitcher, or a good QB? How about the center? T-Bob or Lonegran may want to sign up with Manieri post haste.
Less needs to stick to what he knows; little league games, soccer matches, swimming matches, and sticking his weiner in......oh never mind.
0
re: Les miles at home on fox sports now!!
Posted by TigerFanBigTime on 6/22/10 at 6:15 pm to Alan Garner
Jimmy Johnson, Parcells, Bellicheck, Saban, Spurrier, Meyer at least with regard to his health has strained his family, Lombardi, Madden to name just a few.
re: Les miles at home on fox sports now!!
Posted by TigerFanBigTime on 6/22/10 at 1:04 pm to Cash
He's better at being a family man than a coach, which is why he should quit and focus on going to swim meets, little league games, and kiddie soccer games.
The fact that he spends so much time with his family is exactly why he'll never be a great coach. Greatness at both is impossible; just about every great coach I can think of had personal relationships (wife, kids) that were either very dysfunctional or a total train wreck.
Who cares if he's a good family guy, that's not what he gets paid for.
The fact that he spends so much time with his family is exactly why he'll never be a great coach. Greatness at both is impossible; just about every great coach I can think of had personal relationships (wife, kids) that were either very dysfunctional or a total train wreck.
Who cares if he's a good family guy, that's not what he gets paid for.
re: JaMarcus Russell
Posted by TigerFanBigTime on 6/22/10 at 12:59 pm to Tchefuncte Tiger
Don't forget he gave Saban props for getting him drafted 1. on a radio interview right after the draft. No mention of Less or LSU.
He's a poster boy for 'Bama in that he's promoting them, and Saban can use his as a cautionary tale about why he rides his players so hard, and why he insists on the serious work ethic, etc.
There was a lot of tension between them at LSU, but seems JR became thankful for that after the fact. Problem is, without someone riding him (and the NFL money in the bank, rather than being held over your head before you get there) no one can push him except himself, and he obviously doesn't have the drive to do that.
I knew he was going to be a bust, because all things considered he wasn't great at LSU.
He's a poster boy for 'Bama in that he's promoting them, and Saban can use his as a cautionary tale about why he rides his players so hard, and why he insists on the serious work ethic, etc.
There was a lot of tension between them at LSU, but seems JR became thankful for that after the fact. Problem is, without someone riding him (and the NFL money in the bank, rather than being held over your head before you get there) no one can push him except himself, and he obviously doesn't have the drive to do that.
I knew he was going to be a bust, because all things considered he wasn't great at LSU.
re: HaHaHa: When did Notre Dame pass LSU?
Posted by TigerFanBigTime on 6/2/10 at 12:26 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
LSU lost our starting QB in 2006 and started the 2007 season #2.
That's because we still had the Saban influence. I distinctly remember Steele's quote that year:
"While LSU has lost QB Jamarcus Russell as the #1. pick in the NFL draft, Nick Saban's influence is still firmly entrenched in Baton Rouge and is stronger than the mindless influence of Les Miles. Further, the Raiders signed what will turn out to be the biggest bust ever. In 3 years, the NFL will be talking about how poorly LSU players are performing in the NFL".
re: Mainieri postgame quotes
Posted by TigerFanBigTime on 5/31/10 at 11:36 am to Genghis Khan
"The good news is, since there are no football players on this year's team, I won't have to worry about Les Miles showing up in Omaha, hoping to share in the glory of those players who he was never able to witness performing at a high level on the football field"?
re: Mainieri postgame quotes
Posted by TigerFanBigTime on 5/31/10 at 11:12 am to skullhawk
"There was a want to host a regional, but we will endeavor to finish first wherever we play".
re: Why is Jerry Stoval so forgotten as an All-time LSU great?
Posted by TigerFanBigTime on 5/28/10 at 3:37 pm to Lonnie4LSU
Stovall WAS a great player, one of the best ever.
It's funny looking at some of the posts, the names that come up that ring no bells with the posters. This must be a REALLY young board as far as average age goes.
I can see not many remembering Stovall in his playing days, but when you get to the 80's I would've thought there would be more familiarity. There were some truly great playes here at that time.
It's funny looking at some of the posts, the names that come up that ring no bells with the posters. This must be a REALLY young board as far as average age goes.
I can see not many remembering Stovall in his playing days, but when you get to the 80's I would've thought there would be more familiarity. There were some truly great playes here at that time.
re: Why is Jerry Stoval so forgotten as an All-time LSU great?
Posted by TigerFanBigTime on 5/28/10 at 12:25 pm to Good Times
Great coach? Seriously? Dude was NOT a good coach, and nowhere near the coach Arnsbarger was. I know first hand.
He was an assistant after his playing days, and then HC at LSU under the circumstances described in this thread. Where did he go from there? Another D-1 school? D-1AA school? An assistant at a major program? No, he was a V.P. for Hibernia Bank.
From there, he was an AD somewhere in LA, but that was based upon business acumen and sports knowledge, not because he was a great coach/sports mind.
His overall record at LSU was 22-21-2 and including 2 losing seasons out of 4. We had a great team in 82........as we did in 83 and 83 was a further indication of how bad of a coach he was.......and further indicated by Arnsbarger's success 84-86 and even Archer's success in 87.
The two best coaches at LSU were Saban and Arnsbarger. No question, hands down,no one else even close.
The two best recruiters at LSU have been Saban and a toss between Stovall and Miles, but Miles had an easier job than Stovall because of the all that Saban did from top to bottom (facilities, TAF donations, stadium, academic center, plus a NC after 45 years and a national powerhouse, as well as high profile and very good PR), but in some ways back when Stovall was here you pretty much just had to keep your in-state guys and without internet, 30 different sports TV stations/cable TV there wasn't as much pressure from out of state programs for in state talent.
From there, probably Mac or Dinardo were the best coaches, and one could argue Archer. Afterall, he had a better one year record than anyone in that group other than Saban. Then Leslie, then Stovall, then Hallman.
You could've plugged Arnsbarger, Archer, Mac, Dinardo into the exact same situation as Miles (assistants, players, program, facilities, etc) and they all could've easily gone 10-2 and I'd be willing to bet there would've been one more NC and at least one 0 loss or 1 loss season, if not 2 or more.
He was an assistant after his playing days, and then HC at LSU under the circumstances described in this thread. Where did he go from there? Another D-1 school? D-1AA school? An assistant at a major program? No, he was a V.P. for Hibernia Bank.
From there, he was an AD somewhere in LA, but that was based upon business acumen and sports knowledge, not because he was a great coach/sports mind.
His overall record at LSU was 22-21-2 and including 2 losing seasons out of 4. We had a great team in 82........as we did in 83 and 83 was a further indication of how bad of a coach he was.......and further indicated by Arnsbarger's success 84-86 and even Archer's success in 87.
The two best coaches at LSU were Saban and Arnsbarger. No question, hands down,no one else even close.
The two best recruiters at LSU have been Saban and a toss between Stovall and Miles, but Miles had an easier job than Stovall because of the all that Saban did from top to bottom (facilities, TAF donations, stadium, academic center, plus a NC after 45 years and a national powerhouse, as well as high profile and very good PR), but in some ways back when Stovall was here you pretty much just had to keep your in-state guys and without internet, 30 different sports TV stations/cable TV there wasn't as much pressure from out of state programs for in state talent.
From there, probably Mac or Dinardo were the best coaches, and one could argue Archer. Afterall, he had a better one year record than anyone in that group other than Saban. Then Leslie, then Stovall, then Hallman.
You could've plugged Arnsbarger, Archer, Mac, Dinardo into the exact same situation as Miles (assistants, players, program, facilities, etc) and they all could've easily gone 10-2 and I'd be willing to bet there would've been one more NC and at least one 0 loss or 1 loss season, if not 2 or more.
re: Why is Jerry Stoval so forgotten as an All-time LSU great?
Posted by TigerFanBigTime on 5/27/10 at 7:20 pm to Dale Murphy
Because he sucked as a coach, plain and simple. He did leave a lot of talent, and Arnsbarger made good use of it. Archer his first year, then it ran out and the rest is history.
Great player, terrible coach except for recruiting Simple as that. Take the great player part out and who does that remind you of? Hmm, it's coming to me. Let me sEe now, who doeS that remind me of?
Great player, terrible coach except for recruiting Simple as that. Take the great player part out and who does that remind you of? Hmm, it's coming to me. Let me sEe now, who doeS that remind me of?
re: Comparing Les to other great coaches.
Posted by TigerFanBigTime on 5/26/10 at 6:54 pm to roygu
Well, I saw where Michigan self-imposed sanctions of which mandatory reduced practice time is part of it.
Boy, if we can combine that with some of the comments in this thread, and personal letters of recommendation from Sammich, Choctaw, Dandy, and a few others, UM has GOT to hire ol' Lezzter. Afterall, according to them, he's a better coach than Saban based upon his 5 year record at LSU....which means he's the best coach in the country.
He can turn that thing around quick; we all know that there's no way UM will be accused of doing too much work ever again, and they can be happy going 10-2 every year.
Think about it; he IS a very good recruiter. UM recruits itself like LSU recruits itself. Les can go out there with superior talent and only have 2 tough games a year in OSU, PSU, or ND. He can go 10-2 there easy. They may never win the Big 10, but he can go to a New Years day bowl or better every year and they should be ecstatic with that.........just as many on this board would be.
Boy, if we can combine that with some of the comments in this thread, and personal letters of recommendation from Sammich, Choctaw, Dandy, and a few others, UM has GOT to hire ol' Lezzter. Afterall, according to them, he's a better coach than Saban based upon his 5 year record at LSU....which means he's the best coach in the country.
He can turn that thing around quick; we all know that there's no way UM will be accused of doing too much work ever again, and they can be happy going 10-2 every year.
Think about it; he IS a very good recruiter. UM recruits itself like LSU recruits itself. Les can go out there with superior talent and only have 2 tough games a year in OSU, PSU, or ND. He can go 10-2 there easy. They may never win the Big 10, but he can go to a New Years day bowl or better every year and they should be ecstatic with that.........just as many on this board would be.
re: Lindy's opposing coaches comment on each SEC team
Posted by TigerFanBigTime on 5/26/10 at 6:49 pm to LJBurton
Sometimes what's NOT said, speaks as loudly as what IS said. If the only comment centers around what we don't do right compared to when Saban was here, at best that means Miles is a non-factor in opposing coaches eyes.....as has been pointed out in the various discussions regarding "respect" that have permeated the board as of late.
At worst, it means they think he's a total loser.
In either case, it's in no way positive towards him. We get by on sheer talent alone; as I've said before, put any of us in a NASCAR racing against Jimmy Johnson in a Yugo and we're going to win more times than not. Put Jimmy Johnson in a NASCAR and he's going to kick our arse more times than not.
At worst, it means they think he's a total loser.
In either case, it's in no way positive towards him. We get by on sheer talent alone; as I've said before, put any of us in a NASCAR racing against Jimmy Johnson in a Yugo and we're going to win more times than not. Put Jimmy Johnson in a NASCAR and he's going to kick our arse more times than not.
re: Phil Steele Top 25
Posted by TigerFanBigTime on 5/26/10 at 6:45 pm to ottothewise
I'm going to put on P&G KAD sunglasses and say this is FANTASTIC. See, if we wind up ranked 22nd, we can celebrate as that will "better than projected".
I always enjoy setting the bar low, so that when you step over it you really feel like you've accomplished something.......
I always enjoy setting the bar low, so that when you step over it you really feel like you've accomplished something.......
re: Can we not bash Les Miles until the season starts?
Posted by TigerFanBigTime on 5/26/10 at 6:40 pm to Sammich
The beatings should continue until results improve. 
re: Comparing Les to other great coaches.
Posted by TigerFanBigTime on 5/25/10 at 1:53 pm to allipgator
I'd be remiss if I didn't add for the nth time "other great coaches" implies Less is great, when in fact he's middle of the road at best.
re: Agree or Disagree?
Posted by TigerFanBigTime on 5/25/10 at 1:52 pm to LSUis0ver9000
LSUisOver9000, are you really that dense? The guys you list MADE their fortune, they did not WIN their fortune. Therefore, THEY are NOT "Tootless Timmy" as Toothless Timmy won the lottery.
BIG difference between building something from scratch no matter what your beginnings, as compared to winning the lottery.
Toothless Timmy wins the lottery, he'll be broke because he did NOT build something, he won it. Because he won it, and did not build it, he does not know how to handle it. Further he may LOOK like the guys you outline who actually BUILT something, but he's not like them.
Les Miles "won" the college football with what he inherited, he did NOT build it. To compare what he's done to what Saban built is not analagous. Les is an illusion when it comes to great coaches, he's not one himself.
BIG difference between building something from scratch no matter what your beginnings, as compared to winning the lottery.
Toothless Timmy wins the lottery, he'll be broke because he did NOT build something, he won it. Because he won it, and did not build it, he does not know how to handle it. Further he may LOOK like the guys you outline who actually BUILT something, but he's not like them.
Les Miles "won" the college football with what he inherited, he did NOT build it. To compare what he's done to what Saban built is not analagous. Les is an illusion when it comes to great coaches, he's not one himself.
re: Agree or Disagree?
Posted by TigerFanBigTime on 5/24/10 at 1:53 pm to Bayou Paddler
Your forgetting two BIG influences; Jimbo, and Pelini. Jimbo had the Saban mindset and approach, and Bo did too even though he didn't coach under him.
You guys discount "mindset", but mindset and approach are huge, and that comes about through influence, no different than having a very good teacher early on in school at various levels.
Saban instilled a mindset and approach that carried over at least a year or two, and Jimbo and Pelini are hard driving task masters the same as Saban.
It took awhile for that to wear off, not coincidentally after Jimbo, and then Pelini. You can see that in the O, as it was Jimbo and Saban's influence that was on Flynn, Hester, and the like. After that influence wore off, things went downhill on the O. Then, we saw the same thing on the D for one year, but luckily Chief came in and re-worked that mindset quickly.
In 2008 and 2009, your talking players and coaches who had no experience under the Saban regime, the mindset was all Jimbo and Pelini. Miles doesn't really have a mindset, and it shows on the field. That's why when you don't have strong assistants it's bitten us in the a$$. Miles is just sort of there, a non-factor as far as setting tone, and when the bar isn't set high, the tone is automatically set low.
You guys discount "mindset", but mindset and approach are huge, and that comes about through influence, no different than having a very good teacher early on in school at various levels.
Saban instilled a mindset and approach that carried over at least a year or two, and Jimbo and Pelini are hard driving task masters the same as Saban.
It took awhile for that to wear off, not coincidentally after Jimbo, and then Pelini. You can see that in the O, as it was Jimbo and Saban's influence that was on Flynn, Hester, and the like. After that influence wore off, things went downhill on the O. Then, we saw the same thing on the D for one year, but luckily Chief came in and re-worked that mindset quickly.
In 2008 and 2009, your talking players and coaches who had no experience under the Saban regime, the mindset was all Jimbo and Pelini. Miles doesn't really have a mindset, and it shows on the field. That's why when you don't have strong assistants it's bitten us in the a$$. Miles is just sort of there, a non-factor as far as setting tone, and when the bar isn't set high, the tone is automatically set low.
re: Just an observation......about Tricky Nicky
Posted by TigerFanBigTime on 5/24/10 at 12:21 pm to The_Pistol
At 60, that'll be the right age to be our AD and HC for a few years, while he grooms the HC in waiting. 
re: Agree or Disagree?
Posted by TigerFanBigTime on 5/24/10 at 12:18 pm to 1984Tiger
There are always going to be 2 distinct camps on this until Less is gone.
There should only be one; the jury's still out on him.
It's amazing to me the people who support Miles support him due to 2 things:
1. He's our coach, therefore if you don't support him, you don't support LSU.
Really? Sort of like if you don't support NObama, you don't support the U.S.? Only in some twisted mindset/logic, is that the case. In fact, if you DO support LSU, you have every right to be vigilant and to speak up, even if speaking up means pushing for change at the top.
2. 2005-2007. Best 3 year stretch in LSU history, 2 west titles, 1 SECC, 1 NC. BUT, there's no way Saban's influence had anything to do with that.
Again, really? So, you guys must be the same guys who look at toothless Timmy from Trailerville, after he's won the Powerball, as being "equal" to Donald Trump.
You see, it appears that way for awhile, but only until Toothless Timmy has enough time to frick around with that money and get himself in a mess. As is usually the case, within 3-5 years, Toothless Timmy will be back living in Trailerville, and as a broke dick MF.
Why? Because he wasn't financially savvy, he wasn't a businessman, he didn't build or earn his fortune, he won it. Just like Less won the Powerball of college football with the situation he walked into.
No, the only true benchmark of Miles is MAYBE 2007-2009, but for sure 2008-2009. How did he do those years?
That's why I say, at best, the jury's still out on him. This year will tell us what we've got, and my strong belief is 4 losses minimum again, and it might be as many as 6.
We've got all the talent in the world, and forget the recruiting debate; surely Rivals, Scout, and every other 100 services out there can't be wrong.........and they certainly aren't wrong "more" with LSU than they're wrong with any other school. No, LSU has plenty of talent, and it's exactly THAT TALENT that's kept things from being worse in 08 and 09 than what they were, and quite frankly, we should've gone undefeated or had a 1 loss season at least once if not twice from 05-07.
There should only be one; the jury's still out on him.
It's amazing to me the people who support Miles support him due to 2 things:
1. He's our coach, therefore if you don't support him, you don't support LSU.
Really? Sort of like if you don't support NObama, you don't support the U.S.? Only in some twisted mindset/logic, is that the case. In fact, if you DO support LSU, you have every right to be vigilant and to speak up, even if speaking up means pushing for change at the top.
2. 2005-2007. Best 3 year stretch in LSU history, 2 west titles, 1 SECC, 1 NC. BUT, there's no way Saban's influence had anything to do with that.
Again, really? So, you guys must be the same guys who look at toothless Timmy from Trailerville, after he's won the Powerball, as being "equal" to Donald Trump.
You see, it appears that way for awhile, but only until Toothless Timmy has enough time to frick around with that money and get himself in a mess. As is usually the case, within 3-5 years, Toothless Timmy will be back living in Trailerville, and as a broke dick MF.
Why? Because he wasn't financially savvy, he wasn't a businessman, he didn't build or earn his fortune, he won it. Just like Less won the Powerball of college football with the situation he walked into.
No, the only true benchmark of Miles is MAYBE 2007-2009, but for sure 2008-2009. How did he do those years?
That's why I say, at best, the jury's still out on him. This year will tell us what we've got, and my strong belief is 4 losses minimum again, and it might be as many as 6.
We've got all the talent in the world, and forget the recruiting debate; surely Rivals, Scout, and every other 100 services out there can't be wrong.........and they certainly aren't wrong "more" with LSU than they're wrong with any other school. No, LSU has plenty of talent, and it's exactly THAT TALENT that's kept things from being worse in 08 and 09 than what they were, and quite frankly, we should've gone undefeated or had a 1 loss season at least once if not twice from 05-07.
re: Who's fans want LSU football to fail more than anyone this year??
Posted by TigerFanBigTime on 5/23/10 at 5:05 pm to BigAppleTiger
NO SEC fan base wants him to get fired. As many have said, they hope we keep him around for a long time, as the longer we keep him around, the happier they are.
re: If Miles and/or Crowton..
Posted by TigerFanBigTime on 5/16/10 at 2:45 pm to NicoBlues
I'd say Wilson and Gonzo are definitely keepers, and in fact Gonzo could be a potential OC depending upon the background of the new HC. Chavis could be kept if the new HC had an O background, but would most probably be let go if the new HC had a D background.
If you thought of guys like Muschamp, Pelini, or Patterson as at the top of the list of potential HC's, Chavis would be gone. I could see Muschamp actually going after someone like Smart as DC as I believe they are close. Don't know if Patterson would retain Chavis or bring in his own younger up and comer, and Pelini would most probably bring in someone else too.
You could actually end up with a really good staff in those scenarios; Muschamp/Smart/Cooper/Gonzo/Wilson, or Patterson or Pelini with Cooper/Gonzo/Wilson, and a DC TBD.
If you thought of guys like Muschamp, Pelini, or Patterson as at the top of the list of potential HC's, Chavis would be gone. I could see Muschamp actually going after someone like Smart as DC as I believe they are close. Don't know if Patterson would retain Chavis or bring in his own younger up and comer, and Pelini would most probably bring in someone else too.
You could actually end up with a really good staff in those scenarios; Muschamp/Smart/Cooper/Gonzo/Wilson, or Patterson or Pelini with Cooper/Gonzo/Wilson, and a DC TBD.
re: If We're Going To Compare Miles and Saban
Posted by TigerFanBigTime on 5/16/10 at 2:40 pm to HuRRiCaNe MiLeS
This is true, Hurricane. :beatdeadhorse: Guess I might as well jump on the bandwagon and beat that one to death some more.
re: How do outsiders perceive Miles?
Posted by TigerFanBigTime on 5/16/10 at 2:39 pm to DallasTiger
UncommonCents, I gave facts. You can ask for "proof" all you want, but all of those things are facts. All but 1 or 2 of those things are easily proven. If Miles had been contacted or interviewed by any school, other than UM in 07, it would be out there as none of that stuff is a secret and the Miles supporters on here would've been offering it up in defense of him years ago.
As far as the UM/Moeller situation goes, that's common knowledge within the UM community, even if it may not be so here. What our admin has on Les will come out when he's gone.
You can take personal shots all you want, but isn't it funny that you find it necessary to attack posters who aren't attacking you, in some sort of perceived defense of Miles? Daddy issues?
As far as the UM/Moeller situation goes, that's common knowledge within the UM community, even if it may not be so here. What our admin has on Les will come out when he's gone.
You can take personal shots all you want, but isn't it funny that you find it necessary to attack posters who aren't attacking you, in some sort of perceived defense of Miles? Daddy issues?
If We're Going To Compare Miles and Saban
Posted by TigerFanBigTime on 5/16/10 at 2:28 pm
The only basis of comparison is Saban 03-04 at LSU, and 08-09 at 'Bama, and Miles 06-09 at LSU.
-You can't count 00, and 01 as you've got allow for the building of the same program Miles inherited, from top to bottom.
-As much physical talent as Saban may or may not have inherited, he certainly didn't inherit anywhere close to what Miles inherited, and more importantly, building a mindset is harder than tearing one down.
-It took 3 years minimum to build the infastructure, support, fan base back up, donations back up to what Miles walked into.
-Miles gets a pass in 05 due to Katrina. Unfortunately, that doesn't work to his favor if you take out one of his 3 best years when it comes to W-L's.
-Saban overachieved in 00 and 01, no question about it. He maybe overachieved in 08 and 'Bama as well, but obviously 'Bama was in better shape in 07 than LSU was in 00.
-02, we were probably right where we were supposed to be, and maybe would've ended up overachieving again had Mauck not gotten hurt.
-04, we underachieved even considering it was a rebuilding year. Yet, outside of the UGA game, it was pretty similar to UF's 2007 year on the heels of their 06 NC, and before their next NC in 08. Probably the worst college coaching job of Saban's career. Had his head in the clouds and spending too much time flirting with his next great goal, the NFL.
-Miles inherited 2 NFL QB's including the 1. pick in the draft. Granted, JR wasn't that good, but if you want to tout he was a 1. draft pick as credit to Miles, you have to credit Miles with having that same resource at his disposal. He also recruited the 1. HS QB and what should've been a future NFL QB in RP. Saban had no such benefit unless you consider Ro as an equal to JR, MF, and RP and JPW and McElroy as equals to JR, MF, and RP.
That's the basics of the basis of the comparison.
So, if we give Miles 05 even though it was his first year/Katrina year it props him up, but it handicaps by counting his first year at 'Bama. The records are Miles 51-14 and Saban is 53-12.
If you take out 05 for Miles and 07 for Saban, it's 41-12 for Miles and 47-6 for Saban.
When looking at Saban teams and Miles teams, and comparing seasons, wins, losses, blunders, the only equal basis of comparison is Saban 03-04, and 'Bama 08-09. Miles is 06-09. So, if you want to compare games and seasons, there's your starting point. Saban has had 3 bad games; UGA and Iowa in 04, and Utah in 08. Compare that to Miles and LSU.
-You can't count 00, and 01 as you've got allow for the building of the same program Miles inherited, from top to bottom.
-As much physical talent as Saban may or may not have inherited, he certainly didn't inherit anywhere close to what Miles inherited, and more importantly, building a mindset is harder than tearing one down.
-It took 3 years minimum to build the infastructure, support, fan base back up, donations back up to what Miles walked into.
-Miles gets a pass in 05 due to Katrina. Unfortunately, that doesn't work to his favor if you take out one of his 3 best years when it comes to W-L's.
-Saban overachieved in 00 and 01, no question about it. He maybe overachieved in 08 and 'Bama as well, but obviously 'Bama was in better shape in 07 than LSU was in 00.
-02, we were probably right where we were supposed to be, and maybe would've ended up overachieving again had Mauck not gotten hurt.
-04, we underachieved even considering it was a rebuilding year. Yet, outside of the UGA game, it was pretty similar to UF's 2007 year on the heels of their 06 NC, and before their next NC in 08. Probably the worst college coaching job of Saban's career. Had his head in the clouds and spending too much time flirting with his next great goal, the NFL.
-Miles inherited 2 NFL QB's including the 1. pick in the draft. Granted, JR wasn't that good, but if you want to tout he was a 1. draft pick as credit to Miles, you have to credit Miles with having that same resource at his disposal. He also recruited the 1. HS QB and what should've been a future NFL QB in RP. Saban had no such benefit unless you consider Ro as an equal to JR, MF, and RP and JPW and McElroy as equals to JR, MF, and RP.
That's the basics of the basis of the comparison.
So, if we give Miles 05 even though it was his first year/Katrina year it props him up, but it handicaps by counting his first year at 'Bama. The records are Miles 51-14 and Saban is 53-12.
If you take out 05 for Miles and 07 for Saban, it's 41-12 for Miles and 47-6 for Saban.
When looking at Saban teams and Miles teams, and comparing seasons, wins, losses, blunders, the only equal basis of comparison is Saban 03-04, and 'Bama 08-09. Miles is 06-09. So, if you want to compare games and seasons, there's your starting point. Saban has had 3 bad games; UGA and Iowa in 04, and Utah in 08. Compare that to Miles and LSU.
re: How do outsiders perceive Miles?
Posted by TigerFanBigTime on 5/16/10 at 1:09 pm to UtahHawg
You guys who constantly support Miles, do it misguidedly and with no regard to certain facts.
Fact: Miles is not supported or respected by 50% or more of OUR fan base. That's lost dollars every time the stadium empties out at half time, or before mid-way through the 4th quarter at the earliest due to lost concession sales, merchandising, etc.
Fact: Those lost dollars translate into lost dollars on national merchandising, reduced or less than prime TV appearances, lower tier bowl games, etc.
Fact: Those lost dollars continue with regard to donations, TAF donations are down....other than those who would gladly give or give more if it also included a buyout.
Fact: NO ONE other than possibly UM in 2007 has EVER wanted him, and they were no more than 50% in support of hiring him either.
Fact: When we hired him in 2005, what other schools were talking to him? He was the last if not close to the last hire that year. UF, ND, Illinois, Pitt, Stanford, Ole Miss, Syracuse, South Carolina, Washington, Indiana are the one's worth mentioning. NO.
Fact: Did he interview and was he offered an interview for ANY of those jobs, or ANY of the other lower level jobs open that year such as East Carolina, Marshall, San Jose State, N.M. State, or even Utah which was actually a desirable job with Meyer leaving for UF? NO!!
Fact: Les doesn't attract good coaches to LSU, LSU attracts good coaches to LSU. If anything, Les' positive influence on that is NOT positive unless a reputation for being an easy boss to work for, who doesn't ask as much of his employees as do other coaches is considered a positive.
Fact: We pay Les 3.9mm per year. As a highly paid public figure, he is open to extreme public scrutiny, and extremly high expectations.
Fact: I saw it in this thread or another one today; "Stoops can't win the big one's either, he's not a good coach". Okay, but then YOU can't hold up Lesster's 2 wins over OU while he was at OSU as some sort of major accomplishment, now can you.
Fact: OSU's biggest supporter, is as much to blame for us hiring Less as is Bertman. Because, the reason things went down the way they did, was he was about to be fired. Had that not been the case, he would've stayed at OSU even knowing he wasn't supported and wanted by most. That should scare the shite out of you if you ever think he'll be beaten down/shamed/embarassed/whatever into leaving here short of a UM job offer.......which ain't coming.......see Jim Harbaugh.
Fact: If we agree that Les is a "good" guy, that does NOT make him a good football coach, nor is that a reason to support him as our coach.
Fact: With regard to the good guy status, do you know WHY UM and guys like Carr do NOT support him when he should be at the top of their list each and every year? Because he's got a reputation as being less than honest, and his actions AT UM were less than "good guy" actions. He was banging his boss' wife, and that's why he was forced out and how he ended up at CU under McCartney. Yes, he was banging Moeller's wife.
Fact: You mention some "unknown things" with regard to Coker at Miami. Do you know about those same "unknown things" with Les at LSU? Some are sort of common knowledge like losing the team in 2008, and the chaos on the plane after the Arkie game that year. There are other things in that vein. There are also things that are not well known to the masses, but they are known to his boss and other higher ups and it's documented internally.
These are all reasons of concern for our admin, and should be reasons for concern for us OVER AND ABOVE the obvious which we debate about constantly on this board. Some of those things have lead to some of these things, such as the national perception of him, and the fact that no school out there wants him.
Even with the success he's had at LSU, the only times you've ever even heard his name in the rumor mill with other jobs has be CU, and Baylor. Is that our standard? Are those the types of programs we measure ourselves against? I sure as hell hope not.
All that said, can Les turn it around this year? Sure, anything is possible, but if does happen, does he get the credit or is he along for the ride? See point above about LSU attracting coaches, not Les attracting coaches and it will be the assistants who turned it around, not him. But, I don't see it happening. Short of a 12-0 to a 10-2 season, there will be question marks surrounding him and something will happen.......as it has EVERY year he's been here. We were able to overlook some of that due to Katrina, the 2 loss NC, the loss of RP, etc, but the blunders and mistakes at all levels have caught up to him and nothing short of near perfection for 2 or 3 years will turn that around.
Fact: Miles is not supported or respected by 50% or more of OUR fan base. That's lost dollars every time the stadium empties out at half time, or before mid-way through the 4th quarter at the earliest due to lost concession sales, merchandising, etc.
Fact: Those lost dollars translate into lost dollars on national merchandising, reduced or less than prime TV appearances, lower tier bowl games, etc.
Fact: Those lost dollars continue with regard to donations, TAF donations are down....other than those who would gladly give or give more if it also included a buyout.
Fact: NO ONE other than possibly UM in 2007 has EVER wanted him, and they were no more than 50% in support of hiring him either.
Fact: When we hired him in 2005, what other schools were talking to him? He was the last if not close to the last hire that year. UF, ND, Illinois, Pitt, Stanford, Ole Miss, Syracuse, South Carolina, Washington, Indiana are the one's worth mentioning. NO.
Fact: Did he interview and was he offered an interview for ANY of those jobs, or ANY of the other lower level jobs open that year such as East Carolina, Marshall, San Jose State, N.M. State, or even Utah which was actually a desirable job with Meyer leaving for UF? NO!!
Fact: Les doesn't attract good coaches to LSU, LSU attracts good coaches to LSU. If anything, Les' positive influence on that is NOT positive unless a reputation for being an easy boss to work for, who doesn't ask as much of his employees as do other coaches is considered a positive.
Fact: We pay Les 3.9mm per year. As a highly paid public figure, he is open to extreme public scrutiny, and extremly high expectations.
Fact: I saw it in this thread or another one today; "Stoops can't win the big one's either, he's not a good coach". Okay, but then YOU can't hold up Lesster's 2 wins over OU while he was at OSU as some sort of major accomplishment, now can you.
Fact: OSU's biggest supporter, is as much to blame for us hiring Less as is Bertman. Because, the reason things went down the way they did, was he was about to be fired. Had that not been the case, he would've stayed at OSU even knowing he wasn't supported and wanted by most. That should scare the shite out of you if you ever think he'll be beaten down/shamed/embarassed/whatever into leaving here short of a UM job offer.......which ain't coming.......see Jim Harbaugh.
Fact: If we agree that Les is a "good" guy, that does NOT make him a good football coach, nor is that a reason to support him as our coach.
Fact: With regard to the good guy status, do you know WHY UM and guys like Carr do NOT support him when he should be at the top of their list each and every year? Because he's got a reputation as being less than honest, and his actions AT UM were less than "good guy" actions. He was banging his boss' wife, and that's why he was forced out and how he ended up at CU under McCartney. Yes, he was banging Moeller's wife.
Fact: You mention some "unknown things" with regard to Coker at Miami. Do you know about those same "unknown things" with Les at LSU? Some are sort of common knowledge like losing the team in 2008, and the chaos on the plane after the Arkie game that year. There are other things in that vein. There are also things that are not well known to the masses, but they are known to his boss and other higher ups and it's documented internally.
These are all reasons of concern for our admin, and should be reasons for concern for us OVER AND ABOVE the obvious which we debate about constantly on this board. Some of those things have lead to some of these things, such as the national perception of him, and the fact that no school out there wants him.
Even with the success he's had at LSU, the only times you've ever even heard his name in the rumor mill with other jobs has be CU, and Baylor. Is that our standard? Are those the types of programs we measure ourselves against? I sure as hell hope not.
All that said, can Les turn it around this year? Sure, anything is possible, but if does happen, does he get the credit or is he along for the ride? See point above about LSU attracting coaches, not Les attracting coaches and it will be the assistants who turned it around, not him. But, I don't see it happening. Short of a 12-0 to a 10-2 season, there will be question marks surrounding him and something will happen.......as it has EVERY year he's been here. We were able to overlook some of that due to Katrina, the 2 loss NC, the loss of RP, etc, but the blunders and mistakes at all levels have caught up to him and nothing short of near perfection for 2 or 3 years will turn that around.
re: If Miles Were An Animal.....
Posted by TigerFanBigTime on 5/15/10 at 8:28 pm to Uncommon Cents
I've met him twice and he's a weird dude. Once shortly after he was hired, and then a year later. I'll leave it there.
re: If Miles Were An Animal.....
Posted by TigerFanBigTime on 5/15/10 at 8:25 pm to TigerFanBigTime
Okay, Canyon, a pooh bear. In that context, I would've said Eore, but okay, good call.
re: If Miles Were An Animal.....
Posted by TigerFanBigTime on 5/15/10 at 8:24 pm to TIGRLEE
Ok, I understand wolverine, but he doesn't possess wolverine tendencies.
re: If Miles Were An Animal.....
Posted by TigerFanBigTime on 5/15/10 at 8:21 pm to TigerFanBigTime
Ok, a bear. Why?
re: If Miles Were An Animal.....
Posted by TigerFanBigTime on 5/15/10 at 8:20 pm to Uncommon Cents
Dear Mrs. Miles, you love Les long time.
re: If Miles Were An Animal.....
Posted by TigerFanBigTime on 5/15/10 at 8:18 pm to Uncommon Cents
Dear Mrs. Miles, thank you for stopping by.
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