Domain: tiger-web1.srvr.media3.us User Profile: Machiavellian | TigerDroppings.com
User Avatar

Machiavellian

All PostsAll TopicsPick'em
Favorite team:LSU 
Location:
Biography:
Interests:
Occupation:
Number of Posts:214
Registered on:10/2/2010
Online Status: 

Forum
Message

re: Grade the Muschamp Hire

Posted by Machiavellian on 12/12/10 at 12:37 am to Broseph Barksdale
B
Jump to PostView Topicreplies1

re: Muschamp to UF (links added)

Posted by Machiavellian on 12/12/10 at 12:34 am to Coater
hire isn't all that far-fetched

Urban was begged back last yr by Foley. This yr was last yr and gave them time to plan. Muschamp gives them a hot prospect, young coach, players coach, recruiter, etc. Hell, if Miles went to Michigan this would be the first guy LSU called

Muschamp also is accessible right away during prime recuriting season because TX didnt make a bowl, and he's rival UGA's alum which is an extra dig

I dont mind the hire at all
Jump to PostView Topicreplies0

re: Recruiting Louisiana: SABAN >>>>> Les Miles

Posted by Machiavellian on 12/12/10 at 12:28 am to Prominentwon
quote:
I guess you give no credit to Miles for landing Kadron Boone from OOS


beat out Texas Tech for him

Jump to PostView Topicreplies1

re: Recruiting Louisiana: SABAN >>>>> Les Miles

Posted by Machiavellian on 12/11/10 at 4:49 pm to ProjectP2294
quote:
Machiavellian is making terrible arguments, contradicting himself, passing off his opinion as fact, and talking down the OOS players we've signed, but other than that, nothing is really going on here.


that's your opinion
Jump to PostView Topicreplies2

re: Recruiting Louisiana: SABAN >>>>> Les Miles

Posted by Machiavellian on 12/11/10 at 4:48 pm to ProjectP2294
Do I think Reed is a rare find? no

Was he widely identified as one of the top prospects in Louisiana last year? yes

Same with Greg this year? yes
Jump to PostView Topicreplies1

re: Recruiting Louisiana: SABAN >>>>> Les Miles

Posted by Machiavellian on 12/11/10 at 4:30 pm to c on z
quote:
No one saw Montgomery and Ferguson coming.


niether had logical in-state powers really

Both were great gets, no question. But it's not like we went into Miami and snagged a big-time player like we did with PP7

Trooper came right into the heart of LSU country and took two of our finest right from underneath our noses
Jump to PostView Topicreplies4

re: Recruiting Louisiana: SABAN >>>>> Les Miles

Posted by Machiavellian on 12/11/10 at 4:27 pm to Choctaw
quote:
Like i said....many recruits have been mentioned....you choose to dismiss them.


then I guess we have a difference of opinion, which is fine. Again, what I consider a hard recruiting win is all laid out in this thread. I would like to see more of them. That's all

Jump to PostView Topicreplies0

re: Thanks Greg Robinson...

Posted by Machiavellian on 12/11/10 at 4:25 pm to Linkovich
quote:
Agreed, but it's never an excuse to act like a jackass.


agree

but accountability is what it is. Les and staff get paid a lot of money, and when you have big advantages over two Thibodeaux kids and lose them both back-to-back years people are going to hold you accountable. Just the way it is

I agree that flaming isn't the way to go though
Jump to PostView Topicreplies3

re: Thanks Greg Robinson...

Posted by Machiavellian on 12/11/10 at 4:12 pm to Linkovich
hard in sport to accept losses when you're in position to have the advantages to win

just the way it is with anything..whether it's a big-time recruit or a game against Ole Miss when you fail to manage the clock

so when it happens, you get called out for it 100% of the time :)
Jump to PostView Topicreplies4

re: Recruiting Louisiana: SABAN >>>>> Les Miles

Posted by Machiavellian on 12/11/10 at 3:59 pm to Choctaw
quote:
Wasn't TT the #1 receiver in the country?


again, doesn't apply when the in-state power doesn't go after the prospect. Mack Brown/Texas didn't want Toliver who was from Hempstead, TEXAS

thus he had to go somewhere. He was legacy at LSU so he chose LSU, which was also closer in proximity than his #2 choice which was Florida

Nice pick-up by Miles, but it's not a stretch to say that any coach at LSU could have landed Toliver

Again, I want to see Miles and staff win a real battle nobody expected us to win. A real hard battle that would clearly show that we out-recruited the more logical powers

We did this with PP7 the year we won the National Title which gave us the cache we likely needed. And Miles was very close on doing it again with Debose a couple of years ago -- but Debose chose the logical power at the end

Auburn has come in two years in a row and taken a highly rated prospect from La. that were prominent targets for us. Whether they go on to disappoint (like someone mentioned with McKnight) or not is irrelevent...you simply got out-performed by opposing coaching staffs that came into your state and grabbed your prospects that you had a major geographical advantage over

So, like I said, I would like to see Miles and his staff of recruiters go get a major win where the odds are stacked against them, that's all. Saban, Auburn, USC, ND, UGA, Florida, Tenn, etc. do it annually.

I appreciate Miles' recruiting efforts and do believe he's a good recruiter as a whole... but most of the kids he gets are very logical or ones he didn't have to battle logical powers for. I want to see them win more of the big and hard recruiting battles... expecting several a year is unreasonable, obviously..but I expect the strength of our program deserves to grab more than Peterson and Barksdale in this category over the course of Miles' tenure at LSU

Just my opinion
Jump to PostView Topicreplies2

re: Recruiting Louisiana: SABAN >>>>> Les Miles

Posted by Machiavellian on 12/11/10 at 2:27 pm to ProjectP2294
quote:
So basically we lose marquee in-state players to schools and coaches that have been tied to recruiting and improper benefit scandals. I can live with that.


fair enough.

If we lost McKnight, Jackson and Reed and Robinson to $$$ from Carroll, Kiffin and Auburn then I can live with it too. If that was the case..maybe we know some day, maybe we don't
Jump to PostView Topicreplies1

re: Recruiting Louisiana: SABAN >>>>> Les Miles

Posted by Machiavellian on 12/11/10 at 2:24 pm to Louie T
quote:
I'd much rather our coaches find productive guys from anywhere such as Kelvin Sheppard


for every one Sheppard, there is 8 kids like JT Lott, Cordian Hagans, Ernest McCoy, Steven Singleton, etc.
Jump to PostView Topicreplies3

re: Recruiting Louisiana: SABAN >>>>> Les Miles

Posted by Machiavellian on 12/11/10 at 2:19 pm to c on z
quote:
Based on your logic if the #1 player in it's own state isn't sought out by the home school, then he isn't a marquee recruit.


no, my point was it wasn't a difficult battle for Les because the kid was legacy and the in-state power didn't put up a battle
Jump to PostView Topicreplies2

re: Recruiting Louisiana: SABAN >>>>> Les Miles

Posted by Machiavellian on 12/11/10 at 2:18 pm to bmy
quote:
rovon Reed wasn't a marquee prospect.


arguably the highest-rated Louisiana kid in 2009 and LSU wanted him, thus he was a marquee in-state loss
Jump to PostView Topicreplies3

re: Recruiting Louisiana: SABAN >>>>> Les Miles

Posted by Machiavellian on 12/11/10 at 2:17 pm to Louie T
quote:
So Barksdale and Patrick Peterson = 2

Reed and Robinson = 2


Janzen Jackson, Joe McKnight, etc.
Jump to PostView Topicreplies3

re: Recruiting Louisiana: SABAN >>>>> Les Miles

Posted by Machiavellian on 12/11/10 at 2:15 pm to jdg91878
quote:
Just add Saban into the header and watch the scramble ensue.


I could care less about Saban

my point has everything to do with Miles and staff
Jump to PostView Topicreplies0

re: Recruiting Louisiana: SABAN >>>>> Les Miles

Posted by Machiavellian on 12/11/10 at 2:14 pm to ProjectP2294
quote:
It's not hard to accept your opinion, people have terrible opinions all the time. But you are stating your opinion as if it is fact, and your opinion is actually illogical and ill informed.


that's your opinion :)
Jump to PostView Topicreplies0

re: Recruiting Louisiana: SABAN >>>>> Les Miles

Posted by Machiavellian on 12/11/10 at 2:13 pm to bmy
quote:
It's because your opinion on what makes a player marquee involves having an in-state school pursue him


yes. they do have the most information on the kid

just like Frank Alexander and some other high rated kids from Louisiana. I don't mind them going elsewhere because we didn't want them.

But when we want them and they leave like Janzen Jackson, Reed, etc. - then it's not a good thing obviously

Of course this will happen, but I just would like to see us go into Alabama - where there are always top LB prospects - and get a kid at a position we always need ..we're always in on these guys but Saban and Auburn always get them over Les
Jump to PostView Topicreplies3

re: Recruiting Louisiana: SABAN >>>>> Les Miles

Posted by Machiavellian on 12/11/10 at 2:10 pm to Louie T
quote:
Joseph Barksdale
4 star #67 player on Rivals
5 star on Scout
All SEC player
From MICHIGAN

But he's not a marquee recruit


ok, I'll give you Barsdale...sure. Doesn't change my position
Jump to PostView Topicreplies2

re: Recruiting Louisiana: SABAN >>>>> Les Miles

Posted by Machiavellian on 12/11/10 at 2:07 pm to bmy
quote:
And we have -- yet you refuse to recognize that fact. You dismissed Terrance Tolliver as a legacy and said that he was 'passed up' when he was top-15 overall in the nation and a 5*


Mack Brown didn't go after him. Texas Longhorns are the in-state power where Toliver came from. It's that simple.

Jump to PostView Topicreplies2

re: Recruiting Louisiana: SABAN >>>>> Les Miles

Posted by Machiavellian on 12/11/10 at 2:06 pm to ProjectP2294
quote:
You realize that some of the guys that you claim weren't marquee were Top 100 players out of high school? You aren't stating facts, you are using your opinion of players as a basis for your argument and it proves nothing except that you have a flawed view of history.


Again, if they weren't highly coveted guys that the in-state powers went after then I don't call them marquee.

Most of those highly rated players by Rivals that we got OOS were kids that came from states where there was no in-state recruiting power OR kids that the in-state powers passed on (in TX, AL, FL, GA)

LSU is a power, so when we lose top rated kids that we really want from the state of Louisiana then that's a problem IMO

Why is it so hard to accept my opinion on this? You can have your own and that's fine
Jump to PostView Topicreplies3

re: Recruiting Louisiana: SABAN >>>>> Les Miles

Posted by Machiavellian on 12/11/10 at 2:01 pm to bmy
quote:

4* Jakhari Gore - Miami, Florida and FSU didn't want
4* Justin Maclin - good get but not marquee
4* Akiem Hicks - didn't DJ pay for his apartment?


I addressed the others. And again, I'm not flaming on any of these kids. I hope they are great and some have shown their worth already.

My point was battling in-state powers for kids on top of their boards... if Bama and Auburn can come into Louisiana and battle Les and Co. for our top kids then I expect us to do the same for a few, that's all

Jump to PostView Topicreplies2

re: Recruiting Louisiana: SABAN >>>>> Les Miles

Posted by Machiavellian on 12/11/10 at 1:57 pm to GeauxAggie972
quote:
I RA'd. I'm tired of this guy's crap. We are getting to 7 pages and you've proven absolutely nothing


neither have you. Chatboards are for debating. I'm doing nothing more than that. I think my points are valid and contain fact

I would think Chicken would love to get as many pages as possible from a thread of solid debating, why would he be upset by it?
Jump to PostView Topicreplies2

re: Recruiting Louisiana: SABAN >>>>> Les Miles

Posted by Machiavellian on 12/11/10 at 1:49 pm to GeauxAggie972
quote:
Can we just ban this Machia guy?


Why, because I give a fair counter perspective?
Jump to PostView Topicreplies0

re: Recruiting Louisiana: SABAN >>>>> Les Miles

Posted by Machiavellian on 12/11/10 at 1:48 pm to bmy
quote:
It's still a win for Miles head to head against Meyer in his own back yard and just about everyone in the country.


yes, it is. And I give credit.

But it's one win
Jump to PostView Topicreplies2

re: Recruiting Louisiana: SABAN >>>>> Les Miles

Posted by Machiavellian on 12/11/10 at 1:46 pm to c on z
quote:
Shep?


Texas didnt want him

quote:
Loston?


we stole from Clemson because he was never a Mack Brown prospect either

Remember, I'm talking about the top in-state schools being in on the players -- Just like we were in on Reed and Robinson and lost them to out of state programs
Jump to PostView Topicreplies0

re: Recruiting Louisiana: SABAN >>>>> Les Miles

Posted by Machiavellian on 12/11/10 at 1:44 pm to ProjectP2294
quote:
But you aren't proving your point in anything you say, you keep bringing up things that are tangentially related at best.

What exactly is the point you are trying to make? You keep shifting the focus of your argument every time someone proves you wrong.


Not true. My original point is that Miles and staff have not been as effective as other top SEC schools at going out of state and luring marquee players

Richt, Meyer, Saban and now Chiz are/have been doing a better job. Even Kiffin was until he left

Les and Co. probably do better than Miss St, Ole Miss, South Carolina, Arkansas and most other SEC schools... but then again, aren't we supposed to??
Jump to PostView Topicreplies2

re: Recruiting Louisiana: SABAN >>>>> Les Miles

Posted by Machiavellian on 12/11/10 at 1:39 pm to bmy
quote:
Avery Johnson


LSU legacy

Miles landing Peterson a few years back was a big deal, I'll give him that. A lot of big schools wanted PP. It was our championship season and we were able to lure him to Baton Rouge.

Les's biggest out of state recruit ever without a question (and arguably his only marquee one that the big in-state schools were in on)
Jump to PostView Topicreplies4

re: Recruiting Louisiana: SABAN >>>>> Les Miles

Posted by Machiavellian on 12/11/10 at 1:36 pm to ProjectP2294
quote:
Lee still has nothing to do with Darron Thomas' recruitment. Changing the wording of your deflection doesn't make it not a deflection.


everything I mentioned is reality, regardless if it crosses over into different debates or points

Darron was a commitment for a fairly long period of time. I doubt he all of the sudden decomitted because he found out Miles lied to him about not being able to play QB. We told Darron he was going to get a shot at QB first, just like we told Shep
Jump to PostView Topicreplies1

re: Jernigan

Posted by Machiavellian on 12/11/10 at 1:33 pm to deuce985
Jernigan is the best player left on our board

Getting him and Freak for a DT class would be as big of a recruiting coup as LSU has had in a long time IMO

If you listen to the long-time SEC coaches, they'll tell you arguably the biggest key to success in this conference is high level D-Line play, particulary from the interior
Jump to PostView Topicreplies1

re: Recruiting Louisiana: SABAN >>>>> Les Miles

Posted by Machiavellian on 12/11/10 at 1:30 pm to ProjectP2294
quote:
how many different arguments are you going to make? Whether or not he is better now has nothing to do with how his recruitment transpired. You really have trouble with logic.


Ok. Fair enough. Let's back Jefferson (a duel-threat QB like Thomas is) out of the conversation for a moment then.

Let's compare Lee, a TX QB who we took, versus Thomas, a TX QB that we had but Oregon took

How has that worked out for each respective program?
Jump to PostView Topicreplies4