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morsatun
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re: Greivis Vasquez Appreciation Thread
Posted by morsatun on 7/4/13 at 6:33 pm to touchdownjeebus
I will miss them both, but I really think they have a bright future in their respective teams. We always said that Vasquez could be either a starting point guard in a mediocre team, or a good 6 men in a play off team. Economically, I think this will be good for his carrier. If Sacramento uses the rest of the off season to get something for center, I thinks Vasquez has pretty much a guarantied starting position for the whole year. If he post similar numbers to this year he will get into a sweet deal next of season wherever he goes.
0
quote:
You really think the team is set to win with Vasquez starting?
What team? this question does not make any sense until we now how the team will look next season. We have already said many times here that if we can win with Vasquez or not depends on who else is in the team when that happens.
re: How to maximize Vasquez’s trade value.
Posted by morsatun on 6/21/13 at 7:36 pm to Whodatforlife21
If they were to pull that off, Dell should then run for US President with Monty as hist VP
re: How to maximize Vasquez’s trade value.
Posted by morsatun on 6/21/13 at 6:25 pm to Gtothemoney
It will be fine, what we do with Vasquez (even though I started this Thread) will not have that big an impact in our season. We just have to get 2 and a half good improvements and we will be fine
quote:
Drafting Burke does not mean you need to move Gravy
I agree that we would not NEED to move Vasquez, but even though having 4 guards is ideal, it may be that we have other needs in the team that could be worth addressing by sacrificing one of the 4 guards. Haven said that, I am convinced that Dell will not let Vasquez go unless he feels he is getting a really good deal
quote:
.that FA is after the draft.
Of course it is, what I mean is that by the beginning of next season we would have additional improvements via trdae and FA.
How to maximize Vasquez’s trade value.
Posted by morsatun on 6/20/13 at 7:57 pm
If the management team is leaning towards drafting Burke, and eventually trading Vasquez to maximize the return, when would be the best time to do it? I know my point is not going to be very popular among some fans, but here it is anyway.
If we are trying to get the best possible value for Vasquez, I think the strategy would be to draft Burke (assuming he is available) and keep Vasquez.
In this scenario, I would assume that we would have improved the team in other positions via trade and free agency. If that is the case, we can then let Vasquez start next season for a month or so (while Burke learns the system and gets use to the NBA), and then trade him before the dead line.
My rational here is that due to his surgery, Vasquez value right now is much lower than what it was at the end of the season. Now, if he starts for the first month of the season, we have an improved team, and a healthy Gordon we can eventually end that first month with a positive record (despite having Vasquez starting). If that is the case, then what you would be offering for trade would be a healthy “starting PG” (note that I am using quotes here), that helped a team to a positive record, with decent numbers (let’s say he has something like 9 assists and 14 ppg the first month).
In that scenario we could certainly get a much better value for him than what we can get now, and our season would not be compromised, as Burke would then take the PG position haven learned the basics of the team, and we would have an additional player (whoever we get for Vasquez) to help us.
What do you think?
If we are trying to get the best possible value for Vasquez, I think the strategy would be to draft Burke (assuming he is available) and keep Vasquez.
In this scenario, I would assume that we would have improved the team in other positions via trade and free agency. If that is the case, we can then let Vasquez start next season for a month or so (while Burke learns the system and gets use to the NBA), and then trade him before the dead line.
My rational here is that due to his surgery, Vasquez value right now is much lower than what it was at the end of the season. Now, if he starts for the first month of the season, we have an improved team, and a healthy Gordon we can eventually end that first month with a positive record (despite having Vasquez starting). If that is the case, then what you would be offering for trade would be a healthy “starting PG” (note that I am using quotes here), that helped a team to a positive record, with decent numbers (let’s say he has something like 9 assists and 14 ppg the first month).
In that scenario we could certainly get a much better value for him than what we can get now, and our season would not be compromised, as Burke would then take the PG position haven learned the basics of the team, and we would have an additional player (whoever we get for Vasquez) to help us.
What do you think?
re: If we pick Burke…?
Posted by morsatun on 6/17/13 at 10:05 pm to PatrickAlexander1
This was not intended to be a thread on picking Burke or not, that is why I wrote IF we pick him. The question was who would be starting at PG who would be backup, and when
If you are right and he starts from day one, do you think Vasquez will be cool being his backup? It is very different being the backup of a rookie, than being the backup PG of an elite player.
If we pick Burke…?
Posted by morsatun on 6/17/13 at 6:50 pm
It is starting to look like Burke is the pick. If that is the case, what would be the point guard situation next year? A few questions come to mind:
1 is Burke ready to start in the NBA straight away?
If the answer is yes, then do we keep Vasquez as backup or trade Vasquez and trust Roberts?
If the answer is yes, would Vasquez agree to be Burke's back up?
If the answer is no, can Vasquez really refuse given the fact that he has a year left in his contract?
If the answer to question 1 is no, then again do we keep Vasquez to start at the beginning and then transition into Burke? Or do we look for an additional upgrade for the PG position?
1 is Burke ready to start in the NBA straight away?
If the answer is yes, then do we keep Vasquez as backup or trade Vasquez and trust Roberts?
If the answer is yes, would Vasquez agree to be Burke's back up?
If the answer is no, can Vasquez really refuse given the fact that he has a year left in his contract?
If the answer to question 1 is no, then again do we keep Vasquez to start at the beginning and then transition into Burke? Or do we look for an additional upgrade for the PG position?
re: Can Vasquez improve enough?
Posted by morsatun on 5/26/13 at 9:35 pm to WhoDatPelican596
quote:
I'm not defensive, and I'm sorry if I'm conveying any harsh sounding emotion in my comments. I'm honestly just sharing my opinion. And its one I feel quite strongly about because if the position is not upgraded, I think that will be a huge roadblock to our rebuild
Fare enough
re: Can Vasquez improve enough?
Posted by morsatun on 5/26/13 at 8:52 pm to WhoDatPelican596
quote:
No. He can't. For the reasons I just said. He's a good backup PG in the league. And that's his ceiling. For gods sake, that's what he was drafted to be. 28th overall I believe. Drafted to be a good backup player if that. He has lived up to that expectation, but he will not move past it
people get so defensive here. I am not trying to push anyone to say or think Vasquez is or should be our starting PG next year. Nor am I implying that I think he can become a better athlete. The point I was trying to make is (I repeat one more time) If the numbers I posted can offset defensive limitations. I am not asking if people think Vasquez can get those numbers. I am asking if people would be OK with him as a starter if he posted those numbers that is all.
re: Can Vasquez improve enough?
Posted by morsatun on 5/26/13 at 8:34 pm to brmark70816
OK, this is going too much into Vasquez been able to become a better athlete or not. I just want to know, if you think that a PG (whoever it is) with Vasquez's defensive limitations, and posting the stats I posted (15 PPG, 9.5 APG, 48% FG%, 38% 3p% 3 TO pg, 13 shots PG and 0.5 hero per game, could be a decent starting PG in the NBA?
I think I may have chosen the wrong title for my post. I am not asking if people think Vasquez can improve or not. I am asking if the improvement I posted (hypothetical) would be enough to offset his defensive liability
Can Vasquez improve enough?
Posted by morsatun on 5/26/13 at 7:32 pm
In my last post there was a bit of a discussion on weather Vasquez has reach his ceiling or not. IMO he can improve in some aspects, and not in others.
If Vasquez was to be our starting PG next season and his numbers were to be:
15 PPG up from 13.9
9.5 APG up form 9.0
3 TOPG down from 3.2
0.48 FG%, up from 0.43
0.380 3p % up from 0.34
13 shots per game down from 13.3
0.5 hero ball shots per game down from about 2 per game average
And his defense is about the same as last season, would you think this would be enough to offset his defensive shortcomings?
If Vasquez was to be our starting PG next season and his numbers were to be:
15 PPG up from 13.9
9.5 APG up form 9.0
3 TOPG down from 3.2
0.48 FG%, up from 0.43
0.380 3p % up from 0.34
13 shots per game down from 13.3
0.5 hero ball shots per game down from about 2 per game average
And his defense is about the same as last season, would you think this would be enough to offset his defensive shortcomings?
quote:
Did the article describe the surgery or injury in any detail?
It says (I am translating) "to remove loos particles"
By the way I still like Vasquez a lot, I just want the team to have all the cards available during the off season that is all
I am not that worry about how slow he gets, I am worry that his trade value for this off season my go down a lot
Vasquez will have surgery in both ankles
Posted by morsatun on 5/22/13 at 9:29 pm
Just read in the Venezuela news that Vasquez will have surgery in both ankles next Friday
Who is more serviceable for next year Lopez or Vasquez?
Posted by morsatun on 5/22/13 at 9:17 pm
We all seem to agree, that both Lopez and Vasquez in their respective positions showed good progress, but also limitations. Although not ideal in most people minds, it is certainly a possibility that either one of them or both would be our starting players next season (note I am not saying that is ideal or very likely but certainly one of the possibilities). We also agree that it is possible to have a decent season with either of them being starters, as long as the other additions to the team really make a difference in comparison to this year. Now my question is which of this two players is more serviceable for next season.
Lopez:
Pros:
[LIST]
[*]Very reliable (played every game last season as starter).
[*]Good physical presence under the basket.
[*]Relatively consistent with his short/ medium range shots.
[*] Relatively cheap for what he offers
[/LIST]
Cons:
[LIST]
[*]Very slow for his position (which is more consequential if he plays together with Vasquez, as both are very slow).
[*]Not very aggressive offensively.
[*]Can’t really jump, for his size,
[*]He is weak as a rebounder.
[/LIST]
Vasquez:
Pros:
[LIST]
[*]Probably his biggest plus is how cheap he is for what he offers (2.3 mills for next year).
[*]Very passionate, hardworking attitude (he gives 110% night in and night out).
[*]High advantage over other PG (he can post up and get points that way).
[*]Relatively good court vision.
[/LIST]
Cons:
[LIST]
[*]Clearly his biggest negative is his defense. He is too slow, and has not being able to learn how to at least be less of a liability.
[*]Tends to keep the ball too long.
[*]Slows down the offense when it needs speed.
[*]Tries way too many hero shots.
[/LIST]
I think this is a close one in terms of serviceability for next season what do you think?
Lopez:
Pros:
[LIST]
[*]Very reliable (played every game last season as starter).
[*]Good physical presence under the basket.
[*]Relatively consistent with his short/ medium range shots.
[*] Relatively cheap for what he offers
[/LIST]
Cons:
[LIST]
[*]Very slow for his position (which is more consequential if he plays together with Vasquez, as both are very slow).
[*]Not very aggressive offensively.
[*]Can’t really jump, for his size,
[*]He is weak as a rebounder.
[/LIST]
Vasquez:
Pros:
[LIST]
[*]Probably his biggest plus is how cheap he is for what he offers (2.3 mills for next year).
[*]Very passionate, hardworking attitude (he gives 110% night in and night out).
[*]High advantage over other PG (he can post up and get points that way).
[*]Relatively good court vision.
[/LIST]
Cons:
[LIST]
[*]Clearly his biggest negative is his defense. He is too slow, and has not being able to learn how to at least be less of a liability.
[*]Tends to keep the ball too long.
[*]Slows down the offense when it needs speed.
[*]Tries way too many hero shots.
[/LIST]
I think this is a close one in terms of serviceability for next season what do you think?
quote:
According to Hollingers PER ratings we had two of the top 12 most productive PFs in the league chief
4. Anthony Davis
12. Ryan Anderson
I was talking about small forward, I corrected it in the original post.
We may be in trouble
Posted by morsatun on 5/21/13 at 11:18 pm
I know a lot of people are excited about the next season, and expect the Pelicans to be competitive, (may be not play off favorites, but 8 spot candidates at least). Nevertheless, no matter how much I think about it, I can see us improving, but not that much. I will explain why:
There are 3 main positions that need upgrading: small forward, Point guard and Center (in that order in my opinion, but not by much). Being realistic, we could have a relatively successful season if we substantially upgrade any two of these 3. In other words, we could do well with Aminu in the smallr forward, if we get a great center and a solid PG, we can do well with Vasquez as PG if we get a great Center and a solid small forward, and we could do well with Lopez as center if we get a great PG and a solid power forward.
Unfortunately, given our 6th pick, what we have to offer and what is available via trade, I cannot see us upgrading two of those three positions, without compromising else ware.
I elaborate:
The best we could do with our 6 is to get Burke or Oladipo (if we are really lucky). Now if we get Burke, that would mean an upgrade in PG, and he will most likely be the starter, So we than would only have either Lopez and Vasquez to offer for a good center, or Aminu and Vasquez to offer for a good small forward. I do not see anyone trading a good center or Power forward for either of those two packages.
If we take Oladipo in the draft, then we could offer Vasquez and Aminu for a good PG or Lopez and Aminu for a good center, again it seems hard to believe that a team would give us an elite player for either of these two packages (although Lopez and Aminu may just be enough).
Finally if we try to trade our sixth pick, we basically would either offer Aminu, Vasquez and the 6th to get a PG and a power 3, Lopez Vasquez and the sixth to get a center and a PG, or Aminu Lopez and the 6th to get a center and a small forward, none of this packages look good enough to me for us to get our 2 upgrades.
So in my opinion the most likely scenario is that we upgrade one of the 3 positions, and get an extra player for one of the other two but no a clear update. In which case, as I said, we may do better than last year, but most likely not make it to the playoffs.
There are 3 main positions that need upgrading: small forward, Point guard and Center (in that order in my opinion, but not by much). Being realistic, we could have a relatively successful season if we substantially upgrade any two of these 3. In other words, we could do well with Aminu in the smallr forward, if we get a great center and a solid PG, we can do well with Vasquez as PG if we get a great Center and a solid small forward, and we could do well with Lopez as center if we get a great PG and a solid power forward.
Unfortunately, given our 6th pick, what we have to offer and what is available via trade, I cannot see us upgrading two of those three positions, without compromising else ware.
I elaborate:
The best we could do with our 6 is to get Burke or Oladipo (if we are really lucky). Now if we get Burke, that would mean an upgrade in PG, and he will most likely be the starter, So we than would only have either Lopez and Vasquez to offer for a good center, or Aminu and Vasquez to offer for a good small forward. I do not see anyone trading a good center or Power forward for either of those two packages.
If we take Oladipo in the draft, then we could offer Vasquez and Aminu for a good PG or Lopez and Aminu for a good center, again it seems hard to believe that a team would give us an elite player for either of these two packages (although Lopez and Aminu may just be enough).
Finally if we try to trade our sixth pick, we basically would either offer Aminu, Vasquez and the 6th to get a PG and a power 3, Lopez Vasquez and the sixth to get a center and a PG, or Aminu Lopez and the 6th to get a center and a small forward, none of this packages look good enough to me for us to get our 2 upgrades.
So in my opinion the most likely scenario is that we upgrade one of the 3 positions, and get an extra player for one of the other two but no a clear update. In which case, as I said, we may do better than last year, but most likely not make it to the playoffs.
quote:
he's probably only repeating what Monty told him
Monty did not sounded so convinced about this in the fans interview posted in Pelicans. com today. He was specifically asked about Rivers playing PG and he said that he likes having the versatility that allows him to have Rivers at PG sometimes, but not as the main PG of the team.
GV was just interviewed and promised not to take that many shots today. Lets see if he keeps it up
quote:
How about facilitating growth in Roger Mason?
Growth in Mason? he is 33, he is what he is.
quote:
i don't care how many times he shoots....just make your shots, Gravy
so you would give him green light?
How many shots will GV take today?
Posted by morsatun on 3/18/13 at 6:50 pm
During the post-game talk yesterday Monty was asked if he was upset about GV taking 25 shots in the game, and he answered that if Gordon and Anderson are not scoring then GV has to take more shots. With Gordon out today, I wonder if GV will have green light, or will Monty keep him on a short leash?
Mistake in last game's official stats
Posted by morsatun on 3/15/13 at 12:43 am
This is not particularly relevant, but I am surprised that it can happen and no one seams to notice for the official stats.
According to the NBA stats page in the last games Vasquez scored 15 points and 14 assists. If you checked the “play by play” record, when there where 1:56 minutes lefts it says that Vasquez made a dunk shot to get to 15 points and for the game score to go 95-106. If you see the game in league pass, and you go to that period of the game, you can see that of course Vasquez did not dunked the ball, it was Davis of a Vasquez pass. So that should have been two points for Davis and an assist for Vasquez.
As a consequence the correct stats are 19 points for Davis instead of 17, and 13 points and 15 assists for Vasquez instead of 15 points and 14 assists. As I said before, this is not a big deal, but you would expect the NBA to get this things right.
According to the NBA stats page in the last games Vasquez scored 15 points and 14 assists. If you checked the “play by play” record, when there where 1:56 minutes lefts it says that Vasquez made a dunk shot to get to 15 points and for the game score to go 95-106. If you see the game in league pass, and you go to that period of the game, you can see that of course Vasquez did not dunked the ball, it was Davis of a Vasquez pass. So that should have been two points for Davis and an assist for Vasquez.
As a consequence the correct stats are 19 points for Davis instead of 17, and 13 points and 15 assists for Vasquez instead of 15 points and 14 assists. As I said before, this is not a big deal, but you would expect the NBA to get this things right.
Vasquez has not taken one shot yet
re: Point guarding the pelicans for the next two seasons
Posted by morsatun on 3/2/13 at 10:15 pm to The Future
I think you guys misunderstood what I wss trayng to say.
I am not saying Vasquez is the long term solution or the ideal player for us. I just think that in terms of strategy it is better to run with him next year and trade him the year after.
I am not saying Vasquez is the long term solution or the ideal player for us. I just think that in terms of strategy it is better to run with him next year and trade him the year after.
Point guarding the pelicans for the next two seasons
Posted by morsatun on 3/2/13 at 8:05 pm
After more than 50 games of the season I am prepare to make a prediction about the Vasquez-New Orleans relationship. I am fairly confident that Vasquez will be the starting point guard next year and then he will be traded in the 2014 off season. Here are my reasons:
Next year he will cost the team2.15 million, regardless of how much people like or dislike Vasquez I doubt that there is anyone out there that would argue that is not a bargain.
So the plan would be to expend the money this year in the other needs of the team signing one elite player, as well as a decent additional shutting guard. Next year then, which would be a transition year towards becoming a legit contender in the 2014-2015 season, Vasquez would start and Rivers will be the backup point guard with extended minutes as they will play some time together (about 32 MPG for Vasquez, and about 28 mpg for Rivers).
By doing so, you develop Rivers, develop the team around Gordon, Davis and the new elite player that has been signed and keep Vasquez value up. At the end of the 2013-1014 season you trade Vasquez after been top 5 in Assists for two consecutive years, (notice that I did not say top 5 PG just top 5 in assists) and get the chance to get either a nice player that could be a good back up PG if Austin become the PG he has the potential to become, or a good solid defensive PG.
So in 2014- 2015 you would have a well-developed solid team that can be a serious playoff contender. Notice that under this scenario we may still make the playoffs in 2013-14, but are likely to be out in the first or second round).
Next year he will cost the team2.15 million, regardless of how much people like or dislike Vasquez I doubt that there is anyone out there that would argue that is not a bargain.
So the plan would be to expend the money this year in the other needs of the team signing one elite player, as well as a decent additional shutting guard. Next year then, which would be a transition year towards becoming a legit contender in the 2014-2015 season, Vasquez would start and Rivers will be the backup point guard with extended minutes as they will play some time together (about 32 MPG for Vasquez, and about 28 mpg for Rivers).
By doing so, you develop Rivers, develop the team around Gordon, Davis and the new elite player that has been signed and keep Vasquez value up. At the end of the 2013-1014 season you trade Vasquez after been top 5 in Assists for two consecutive years, (notice that I did not say top 5 PG just top 5 in assists) and get the chance to get either a nice player that could be a good back up PG if Austin become the PG he has the potential to become, or a good solid defensive PG.
So in 2014- 2015 you would have a well-developed solid team that can be a serious playoff contender. Notice that under this scenario we may still make the playoffs in 2013-14, but are likely to be out in the first or second round).
The Gordon situation is killing us
Posted by morsatun on 2/27/13 at 11:04 am
I really think that the biggest problem we have at the moment is call Erick Gordon. I am not saying he is a bad player, but between the fact that he cannot play in back to backs, and the lack of consistency he has shown, the team has not been able to develop clear and consistent game style.
We have gone from a team that was losing because we were waiting for our superstar to come back, to a team that plays a different style every game (Depending on whether Gordon plays and how he plays).
I actually think that given the development of our players, we should be playing better more consistent ball by now, but the whole Gordon saga is just preventing us from developing further.
We have gone from a team that was losing because we were waiting for our superstar to come back, to a team that plays a different style every game (Depending on whether Gordon plays and how he plays).
I actually think that given the development of our players, we should be playing better more consistent ball by now, but the whole Gordon saga is just preventing us from developing further.
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