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Started By
Message
re: Chavis
Posted on 12/21/09 at 4:06 pm to Suntiger
Posted on 12/21/09 at 4:06 pm to Suntiger
Chavis is a great DC. His second year will have the players understanding his system, better trained, and he'll know the personal better. To the person who said we can do better, then name your DC. Jim Donnan is a freaking moron and LSU hater.
2
Posted on 12/21/09 at 4:45 pm to 7 Moves
quote:
To the person who said we can do better, then name your DC.
I think I said it in another thread, but I like George Edwards who was mentioned last year.
Chavis was the "safe" hire and better than what we had. He has SEC connection and a name everyone knew. My problem with Chavis is his soft defense and inability to get off the field on third down. We are 10th in the SEC in 3rd down efficiency above only Vandy and Kentucky. That is pathetic. In the long run it leads to your defense getting worn down (how many times did we see gut check drives at the end of games where our defense was exhaused) and less opportunities for the offense. I'm not saying the offense did anything to help itself, but we are ranked 103 overall in time of possession and 10th in the SEC above Vandy and AU. If our defense could get off the field, maybe our offense could get some consistency and have more opportunities to put up points.
I don't think that Chavis' defense made the offense fail, but it didn't help them out. I don't think it's a coincidence that all of Tenn. off coordinatiors got fired through out the years that Chavis was DC. I don't think the offense has a chance while he is there unless you have Peyton Manning and Jamal Lewis on your offense, but most teams don't.
/rant
Posted on 12/21/09 at 8:05 pm to Suntiger
Cut never got fired!
Posted on 12/21/09 at 9:51 pm to Oyster
Suntiger,
I was talking about 3rd and long. as for 3rd and short. it looked to me like we mixed our coverages up. sometimes we were in man and playing tight to the line of scrimmage. other times we were playing cover 4 and were soft on the WRs. the logic behind cover 4 (or a 4 variant) in those situations is if you're expecting run then in cov. 4 your safeties are at 9 - 10 yards and can get a flat-footed read (no peddle) so they can fit on the run in a hurry (giving you 9 in the box). if it is play action you're still in okay shape. what kills it is the 3 step game to the flats like you mentioned.
The problem with playing press man in those instances is that you can easily be taken advantage of by play-action. If they hit it on you it could be a huge play. (long ball, or short ball taken long).
In those instances where we were in cov. 4 he was playing it safe and hoping they either ran it and we stopped them, or that they ran play action and we smothered it, or that they ran the 3 step game and didn't execute (bend but don't break). He's the one with a big fat NC ring but I'm not a huge fan of this on 3rd and short either. On the other hand, I don't have a problem with it being done every now and then as a tendency breaker.
just my 2 cents.
I was talking about 3rd and long. as for 3rd and short. it looked to me like we mixed our coverages up. sometimes we were in man and playing tight to the line of scrimmage. other times we were playing cover 4 and were soft on the WRs. the logic behind cover 4 (or a 4 variant) in those situations is if you're expecting run then in cov. 4 your safeties are at 9 - 10 yards and can get a flat-footed read (no peddle) so they can fit on the run in a hurry (giving you 9 in the box). if it is play action you're still in okay shape. what kills it is the 3 step game to the flats like you mentioned.
The problem with playing press man in those instances is that you can easily be taken advantage of by play-action. If they hit it on you it could be a huge play. (long ball, or short ball taken long).
In those instances where we were in cov. 4 he was playing it safe and hoping they either ran it and we stopped them, or that they ran play action and we smothered it, or that they ran the 3 step game and didn't execute (bend but don't break). He's the one with a big fat NC ring but I'm not a huge fan of this on 3rd and short either. On the other hand, I don't have a problem with it being done every now and then as a tendency breaker.
just my 2 cents.
Posted on 12/21/09 at 10:39 pm to Suntiger
quote:
My problem with Chavis is his soft defense and inability to get off the field on third down
LSU ranked 44th in the nation in 3rd down conversions. Opponents converted 36% of the time.
While there is room for improvement, it's not a "pathetic" stat as you state. In fact, there are 7 teams in the SEC separated by no more than 3%.
The defense has been the strength of this team.
Posted on 12/21/09 at 11:08 pm to 7 Moves
quote:
Chavis is a great DC
He's not a great DC. His track record at Tenn and now here refute that. Good yes. He gives us a chance to win games. And he is a great LB pos'n coach (our LB's were "dramastically" improved).
IMO (and if Chavis stays around I hope he proves me wrong), no matter the caliber of talent we amass, his approach will never strike fear in opponents' offenses and we will never match the '03 standard.
Posted on 12/22/09 at 7:32 am to AlwysATgr
I think this year will give us a better indication of Chavis.
One thing that needs to happen is for the DL to improve. The biggest key to 3rd and longs is pressure up front. We lacked that all year long. Fix the front 4 and those 3rd down conversion numbers will go drop.
One thing that needs to happen is for the DL to improve. The biggest key to 3rd and longs is pressure up front. We lacked that all year long. Fix the front 4 and those 3rd down conversion numbers will go drop.
Posted on 12/22/09 at 8:40 am to waldo2112
Ill jump in 5 days later to say Monday on Buck and Kinkade, old Buck Ballywho was floating Chavis out there.
Posted on 12/22/09 at 9:12 am to pilsnerpusher
quote:
Cut never got fired!
The one guy who didn't and he just happened to succeed while Manning and Jamal Lewis were at Tenn as well.
quote:
pilsnerpusher
I can't argue with you too much, but from my observations Chavis mixed it up early on, but at the end of the season it was simply softer defense.
quote:
LSU ranked 44th in the nation in 3rd down conversions. Opponents converted 36% of the time.
While there is room for improvement, it's not a "pathetic" stat as you state. In fact, there are 7 teams in the SEC separated by no more than 3%.
The defense has been the strength of this team.
We were still at the bottom of the SEC and only half as good as other NCAA teams. That's bad, really bad and stiffles your offense. And the percentage points may not be that far off, but when you take the numbers over 10 games with as many possessions as there are in a game, a one or two percent diffrent makes a big difference.
Posted on 12/22/09 at 9:33 am to Suntiger
quote:
and he just happened to succeed while Manning and Jamal Lewis were at Tenn as well.
He also succeeded with Erik Ainge.
Posted on 12/22/09 at 11:17 am to schmuble
quote:
He also succeeded with Erik Ainge.
and Robert Meachem, Arron Sears and Eric Young. That's not really the point though, the point is that offenses don't really succeed with Chavis' type of defense on the field all the time. With the exception of David Cutcliffe apparently.
Posted on 12/22/09 at 12:18 pm to Suntiger
quote:
We were still at the bottom of the SEC and only half as good as other NCAA teams
Bottom of the SEC in a stat where everyone is packed together is pretty irrelevant. Certainly not "pathetic" as you said.
quote:
And the percentage points may not be that far off, but when you take the numbers over 10 games with as many possessions as there are in a game, a one or two percent diffrent makes a big difference.
The facts just don't back up your assertion. The difference boils down to an extra 5 stops over 12 games. That equates to an extra stop every 2.4 games. It's just not a discernable difference.
In short, while there is room for improvement on 3rd down conversion rate, it's not nearly as big of an issue as you pretend it to be.
And, to point to the 12th ranked scoring defense as one of the major problem with this team this year is frankly ridiculous.
Posted on 12/22/09 at 1:00 pm to moneyg
quote:+1000000000000000000
In short, while there is room for improvement on 3rd down conversion rate, it's not nearly as big of an issue as you pretend it to be.
And, to point to the 12th ranked scoring defense as one of the major problem with this team this year is frankly ridiculous.
Posted on 12/22/09 at 2:04 pm to moneyg
quote:
to point to the 12th ranked scoring defense as one of the major problem with this team this year is frankly ridiculous.
I'm not talking about the defense being a major problem. I am saying our major problem is the inability of the defense to get off the field.
quote:
The facts just don't back up your assertion. The difference boils down to an extra 5 stops over 12 games. That equates to an extra stop every 2.4 games. It's just not a discernable difference.
Teams don't get a third down every time and those extra stops we don't make add up to our defense being on the field longer and our offense not having as many opportunites. That's three less times a game our offense gets on the field. Do you not think that makes a difference? Again, I know our offense didn't do anything to sustain drives, but LSU ranked 103 in time of possession.
quote:
Bottom of the SEC in a stat where everyone is packed together is pretty irrelevant. Certainly not "pathetic" as you said.
There is no way LSU should be at the bottom of the SEC in 3rd down defense. Do you think it's a coincidence that Texas, alabama and Florida are near the top in the same stat?
Posted on 12/22/09 at 5:42 pm to Suntiger
quote:
That's three less times a game our offense gets on the field.
I don't think you understand. The difference between LSU and the 4th ranked team in the SEC is ONE extra 3rd down stop every 2.4 games. No offense, but you can't tell the difference between those two teams from a 3rd down efficiency standpoint.
quote:
Again, I know our offense didn't do anything to sustain drives, but LSU ranked 103 in time of possession.
And, 95% of this is caused by the ineffectiveness of the offense.
quote:
There is no way LSU should be at the bottom of the SEC in 3rd down defense. Do you think it's a coincidence that Texas, alabama and Florida are near the top in the same stat?
Again, you are focusing on ordinal rankings rather than the actual metric that puts them into order. The ordinal rankings are meaningless. There is very little difference between #4 and #10. You need to focus on 36% and explain why that is so poor. But, you'll likely fail because while it is not great, it certainly is not terrible. In fact, it is above average...and certainly not the major reason for our offensive problems.
This post was edited on 12/22/09 at 5:46 pm
Posted on 12/22/09 at 10:47 pm to moneyg
Some addt'l random thoughts/questions on Chavis:
- Wasn’t this year statistically pretty consistent with his track record at Tenn? I can understand why Fulmer never got rid of him. But what we saw this year is most of what we should expect next year. And that may be ok. At their worst, our D still played well enough for us to win every game this year. Nonetheless, there are other approaches to D that perform better than his (see TCU, Saban, Muschamp).
- The farther Malleveto gets in the rearview mirror, and the more we see less talented D’s outperform ours and equi-talented D’s dominate games, the more disappointed we’ll become with Chavis.
- Why do some think our DL is going to be much improved next year? If the star system has any merit to it (and although there are exceptions it’s not a bad judge of raw talent), then we’re not going to put that much better talent on the field next year or any time soon. Our DL talent is comparable to the best in CFB.
- Did anyone believe our LB’s would improve as much as they did? I give Chavis lots of credit for that.
- The whole “offense didn’t help the defense” thing works both ways. There were some definite defensive gems this year. But for every one there was also some notable breakdowns on D. OM never punted the entire first half and they only had 4-5 possession. It’s not the O’s fault that our D never forced a punt.
- Wasn’t this year statistically pretty consistent with his track record at Tenn? I can understand why Fulmer never got rid of him. But what we saw this year is most of what we should expect next year. And that may be ok. At their worst, our D still played well enough for us to win every game this year. Nonetheless, there are other approaches to D that perform better than his (see TCU, Saban, Muschamp).
- The farther Malleveto gets in the rearview mirror, and the more we see less talented D’s outperform ours and equi-talented D’s dominate games, the more disappointed we’ll become with Chavis.
- Why do some think our DL is going to be much improved next year? If the star system has any merit to it (and although there are exceptions it’s not a bad judge of raw talent), then we’re not going to put that much better talent on the field next year or any time soon. Our DL talent is comparable to the best in CFB.
- Did anyone believe our LB’s would improve as much as they did? I give Chavis lots of credit for that.
- The whole “offense didn’t help the defense” thing works both ways. There were some definite defensive gems this year. But for every one there was also some notable breakdowns on D. OM never punted the entire first half and they only had 4-5 possession. It’s not the O’s fault that our D never forced a punt.
Posted on 12/23/09 at 8:19 am to Tiger_n_ATL
quote:
FWIW, Donnan knows shite about LSU and the program
I disagree. Preseason 2007 Donnan was on with Ballywho saying his "inside sources" were telling him there was a meltdown with the LSU team and Matt Flynn and GC were not even talking at practice. He also called LSUs O soft that year.
Posted on 12/24/09 at 12:25 pm to LSUGradATL
I would think that looking at the size of his beer gut he would love it in Louisiana.
Posted on 12/25/09 at 11:43 pm to waldo2112
If Chavis expressed interest privately to UGA or even publically, then fire his arse and get somebody who wants to be at LSU. I didn't like bend but don't break philosophy of defense anyway.
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