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Started By
Message
Odd goings on at the Jerusalem Temple AD30 to AD70.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:52 pm
Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:52 pm
On the Jewish Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur), there were several rituals meant to show whether God accepted Israel’s sacrifices for sin. These rituals are described in the Talmud, which is a large collection of Jewish teachings and discussions. It was written down between about AD 200–500, but it preserves much earlier oral traditions, going back to the time of the Second Temple.
One ritual involved two goats. Lots were drawn to decide which goat was “for the Lord” (to be sacrificed) and which was the “scapegoat” (sent into the wilderness, symbolically carrying Israel’s sins away). Drawing the lot in the right hand was considered a good sign that God accepted the offering.
According to the Talmud (Yoma 39a), for about 40 years before the destruction of the Second Temple, the lot never came up in the right hand. Year after year, it always came up in the left. If the draw were random, the odds of that happening 40 times in a row are about 1 in a trillion.
There were three other signs mentioned for the same period
A crimson ribbon tied to the scapegoat, which was believed to turn white when sins were forgiven, stopped turning white.
The western lamp of the menorah, which normally stayed lit as a sign of God’s presence, kept going out.
The massive Temple doors were reported to open by themselves, which was seen as a warning sign.
All four of these changes are recorded together in Jewish sources, not Christian ones.
The Second Temple was destroyed by the Romans in AD 70. Forty years earlier puts the beginning of these signs around AD 30. Historians generally place the crucifixion of Jesus between AD 30 and 33, right in the middle of that window.
In Jewish thinking, these signs all pointed to one thing: God was no longer accepting the Temple sacrifices in the same way. In Christian theology, Jesus’ crucifixion is understood as a once-for-all sacrifice for sin, which would make animal sacrifices obsolete.
None of this proves anything by itself. But it is striking that Jewish sources themselves describe a long-term spiritual change, centered on the exact period when Christianity claims that the meaning of sacrifice fundamentally changed.
At the very least, it’s a historical puzzle worth thinking about.
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Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:57 pm to RiverCityTider
Very interesting, but it's the first I have heard about it, as I imagine it's pretty recent news to you as well. Where did you run across these stories? I'd kinda like to do a deep dive into it myself. Just considering how the veil of the temple was rent at the crucifixion is enough to send chills down the spine of anyone who understands what that meant.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 8:57 pm to RiverCityTider
Very interesting.
And, by the way, God still demands Sacrifice, but not animal sacrifice. We now have the Sacrifice of the Lamb of God who takes away the Sins of the World.
The Todah will be the only Sacrifice that will last until the End of Time. The Todah Sacrifice was and is a Sacrifice of Thanksgiving.
We will continue this Sacrifice of Thanksgiving until the End of Time.
This Sacrifice is not only symbolic, it must be a real Sacrifice.
And, by the way, God still demands Sacrifice, but not animal sacrifice. We now have the Sacrifice of the Lamb of God who takes away the Sins of the World.
The Todah will be the only Sacrifice that will last until the End of Time. The Todah Sacrifice was and is a Sacrifice of Thanksgiving.
We will continue this Sacrifice of Thanksgiving until the End of Time.
This Sacrifice is not only symbolic, it must be a real Sacrifice.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 9:08 pm to Champagne
quote:
God still demands Sacrifice
Actually, He prefers obedience over sacrifice.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 9:09 pm to Swamp Angel
I woke up at 3:01AM and this video was playing on my television.
LINK
I have been doing a deep dive back into Christianity lately and reconsidering it after putting it on the back burner for many years.
So i found it somewhat interesting and verified the authenticity of the sources today and wrote the piece above.
LINK
I have been doing a deep dive back into Christianity lately and reconsidering it after putting it on the back burner for many years.
So i found it somewhat interesting and verified the authenticity of the sources today and wrote the piece above.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 9:11 pm to RiverCityTider
Jesus predicted the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple, famously stating that "not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down," a prophecy recorded in Matthew 24:1-2, Mark 13:1-2, and Luke 21:5-7, and fulfilled in 70 AD when Roman forces destroyed the city and temple after a Jewish revolt.
During the Roman destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD, the intense fire melted the gold decorations, causing the molten metal to seep into the cracks between the stones, and the Romans later dismantled the structure stone by stone to pry out the gold, fulfilling prophecies that "not one stone would be left upon another."
During the Roman destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD, the intense fire melted the gold decorations, causing the molten metal to seep into the cracks between the stones, and the Romans later dismantled the structure stone by stone to pry out the gold, fulfilling prophecies that "not one stone would be left upon another."
Posted on 1/6/26 at 9:12 pm to RiverCityTider
The Seed of Abraham, Christians, do not follow the Talmud
Posted on 1/6/26 at 9:12 pm to RiverCityTider
quote:
it’s a historical puzzle worth thinking about.
I'm a strict constructionist on the Constitution, and bring similar views to the Talmud. There is the Old Testament, and then a bunch of stuff that was "interpreted" out of it in the Talmud by Rabbis over more than just 200-500AD. Me no like. There is a reason only 40% of American Jews are Kosher. Everyone likes bacon, and a burger needs cheese. Dairy cows and meat cows are different breeds, so you literally can't "boil a kid in it's mother's milk."
The most important Yom Kippur ritual, at least to me, is severe introspection on what I've done wrong this year, other than annoy OT posters.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 9:17 pm to Champagne
quote:
God still demands Sacrifice, but not animal sacrifice. We now have the Sacrifice of the Lamb of God who takes away the Sins of the World.
Yes. Jesus came to fulfill the law.
Romans 10:4 states, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."
Posted on 1/6/26 at 9:18 pm to RiverCityTider
Thanks for the link. I think it would behoove all of us to do a truly deep dive into Christianity with a thorough study of both the Old and New Testaments as well as a comparison to recorded history and continuing archaeological discoveries. It's pretty fascinating and more tan a little convincing/convicting.
Again, thanks much for the link.
Again, thanks much for the link.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 9:21 pm to RiverCityTider
quote:
According to the Talmud
Posted on 1/6/26 at 9:26 pm to RiverCityTider
Fun fact... Gold from the sack of Jerusalem in 70 a.d. funded the construction of the Flavian Amphitheatre, later know as the Coliseum, because it was built on the site of a colossal statue of Nero.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 10:28 pm to mytigger
quote:
Actually, He prefers obedience over sacrifice.
God's Son was obedient and it pleased God greatly. God's Son is Sacrificed - the Lamb of God is Sacrificed.
There's no longer any need for the Jerusalem Temple to hold Sacrifices again because Jesus's Sacrifice exists outside of time and is Present outside of time. It wasn't in the "past" in the sense of Time as we know it.
The Sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross is Present right now.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 10:41 pm to RiverCityTider
The culmination of information at one’s fingertips and the resources to understand that information makes this an interesting to be alive.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 10:52 pm to mytigger
quote:
Actually, He prefers obedience over sacrifice.
This is a false dichotomy or at least not a completely proper use of the concept of sacrifice. The verse in 1 Samuel was a rebuke of Saul for trying to buy God’s favor rather than trusting and obeying God.
God always requires blood. It’s essential to His categorically perfect Justice.
But no longer the blood of animals.
Hebrews 9:12
“…he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.”
Posted on 1/6/26 at 11:02 pm to RiverCityTider
How many more years til Jews think maybe we killed that Messiah we’re waiting on. 2000 years is a long time.
Posted on 1/6/26 at 11:05 pm to Champagne
Wha a bunch of fricking mumbo jumbo. It is just us.
Posted on 1/7/26 at 12:04 am to RiverCityTider
link?
Posted on 1/7/26 at 4:28 am to leeman101
quote:
During the Roman destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD,
Laid waste to it. The Jews pissed the Romans off so fricking bad, that they completely deforested 20 square miles around Jerusalem. Every tree, brush, shrub, piece of wood they could find to create siege works around the city. If you were captured trying to escape the city. the Romans immediately crucified you in full view of those under siege, by the hundreds.
At the time of Christ, the area was lush and fruitful, remember the garden of Gethsemane. It’s taken 2,000 years to regrow what once was there, mostly due to modern horticulture in the 20th C.
quote:
In essence, after the Roman destruction, the area took centuries to recover naturally, with the green, forested landscape many associate with Israel today being largely the result of intensive, organized planting efforts in the last 100+ years, not just a quick regrowth from 70 AD.
Posted on 1/7/26 at 5:04 am to Champagne
quote:
Romans 6:10 (ESV) 10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God.
quote:
Hebrews 7:27 (ESV) 27 He has no need, like those high priests, to offer sacrifices daily, first for his own sins and then for those of the people, since he did this once for all when he offered up himself.
quote:
Hebrews 9:12 (ESV) 12 he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.
quote:
Hebrews 9:26 (ESV) 26 for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
quote:
Hebrews 9:28 (ESV) 28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.
quote:
Hebrews 10:10 (ESV) 10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
quote:
1 Peter 3:18 (ESV) 18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,
The Bible says repeatedly that Christ died once for all and is now seated at the right hand of God (Col. 3:1). He is not subject to being called down and sacrificed again and again by Roman Catholic priests (imagine the audacity). Put your faith in Christ alone, not his imagined presence in a piece of bread.
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