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Started By
Message
Need some help with age and score
Posted on 10/3/16 at 11:31 pm
Posted on 10/3/16 at 11:31 pm
Last year I let way to many nice deer walk due to a misunderstanding with the land owners about what they considered young deer. Had 2 140 inch 10pt within 30 yards but let them walk only to have them shot by the land owners. 2 weeks later the only deer I was willing to shoot was poached by some of my students. Needless to say I'm going to be a bit less selective this year. I'll still have my cutoff at 3.5 probably but wanted some help with ageing a few. I only think 1 has the potential to get into the 130's but know I'm ready to kill this year. It will be all bow except for a total of 5 days of slug/muzzle loader which I probably won't touch anyway.
Smallest one possible, I'm guessing 2.5 but might be a poor 3.5.
I'm guessing 3.5 but could be off. Guessing he will end up in the 120s max.
Couple of 3.5 year olds, always together The one one the right could have been nice but as you can see in the second pic is all kinds of broken already. Guessing the one on the left ends up 120s max.
This guy I have no idea on age. Body looks young and no mass to the rack but the width and length want me to put him older. Really need help on this one, I have no idea on score.
Smallest one possible, I'm guessing 2.5 but might be a poor 3.5.
I'm guessing 3.5 but could be off. Guessing he will end up in the 120s max.
Couple of 3.5 year olds, always together The one one the right could have been nice but as you can see in the second pic is all kinds of broken already. Guessing the one on the left ends up 120s max.
This guy I have no idea on age. Body looks young and no mass to the rack but the width and length want me to put him older. Really need help on this one, I have no idea on score.
7
Posted on 10/4/16 at 12:21 am to smoked hog
2nd deer is my favorite. Looks like a 130s with the tine length.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:30 am to smoked hog
First three bucks look 2.5 to me. The rest are 3.5 except for the one with the doe and broken g2...he may be 4.5.
Imho
Imho
Posted on 10/4/16 at 6:18 am to smoked hog
The one on the bottom is one I'd let walk.... If you're going to manage. May want to sit down with the land owners and make a "kill list"
Posted on 10/4/16 at 8:35 am to Quatre Pot
I would love to seriously manage but the owners have made it pretty clear that if it gets past 2.5 it has made it far enough. Throw in one of the neighbors who routinely will drive 900 yards off the nearest road to drive through my food plots looking for deer, at night. In the last 2 years I've helped them all get personal record deer, but they can't see that we have potential past 140 
. I'm just not as good with ageing as I want to be and wanted to bounce the ages against people who know a lot more than me. The bottom one especially, he kind of has me stumped.
. I'm just not as good with ageing as I want to be and wanted to bounce the ages against people who know a lot more than me. The bottom one especially, he kind of has me stumped. Posted on 10/4/16 at 9:54 am to smoked hog
I'd guess that bottom deer at 2.5 considering that you are hunting ag land. Even on my pine tree lease we have 3.5 year olds with thicker bodies than he has.
For example, this deer is 3.5
For example, this deer is 3.5
This post was edited on 10/4/16 at 9:57 am
Posted on 10/4/16 at 9:56 am to smoked hog
Deer #2 and the Broken off one are the only ones I'd consider taking.
Your situation sucks though, cuz that last buck has some real potential if he can be kept around for a year or two
Your situation sucks though, cuz that last buck has some real potential if he can be kept around for a year or two
Posted on 10/4/16 at 12:21 pm to smoked hog
JMO but the two bucks standing together are at least 4.5 years old. They won't get any better. My place has very similar antler genetics to yours.
The bottom deer very well may be 2.5 and if so will be an absolute stud next year.
The bottom deer very well may be 2.5 and if so will be an absolute stud next year.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 12:37 pm to reveille
I'm pretty sure this was the last tall 8 at the end of last year.
If it is he had to be at least 2.5 then.
Here is another angle of him. Is there any way he more than 3.5?
If it is he had to be at least 2.5 then.
Here is another angle of him. Is there any way he more than 3.5?
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:11 pm to smoked hog
some of you guys get too caught up with scores and age and crap. If you like it, shoot it. You only live one time, hunting season is short every year. If you are happy, take it. Thats the way ive see it. I have seen all too many times (even by myself one yr) letting deer walk only to have neighbor shoot them. Unless you have a high fence or thousands of acres you can not manage deer herds and let them grow like you see on tv.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 3:50 pm to smoked hog
quote:
I'm pretty sure this was the last tall 8 at the end of last year.
To me, those look like two separate deer.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 11:42 pm to PLaneTiger
Can I ask why? Not trying to argue just learn. With the tine length and spread plus lack of brows I just assumed it would be him. We don't have many with those features.
Our patterns change pretty drastically once we cut beans, all these pics have been in the last 5 days so I may be missing several.
Our patterns change pretty drastically once we cut beans, all these pics have been in the last 5 days so I may be missing several.
Posted on 10/5/16 at 12:18 am to smoked hog
So my first question is how much land do you have to manage?
Next question is why don't you get proof that the neighbor or students are tresspassing and bust his arse or confront him/her/them about it? I really can't stand that type of behavior. It's a respect thing.
You have to really convince the landowners about how you feel about the potential of the property. They sound like they just like to have fun and hunt and kill. Which is perfectly fine and their land their choice.
Sounds like you have a want to get a deer of a nice older buck. I don't want to disappoint but it ain't gonna happen when they are killing 2.5 year olds and you got poaching problems. So you need to decide what you want to do and only you can make that decision.
I personally try not to shoot anything under 4.5 years if I can help it. That's just me and I have let a few walk that others have shot them as "mature" deer. I only had one that I can say I truly regret letting walk and it got shot the next week. It was 3.5(jawbone confirmed) 17" wide 21" and 23"beam. Bout made me sick when I saw it because I was just looking at the body and figured it was late season he would probably make it. But I am not losing sleep over it. I would rather smoke a doe any day of the week than shoot a buck that is not mature and roll up to the camp looking like a idiot. I just don't have a hard on for killing a young buck because I can get the rush of the kill on a doe.
1. 2.5
2. 2.5
3. 2.5
4. 3.5,4.5 would take both if available in your case.
5,6. 3.5 if you can convince the neighbor and the landowners to let him walk. Do it. If not shoot it your not gonna change the gene pool that much in your time on the property.
Wanted to add that we have been fun/gun hunting for the last 25 years and just recently went to bow only. It is awsome. Shot a coyote last weekend and it just feels good to sling a arrow. It's really easy to shoot a gun comparatively.
Next question is why don't you get proof that the neighbor or students are tresspassing and bust his arse or confront him/her/them about it? I really can't stand that type of behavior. It's a respect thing.
You have to really convince the landowners about how you feel about the potential of the property. They sound like they just like to have fun and hunt and kill. Which is perfectly fine and their land their choice.
Sounds like you have a want to get a deer of a nice older buck. I don't want to disappoint but it ain't gonna happen when they are killing 2.5 year olds and you got poaching problems. So you need to decide what you want to do and only you can make that decision.
I personally try not to shoot anything under 4.5 years if I can help it. That's just me and I have let a few walk that others have shot them as "mature" deer. I only had one that I can say I truly regret letting walk and it got shot the next week. It was 3.5(jawbone confirmed) 17" wide 21" and 23"beam. Bout made me sick when I saw it because I was just looking at the body and figured it was late season he would probably make it. But I am not losing sleep over it. I would rather smoke a doe any day of the week than shoot a buck that is not mature and roll up to the camp looking like a idiot. I just don't have a hard on for killing a young buck because I can get the rush of the kill on a doe.
1. 2.5
2. 2.5
3. 2.5
4. 3.5,4.5 would take both if available in your case.
5,6. 3.5 if you can convince the neighbor and the landowners to let him walk. Do it. If not shoot it your not gonna change the gene pool that much in your time on the property.
Wanted to add that we have been fun/gun hunting for the last 25 years and just recently went to bow only. It is awsome. Shot a coyote last weekend and it just feels good to sling a arrow. It's really easy to shoot a gun comparatively.
This post was edited on 10/5/16 at 12:23 am
Posted on 10/5/16 at 8:55 am to GuyonaBuffalo
quote:
So my first question is how much land do you have to manage
This landowner has give or take 5k acres of ag land. The problem is bedding areas. We have food for an army of deer but our limiting factor is bedding areas. For every 1000 acres of land we might have 40 acres of permanent wooded areas. Most of that is prone to flood multiple times per year.
quote:
Next question is why don't you get proof that the neighbor or students are trespassing and bust his arse or confront him/her/them about it?
Poachers, 3 of them, were ticketed within 24 hours. DA posted it on social media and thought no one would recognize a 145+ inch mainframe 8 with matching kickers and split brow tine.
Neighbor is a tough story, landowners sons are best friends, families go way back kind of thing. Their farms actually are kind of interspersed land in the same area. For years they didn't care if that group road hunted, did massive drives with atvs or generally just ride around and drink beer. When they were told to stay away from those few areas I hunt things didn't go over well. They have gotten a bit better but now just try to stay away from my cameras.
quote:
You have to really convince the landowners about how you feel about the potential of the property. They sound like they just like to have fun and hunt and kill. Which is perfectly fine and their land their choice
It is a work in progress. 3 years ago they would only hunt the 2 of the 5 day gun season we have in this zone. And then only massive drives shooting anything that was brown. That year I killed a giant bodied 5 yo 10 pt with a bow in a patch of woods they thought wouldn't hold anything bigger than a squirrel and caught their interest.
2 years ago the oldest son decided to start a little and shot small 2.5 year old 8pt but told me later he regretted killing it. They have a hill farm for small deer.
Last year I passed on a 3yo 140 inch buck multiple times but put the oldest in my stand where he was able to take it as his best ever. Neighbors were asked to avoid doing drives on the places we were going to be hunting those days.
This year both sons are talking to me about a few of their other farms that we need to start scouting. They even want to contribute a few stands and have asked if I could find a place for their 70 grandpa to hunt. He can't walk the hills anymore but we could drive him to a few of the stands. They both have used the term management and have said they don't want to shoot any of the small 1.5 yo 6pts we have or the 2.5 yo 8pts. I've been showing them the development of some from 2.5 to 3.5. Neighbors have now been told to stay off all property on drives and to quit road hunting this area.
I'm hoping this trend continues for a few more years. Would love to get it to 4.5 or better eventually but 3.5 or better is a heck of a lot better than what I started with
This post was edited on 10/5/16 at 10:30 am
Posted on 10/5/16 at 9:02 am to smoked hog
2 different deer, not the same carry over characteristic at all.
Posted on 10/5/16 at 9:07 am to smoked hog
Sounds like your in a shitty situation between landowners and ignorant rules. I would either shoot what the heck I wanted too and deal with the consequence or get off the lease. Not like you fixing to down a B&C buck or have any thing develop to that level with your neighbors smoking everything and club rules on age that deter trophy development
Posted on 10/5/16 at 9:16 am to smoked hog
If you are wanting to manage for age, you need to put the buck on the left in the 4th picture as the top of the list. He shows all the typical signs of a mature deer. All of the other deer are no older than 3 1/2 with most being 2 1/2.
If there is any deer in that group that I would no doubt let walk it is the last 8 point, he is only a 2 1/2 year old deer and has the frame and tine length to be a really special 8 point in a few years. Good luck.
If there is any deer in that group that I would no doubt let walk it is the last 8 point, he is only a 2 1/2 year old deer and has the frame and tine length to be a really special 8 point in a few years. Good luck.
This post was edited on 10/5/16 at 9:17 am
Posted on 10/5/16 at 10:35 am to smoked hog
Sounds like your headed in a really good direction. Like you say it may take a little while but persistence on education about age distribution on the property is where your going to change their mind. Also see if they would be willing to do timber harvest on a few small places or let you go in and hinge cut some trash trees in different areas for bedding, if that is available. It sounds like it's not a foriegn concept to them but they just haven't figured out how to implement it yet. 5k acres is more than enough property to manage a population. We have 2900 acres bordered by another camp on three sides with 3000 acres. We have the occasional meetings and discuss what we are shooting for and our goals for harvests. we know hey have children in their camp that are gonna shoot and that is great. Gotta get the young ones into the sport. They are a gun club and only have a few bow hunters during the bow season and with us being bow year round we are hoping that will encourage the deer to remain on the property at least until the rut. Ofcourse at that point all bets are off. Good luck.
Posted on 10/5/16 at 12:12 pm to smoked hog
quote:
Can I ask why? Not trying to argue just learn. With the tine length and spread plus lack of brows I just assumed it would be him. We don't have many with those features.
This is just my opinion, but brow tines usually carry over pretty similarly from year to year. In those pictures, the one from last year has a pretty dramatic curve in his left brow and the deer from this year has essentially a straight brow.
Also, the frames on those deer look pretty different to my eye.
Posted on 10/5/16 at 3:49 pm to PLaneTiger
New to the whole group of hunters thing. Pretty much self taught hunter who has only deer hunted for the last 5 years or so. Until last year never really had to worry about organizing with other hunters. Can't really complain, I hunt for free and from my front door to my stand is less than 15 minutes. I just do most of the scouting/prep.
Kind of thinking about printing a few pics of all deer on cam and trying to have a sit down meeting to create a kill/don't kill list. Their grandpa and my 7 year old being exempt. I would love to let most of those deer walk this year and just swat does or the odd new rut bucks. I just don't want another year of watching good bucks hoping they become great only to have everyone else killing again while I eat tag soup.
Does this sound like a reasonable plan or am I passing in the wind.
Kind of thinking about printing a few pics of all deer on cam and trying to have a sit down meeting to create a kill/don't kill list. Their grandpa and my 7 year old being exempt. I would love to let most of those deer walk this year and just swat does or the odd new rut bucks. I just don't want another year of watching good bucks hoping they become great only to have everyone else killing again while I eat tag soup.
Does this sound like a reasonable plan or am I passing in the wind.
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