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Message
re: Official**: LIV Golf will not receive ranking points per head of OWGR
Posted on 10/10/23 at 5:37 pm to JimTiger72
Posted on 10/10/23 at 5:37 pm to JimTiger72
quote:
It seems like Peter Dawson agrees with my silly point.
quote:
uhhh.....
0
Posted on 10/12/23 at 5:42 am to Swagga
quote:
BBonds, Mr.LSU, and others on here are going to really lash out now.
the LIV guys will be just fine cashing their millions, missing majors for a year or two then be back on tour. You heard about the merger, right? Golf is entertainment. More golf is fun for me. Y’all are wound a little too tight. The OWGR board looks bad here, though. There are many tournaments that are 54 holes and/or are invite only with no cut that award points. That is just a fact. Selective enforcement.
by the way….who is on that OWGR board???? 
This post was edited on 10/12/23 at 5:45 am
Posted on 10/12/23 at 5:46 am to Dawgsontop34
quote:
There’s no other Tour that has unearned contracts or opportunities that haven’t been defined.
A player may receive up to 7 sponsor exemptions annually on the PGA tour.
Posted on 10/12/23 at 7:05 am to BBONDS25
quote:
The OWGR board looks bad here, though. There are many tournaments that are 54 holes and/or are invite only with no cut that award points. That is just a fact. Selective enforcement. by the way….who is on that OWGR board????
If you read the letter that is not why they were denied.
Posted on 10/12/23 at 7:50 am to BBONDS25
quote:They alls even lretty upset about the decision, sure seems like they care ….
LIV guys will be just fine cashing their millions,
quote:You look bad here. Maybe you should read, and you will see this wasn’t the reason
The OWGR board looks bad here, though. There are many tournaments that are 54 holes and/or are invite only with no cut that award points.
And the argument from some liv players is purely idiotic. They have said “you should rank golfers no matter where they play”. That’s absurd. They are arguing for member-members, member-guest, etc to be ranked .
All LIV has to do is exist in the basic framework and they can get ranked. It isn’t difficult at all Their attitude is ridiculous and it’s kinda shocking how many people support it. “People need to bend existing rules to appease me”
If you read, they have been given a very clear and easy way to get ranking points. They are trying to ignore that and just complain instead of adapting
This is a direct quote from Gooch
quote:How fricking ridiculous is this
”Their job is to rank players all around the world; it’s not players’ and tours’ jobs to conform to what they decide is worth getting ranked, or how you’re able to get ranked. It’s their job to figure out who the best players in the world are”
It’s absurd to think the above is possible, and absolute hubris to expect it LIV: Please let us join your system. Here is our application.
OWGR: Your format doesn’t meet the criteria, but here are some suggestions so you can get OWGR points in the future.
LIV: Well, your system sucks, and is irrelevant anyways
This post was edited on 10/12/23 at 8:51 am
Posted on 10/12/23 at 8:56 am to lsupride87
I feel like the argument is very simple. Why are the LIV guys considered some of the best players in the world? Because they earned their way onto their tours by qualifying, had to keep their status on these tours, earned their way into majors by qualifying, then they won the majors. Everything these guys have accomplished was done through a tiered system to identify the best. Now, that system is gone. Sure, it's easy to say Cam Smith is still a top player in the world now, but how far down the line can we keep saying that?
I can't remember where I saw it, but an argument was posed that a league is started with Rory, Rahm, Hovland, and Scheffler. They are the only 4 people on the tour, and nobody is ever added or dropped. How many years would it take to start questioning their status as top players in the world if they got automatic points for every win they have on this tour? Obviously, this is a very simplified version of LIV, but I think it gets down to the route issue with giving OWGR points to a closed tour.
I can't remember where I saw it, but an argument was posed that a league is started with Rory, Rahm, Hovland, and Scheffler. They are the only 4 people on the tour, and nobody is ever added or dropped. How many years would it take to start questioning their status as top players in the world if they got automatic points for every win they have on this tour? Obviously, this is a very simplified version of LIV, but I think it gets down to the route issue with giving OWGR points to a closed tour.
This post was edited on 10/12/23 at 12:26 pm
Posted on 10/12/23 at 8:58 am to DestrehanTiger
It’s absurd to think the OWGR is supposed to rank everyone with no standards. Absurd
So I guess they should assign points to the top college guys somehow? I mean clearly Aberg was one of the top 150 players in the world the last few years. Let’s say he didn’t play on any tour, I guess they should just find a way to give him points?
You have a local high school phenomenon shooting 65s all the time in high school events. Rank him too right Gooch?
So I guess they should assign points to the top college guys somehow? I mean clearly Aberg was one of the top 150 players in the world the last few years. Let’s say he didn’t play on any tour, I guess they should just find a way to give him points?
You have a local high school phenomenon shooting 65s all the time in high school events. Rank him too right Gooch?
This post was edited on 10/12/23 at 9:03 am
Posted on 10/12/23 at 12:16 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
A player may receive up to 7 sponsor exemptions annually on the PGA tour.
Right. You just can’t keep playing if you’re not qualified. You only get 7 chances. On LIV, you get unlimited.
Again, I feel like LIV players should be ranked but it just kind of feels like the phrase “Well, if it isn’t the consequences of my own actions” sums it up.
Posted on 10/12/23 at 12:24 pm to Dawgsontop34
quote:And they can be. OWGR laid it out for them. LIV IS CHOOSING not to be ranked, not the other way around
Again, I feel like LIV players should be ranked
They claim to want to be ranked, but all their actions say otherwise
Liv: I want a loan
Bank: ok we need a down payment and proof of insurance
LIv: OMG why can’t I get a loan. Banks are obsolete
This post was edited on 10/12/23 at 12:26 pm
Posted on 10/12/23 at 1:40 pm to Dawgsontop34
quote:
Right. You just can’t keep playing if you’re not qualified. You only get 7 chances. On LIV, you get unlimited.
7 chances per year. How many LIV tourneys were there this year?
Posted on 10/12/23 at 1:41 pm to lsupride87
quote:
So I guess they should assign points to the top college guys somehow? I mean clearly Aberg was one of the top 150 players in the world the last few years. Let’s say he didn’t play on any tour, I guess they should just find a way to give him points?
I know math seems hard. There are programs out there that can do it for you. Why pretend it would be so difficult?
Posted on 10/12/23 at 1:48 pm to BBONDS25
quote:14. 100% more. 48 guys basically got 14 sponsor exemptions
7 chances per year. How many LIV tourneys were there this year?
Can you show me a single player on the PGA tour that received even 3 sponsored exemptions?
Posted on 10/12/23 at 1:49 pm to BBONDS25
quote:So you are officially of the opinion every single person who plays golf should be ranked. Got it
I know math seems hard. There are programs out there that can do it for you. Why pretend it would be so difficult?
Going to be fun watching them add points Tommy Friday group
This post was edited on 10/12/23 at 1:50 pm
Posted on 10/12/23 at 1:50 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
7 chances per year. How many LIV tourneys were there this year?
Twice as many, and all of LIV except 1 spot is invitation-only as opposed to the Tour in which all spots but a handful of sponsor invites are part of the open platform.
Anyone with two marbles running around in their head could see this coming, and I and several others on here told you LIV boyz months ago that this was THE problem. Not the 54 hole format. Not the shotgun starts. Not the limited fields. Not the Saudi backing. None of that. It is almost entirely due to the fact that LIV is a closed system except that one token spot they give to the Asian tour.
They can't open their system because they've guaranteed all these falling away fogeys like Poulter, Mickelson, McDowell, and on and on loads and loads of cash and cannot let them fall out of the system and still have to pay them.
That will still be the case even if the managing entity merger were to go through.
Posted on 10/12/23 at 2:33 pm to lsupride87
quote:
So you are officially of the opinion every single person who plays golf should be ranked. Got it
Good lord. Beat the hell out of that straw man. If you have to assign “arguments” (especially absurd arguments) to the person you are debating that were never made….perhaos you should re-think your position.
This post was edited on 10/12/23 at 2:35 pm
Posted on 10/12/23 at 2:36 pm to lsupride87
quote:
100% more. 48 guys basically got 14 sponsor exemptions
Got it. So the number where you draw the line is somewhere between 7 and 14. That’s why OWGR shouldn’t be given points. Makes sense. A lot more sense than you claiming anyone that wants them getting points also wants their wolf game partners getting points.
This post was edited on 10/12/23 at 2:37 pm
Posted on 10/12/23 at 2:47 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
Got it. So the number where you draw the line is somewhere between 7 and 14.
I believe a more appropriate figure would be that about 5%-8% of the spots in PGA tour tournaments are filled by sponsor exemptions while 98% of the spots in LIV tournaments are "sponsor exemptions".
This post was edited on 10/12/23 at 2:50 pm
Posted on 10/12/23 at 2:50 pm to DestrehanTiger
quote:
believe a more appropriate figure would be that about 5%-7% of the spots in PGA tour tournaments are filled by sponsor exemptions while 98% of the spots in LIV tournaments are sponsor exemptions.
Why does that matter? The example used was a prince’s relative getting invited to LIv and earning WGR points. The argument is silly. There is no reason the world rankings guys couldn’t figure out a formula that would be equitable. They do for several non traditional tournaments already.
Posted on 10/12/23 at 2:55 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
Why does that matter? The example used was a prince’s relative getting invited to LIv and earning WGR points. The argument is silly. There is no reason the world rankings guys couldn’t figure out a formula that would be equitable.
Because the entire reason we know that the guys on LIV are/were good at some point is because they earned their way into tournaments over a long period of time until they reached the top and beat others at the top. Fast forward to 15 years from now. If LIV is still around, how do we know if someone they added is good? More than likely it is because they were on these other tours first where they earned their way to the top. How do we know that this prince isn't good? Maybe he is incredible and would be the best. However, you are dismissing him for a reason. He hasn't done anything to prove his prowess in recognized tournaments.
I'd be more willing to accept that these non-traditional tournaments lose their OWGR points than decide that a tour where every single tournament is non-traditional should get points.
This post was edited on 10/12/23 at 3:00 pm
Posted on 10/12/23 at 3:05 pm to BBONDS25
Again, it is not the job of OWGR to figure out how to make it work. They have made it clear why LIV was denied. Now it is up to LIV to conform if they want inclusion.
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