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Started By
Message
Lyle MacDonald dismantles Mike Israetel
Posted on 1/23/25 at 8:04 am
Posted on 1/23/25 at 8:04 am
Anyone see this? 3 hours long but its juicy.
4
Posted on 1/23/25 at 8:28 am to Tiger Ryno
Cliff notes??
Posted on 1/23/25 at 9:14 am to stoov
(Irealized in the middle of writing this that I actually watched the Greg Doucette/Lyle MacDonald version of this video, but since LM is involved here as well I bet he says the same things, just FYI, I watched a different LM video critiquing Mike Israetel)
I watched most of it while working out in my garage, so I wasn't really "watching it closely" but here's what I recall.....
The main message they want you to take away is that "Dr. Mike" is a bad body builder, as in, he's bad at his own personal contest prep and getting ready to be competitive for the stage. There's also plenty of shite talk about some excuses Mike has made and they provide evidence (Mike lays a lot of blame on someone that did a horrible job applying his contest tanning solution), so it seemed like there was some axe to grind in there as well. Not surprised with any of that and it's all relevant because Mike is the biggest public face of Renaissance Periodization, which is a business that sells "coaching" after all, coaching for bodybuilders, amateur and professional. Overall, they just wanted to make Mike look bad and take him down a peg or two, I have no feelings one way or the other. I just put this shite on for background noise while I train.
Most of the talk is about how he has a history of being poorly prepared for his contests and that he coaches himself, and LM was taking him to task for not either A)doing a better job prepping by not getting too fat during his bulks and for B)not hiring a competent coach to prepare him for contests instead of thinking he can do it for himself.
I watched most of it while working out in my garage, so I wasn't really "watching it closely" but here's what I recall.....
The main message they want you to take away is that "Dr. Mike" is a bad body builder, as in, he's bad at his own personal contest prep and getting ready to be competitive for the stage. There's also plenty of shite talk about some excuses Mike has made and they provide evidence (Mike lays a lot of blame on someone that did a horrible job applying his contest tanning solution), so it seemed like there was some axe to grind in there as well. Not surprised with any of that and it's all relevant because Mike is the biggest public face of Renaissance Periodization, which is a business that sells "coaching" after all, coaching for bodybuilders, amateur and professional. Overall, they just wanted to make Mike look bad and take him down a peg or two, I have no feelings one way or the other. I just put this shite on for background noise while I train.
Most of the talk is about how he has a history of being poorly prepared for his contests and that he coaches himself, and LM was taking him to task for not either A)doing a better job prepping by not getting too fat during his bulks and for B)not hiring a competent coach to prepare him for contests instead of thinking he can do it for himself.
Posted on 1/23/25 at 9:23 am to Tiger Ryno
This whole world just seems like closeted gay dudes or dudes with mental illness in a constant pissing contest. Very weird
Posted on 1/23/25 at 9:43 am to Tiger Ryno
Can't stand Israetel but in his defense its not easy to dial in perfectly for a competition especially when it comes to drying out and getting rid of all the water. One screw up or miscalculation and you are fricked and nothing you do will 'fix' it and it often will make you look worse. He's be better off not competing if he can't get in better contest shape than that.
Posted on 1/23/25 at 10:34 am to DrDenim
The critique of israetel goes far beyond his personal body building contest prep. There umpteen examples using his own videos where he completely contradicts himself and flat out just makes shite up.
Posted on 1/23/25 at 11:11 am to Tiger Ryno
Yeah, I came back to reply now that I've watched the first hour of this video you posted. I don't know who this Solomon guy is, but this is a much more detailed critical journey through different things Mike has spoken about over the years. Oh yeah, these dudes have beef. But, I have to say, even with my un-critical eye, I've seen inconsistencies with the RP youtube channel and what "Dr. Mike" says. It's become a content mill, they're just cranking out so much stuff. I wonder how much thought and effort goes into it these days. My favorite RP videos are years old, I still check in on the channel but most of the newly published videos are unappealing to me or they're shorts and I want something I can start and just play in the background for 45min to an hour and not worry about having to find a new video.
There's the very specific kind of beef that Lyle has with Mike and it's not exactly the same as Doucette's, and I've watched other people critique Dr. Mike and everybody has their own unique bugaboos with him. I wonder how much of it is driven by jealousy and how much is driven by a sincere desire to put forth the best, most factual content, and part of that is criticizing content that doesn't hold up to a standard. It's bound to be some of both, Lyle has always come across to me as a very grounded guy that doesn't suffer fools gladly and also doesn't chase all the popularity and social media cache, so I'm inclined to see him as being driven more by the desire to refute someone else's claims academically because he sees them as being factually incorrect, as opposed to out of jealousy. Doucette seems like he purely has a personal problem with Mike. Either way, these videos are kinda entertaining and enlightening, but like Mingo said, I end up questioning "Who are these guys," who makes a fricking 3 hour video to critique another guy's videos about the best ways to get jacked? That's social media for you. And technically speaking, as far as youtube knows, I watched it, so I guess I can look forward to their algorithm feeding me some more 6 hour videos of "Bobby Quadsteak takes down Dr. Mike and Renaissance Periodization" to get me through my next week of training.
There's the very specific kind of beef that Lyle has with Mike and it's not exactly the same as Doucette's, and I've watched other people critique Dr. Mike and everybody has their own unique bugaboos with him. I wonder how much of it is driven by jealousy and how much is driven by a sincere desire to put forth the best, most factual content, and part of that is criticizing content that doesn't hold up to a standard. It's bound to be some of both, Lyle has always come across to me as a very grounded guy that doesn't suffer fools gladly and also doesn't chase all the popularity and social media cache, so I'm inclined to see him as being driven more by the desire to refute someone else's claims academically because he sees them as being factually incorrect, as opposed to out of jealousy. Doucette seems like he purely has a personal problem with Mike. Either way, these videos are kinda entertaining and enlightening, but like Mingo said, I end up questioning "Who are these guys," who makes a fricking 3 hour video to critique another guy's videos about the best ways to get jacked? That's social media for you. And technically speaking, as far as youtube knows, I watched it, so I guess I can look forward to their algorithm feeding me some more 6 hour videos of "Bobby Quadsteak takes down Dr. Mike and Renaissance Periodization" to get me through my next week of training.
Posted on 1/23/25 at 9:47 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
This whole world just seems like closeted gay dudes or dudes with mental illness in a constant pissing contest.
Because the truth is that getting bigger and stronger is fairly straightforward for 99% of people (i.e., not IFBB pro bodybuilders).
Want to be strong and in good shape? Train and eat well. You know what “well” means unless you’re an actual retard.
Very similar to personal finance. Want to be financially in good shape? Save and invest your money well.
These things are simple, which means they’re boring and there’s not much to talk about. So jackoffs like this have to dig down into the minutiae and manufacture drama for attention which translates to money.
Meatheads had this shite figured out decades ago with their caveman-like mentality. “Me pick up rock, me put down rock. Me get tired. Me eat meat and go sleep.” And they got way more fricking JACKED than these grifting frickwads screaming about, “Studies! Optimal! Science! Frequency! Intensity! Volume! Lengthened Partials! Full ROM! Periodization! 87.5%! RPE!”
This post was edited on 1/23/25 at 9:49 pm
Posted on 1/24/25 at 7:16 am to DrDenim
quote:
(Irealized in the middle of writing this that I actually watched the Greg Doucette/Lyle MacDonald version of this video, but since LM is involved here as well I bet he says the same things, just FYI, I watched a different LM video critiquing Mike Israetel)
I watched most of it while working out in my garage, so I wasn't really "watching it closely" but here's what I recall.....
The main message they want you to take away is that "Dr. Mike" is a bad body builder, as in, he's bad at his own personal contest prep and getting ready to be competitive for the stage. There's also plenty of shite talk about some excuses Mike has made and they provide evidence (Mike lays a lot of blame on someone that did a horrible job applying his contest tanning solution), so it seemed like there was some axe to grind in there as well. Not surprised with any of that and it's all relevant because Mike is the biggest public face of Renaissance Periodization, which is a business that sells "coaching" after all, coaching for bodybuilders, amateur and professional. Overall, they just wanted to make Mike look bad and take him down a peg or two, I have no feelings one way or the other. I just put this shite on for background noise while I train.
Most of the talk is about how he has a history of being poorly prepared for his contests and that he coaches himself, and LM was taking him to task for not either A)doing a better job prepping by not getting too fat during his bulks and for B)not hiring a competent coach to prepare him for contests instead of thinking he can do it for himself.
yea as someone who doesnt like mike and his over the top arrogance....this is rich coming from lyle who's only on the scene because he was the first to blog his experience with Dan Duchaine's Body Opus and then Ultimate Diet.
Lyle is the huge douchebag. Skinny AF and continues to talk shite about him knowing best
with that being said...he isnt wrong about mike at all. And mike needs to realize not everyone wants to be a bodybuilder and look like him
Posted on 1/24/25 at 10:11 am to lsu777
quote:
Lyle is the huge douchebag. Skinny AF and continues to talk shite about him knowing best
I remember when he tried to become a professional speed skater, spent all that time money and effort to realize he isn't a gifted athlete.
He may be the douchiest person I have ever come across.
Posted on 1/24/25 at 10:21 am to boxcarbarney
quote:
He may be the douchiest person I have ever come across.
Lets be honest you basically just described the whole fitness industry especially the YouTube/Instagram ones where its their way or the highway and nothing else works. I hate what 'fitness' has become. I love to train but its not rocket science and complicated like some of these guys try to make it out to be. We need more people like John Meadows.
Posted on 1/24/25 at 10:27 am to lsu777
Back when cyberpump.com had him writing articles in the 90’s I though he was a douchebag
Posted on 1/24/25 at 11:11 am to boxcarbarney
quote:
I remember when he tried to become a professional speed skater, spent all that time money and effort to realize he isn't a gifted athlete.
He may be the douchiest person I have ever come across.
100%
his arrogance is only surpassed by Mike's but at least mike has a reason to be, he has a doctorate, huge company he built and is strong/muscular AF
lyle literally is like 60, weighs 170ish and is like 18-20% BF as he is skinny fat.
and yea i remember his skater days, i was a teen then lol
lyle is knowledgable, especially the biochem part of dieting but no more so than others and he doesnt know shite about lifting.
This post was edited on 1/24/25 at 11:12 am
Posted on 1/24/25 at 11:11 am to lsu777
quote:
he built and is strong/muscular AF
He looks like a fkn clown
Posted on 1/24/25 at 11:18 am to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
He looks like a fkn clown
100%
it really is disgusting, he looks like a midget from willy wonka but muscles everywhere, its fricking disgusting
every time he shits on any exercise its always because...well this other one is better for hypertrophy and if you arent working out for pure hypertrophy, just wasting time...its frankly hilarious he cant imagine someone not wanting to be a bodybuilder and look like him
imo he is one of the worst looking bodybuilders out there and his arrogance sickens me
but at least he is strong and has muscles unlike lyle.
both suck and are douche bags.
Posted on 1/25/25 at 1:05 pm to lsu777
quote:
lyle is knowledgable, especially the biochem part of dieting but no more so than others and he doesnt know shite about lifting.
He used to be an SME on the starting strength forum. Then he got into it with Rip about novice strength gains on a linear progression program, and how they weren’t attainable.
Rip produced video proof. Lyle freaked out and quit the board.
Posted on 1/26/25 at 9:05 am to Tiger Ryno
I think Mike is funny with the videos I've seen, but I'm not knowledged enough to have a real opinion one way or another on his actual advice.
Posted on 1/26/25 at 10:16 am to Jcorye1
quote:
I think Mike is funny with the videos I've seen, but I'm not knowledged enough to have a real opinion one way or another on his actual advice
Mike is fun if you don’t take him too seriously. There was a podcast with him, Jeff Nippard, Greg Nuckols, Menno Henselmans, and Eric Trexel discussing nuances of bulking. Mike was the injection of fun to balance out the serious tone of the discussion. He’s not the be all end all of lifting knowledge, but it’s not like he’s devoid of good information, and he’s entertaining.
Posted on 1/26/25 at 9:09 pm to HVAU
i like Dr. Mike
Lyle is constantly known as a douchebag and has gone after Layne Norton before too. He's had some serious mental health issues.
Dr. Mike's videos are well done and informative IMO
Lyle is constantly known as a douchebag and has gone after Layne Norton before too. He's had some serious mental health issues.
Dr. Mike's videos are well done and informative IMO
Posted on 1/27/25 at 6:45 am to dallastiger55
quote:
i like Dr. Mike
Lyle is constantly known as a douchebag and has gone after Layne Norton before too. He's had some serious mental health issues.
Dr. Mike's videos are well done and informative IMO
yea for sure. Im not a huge mike fan as far as lifting but from all i have scene he seems like an actual good person and funny IRL. lyle is the complete opposite. Everyone who spends any real time with him, hates him within 6 months.
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